AnimeSuki Forums

Witch of Uncertainty · 2010-07-29, 18:20

Finished the episode today.
I loved it, except for some of the love stuff, plus the part with ange was boring most of the time. The amount of time they spoke about love was awful, tbh.

However, Erika's death was incredible. I would hope a chiru-season just to see that walk of hers.
And Beato's closed room was murderous, lol.

EDIT: Thanks again, Witch-hunt, for making this possible.

Jan-Poo · 2010-07-30, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

Oh wow, I completely forgot about that line. That's a pretty blatant hint, isn't it?

But nobody loves Lambda. In fact who here completely trusts what Lambda says?

k//eternal · 2010-07-30, 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

But nobody loves Lambda.

Oh you take that back

Jan-Poo · 2010-07-30, 08:16

Well then I rephrase it

Nobody in the story of Umineko loves Lambda.

Used Can · 2010-07-30, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Nobody in the story of Umineko loves Lambda.

Bern does! (in her own, twisted way, that is)
You do not need Red Text for that, do you?

Renall · 2010-07-30, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

But nobody loves Lambda. In fact who here completely trusts what Lambda says?

I'm trying to recall an instance in which Lambda has ever actually lied.

That isn't to say I find her trustworthy, but she may simply not be the sort of person who tells lies.

ErenselTheJester · 2010-07-30, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

But nobody loves Lambda. In fact who here completely trusts what Lambda says?

She's the Witch of Certainty! Why wouldn't you trust her!?

Jan-Poo · 2010-07-30, 09:15

Nah Bern doesn't love anyone. The LambdaxBern thing is pretty much one sided.

As for Lambda, maybe she never lied directly but she playacted many times. For examples she often acts as a stupid girl or pretends to be clueless about something.

ErenselTheJester · 2010-07-30, 09:37

She hates blondes and yet she's a blonde herself. Its called a character quirk, even though she acts clueless she really isn't, but that doesn't mean that she's a liar. It just means that she ulterior motives, which is what I'm waiting to see.

Anyways, what she said was very truthful. If we do love the author of this story, we take anything he says as truth, white, blue, green, it shouldn't matter what color. That's pretty much the point of what she said.

UsagiTenpura · 2010-07-30, 09:51

LD is almost like the incarnation of the will for interesting twists in the story to occurs. She constantly sides with whatever side has the best ideas that would lead to interesting twists in the story. I don't think she has any moral code such as "never lying" however she tends to be very direct in anything she says.

Oliver · 2010-07-30, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

I don't think she has any moral code such as "never lying" however she tends to be very direct in anything she says.

That's actually one of the most effective ways to be certain of what you want.

Jan-Poo · 2010-07-30, 10:08

I actually never said that Lambda is a liar, what I did was asking who completely trusts what Lambda says.

Renall · 2010-07-30, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I actually never said that Lambda is a liar, what I did was asking who completely trusts what Lambda says.

Well, if she's not a lair, I can trust what she says. I just don't trust her, if that makes any sense.

In other words, she's telling the truth most of the time, and I can trust that. What I can't trust is that she's telling the truth for a good reason, or telling the right truths at the right time.

Raiza Sunozaki · 2010-07-30, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

I'm trying to recall an instance in which Lambda has ever actually lied.

That isn't to say I find her trustworthy, but she may simply not be the sort of person who tells lies.

Lambda doesn't need to lie. She's the kind of person who knows how to crush you by using the cruel and uncomfortable truth. Lying is simply not neccessary to her.
I trust her, partially because I love her character and partially because she's never done anything to betray my trust. Sure she's cruel and manipulating, but that's only to satisfy her own boredom. To me, she's more human than most of the other meta-characters.
So I find her trustworthy. After all, making up all that nonsense about Rokkenjima's past wouldn't be very fun it was all fictional. A simple red (or gold) truth would completely unravel it, causing several important points of her game to spiral into pure fantasy.

Renall · 2010-07-30, 10:35

The issue with Lambda is, she's presented as Bernkastel's foil, and Bernkastel is presented as an ally and (to those familiar with Higurashi) a character whom they associate with another sympathetic protagonist.

However, we quickly see that Bernkastel is lying about her own motives and objectives, that she's lying to Ange, and that she's willing to destroy the integrity of the game if necessary or desirable.

By contrast, Lambda has always been quite open about her objectives. Her words and actions do not deviate from them. Now granted, those objectives are not entirely pleasant. But she's never suggested that they aren't. However, she has shifted in perception from a dangerous and blunt-speaking idiot to a remarkably clever character. But she really hasn't changed at all. The reader is just more keenly aware of the depths of her intellect.

But because she's so much smarter than she makes herself look, I'm very wary of her in general. Bern has never hidden that she's more clever than most people she deals with (or likes to think she is). She's trying to outwit you, but you know that. What's Lambda up to? What's her angle? Why does she keep helping people? It's at the point now where an eternal stalemate seems largely impossible, so why help the people who are both trying to break it (Bern and Battler/Beatrice)? She's still hiding behind a goofy demeanor, but that mask is slipping. The question is, does cruelty or something else lie behind it?

Jan-Poo · 2010-07-30, 10:49

Well I'm not so sure about that. Has Lambda really been honest about her real objectives?

She said that she wanted to keep the game going on indefinitely and that she'd always side with the losing party.

But is that what she actually did in EP5? I have my doubts on that, she basically let Erika win even 'though she had the power to make her lose. She just had to say "Kinzo is dead" in red. She had the power to do that, even more so, she had the duty as the GM of the witch side to destroy the human side theories.

You could say that she was expecting Battler's return, but she really did nothing to help him with that. Battler found out the truth without Lambda's help.

Even so in the end Lambda lost. She said it herself, so either she lied when she said she had lost or she lied when she said she'd do everything in her power to prevent the human side from winning. She really didn't try that much if you ask me.

Renall · 2010-07-30, 10:52

She seems to change between ep4's epilogue and ep5-6. It's like she's a different character, honestly.

Oliver · 2010-07-30, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

What's Lambda up to? What's her angle? Why does she keep helping people? It's at the point now where an eternal stalemate seems largely impossible, so why help the people who are both trying to break it (Bern and Battler/Beatrice)? She's still hiding behind a goofy demeanor, but that mask is slipping. The question is, does cruelty or something else lie behind it?

I have said in the past and I think I will say it yet again: Lambda does it because the unsuccessful manoeuvring for a stalemate actually offered her an opening for an outcome that satisfies her real long-term goal better than an eternal stalemate would.

That is, by continuing to help Battler/Beatrice, she acquires an opportunity to entrap Bernkastel forever, holding her down with something more secure than just Bern's own curiosity.

Like maybe a logic error.

Jan-Poo · 2010-07-30, 10:56

Ah I found evidence of at least one lie from Lambda!

Bern: "What was that just now? A love letter from someone...?"

Lambda: "A fan letter. From the Lambda-chan Fan Club."

Renall · 2010-07-30, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Ah I found evidence of at least one lie from Lambda!

Bern: "What was that just now? A love letter from someone...?"

Lambda: "A fan letter. From the Lambda-chan Fan Club."

What makes you so sure Beatrice isn't the president of that fan club?

2010-07-30, 08:16	Link #3664
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Well then I rephrase it Nobody in the story of Umineko loves Lambda. __________________

2010-07-30, 09:15	Link #3668
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Nah Bern doesn't love anyone. The LambdaxBern thing is pretty much one sided. As for Lambda, maybe she never lied directly but she playacted many times. For examples she often acts as a stupid girl or pretends to be clueless about something. __________________

2010-07-30, 10:08	Link #3672
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	I actually never said that Lambda is a liar, what I did was asking who completely trusts what Lambda says. __________________

2010-07-30, 10:35	Link #3675
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	The issue with Lambda is, she's presented as Bernkastel's foil, and Bernkastel is presented as an ally and (to those familiar with Higurashi) a character whom they associate with another sympathetic protagonist. However, we quickly see that Bernkastel is lying about her own motives and objectives, that she's lying to Ange, and that she's willing to destroy the integrity of the game if necessary or desirable. By contrast, Lambda has always been quite open about her objectives. Her words and actions do not deviate from them. Now granted, those objectives are not entirely pleasant. But she's never suggested that they aren't. However, she has shifted in perception from a dangerous and blunt-speaking idiot to a remarkably clever character. But she really hasn't changed at all. The reader is just more keenly aware of the depths of her intellect. But because she's so much smarter than she makes herself look, I'm very wary of her in general. Bern has never hidden that she's more clever than most people she deals with (or likes to think she is). She's trying to outwit you, but you know that. What's Lambda up to? What's her angle? Why does she keep helping people? It's at the point now where an eternal stalemate seems largely impossible, so why help the people who are both trying to break it (Bern and Battler/Beatrice)? She's still hiding behind a goofy demeanor, but that mask is slipping. The question is, does cruelty or something else lie behind it? __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. This story is a redacted confession. Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists Battler Solves The Logic Error

2010-07-30, 10:49	Link #3676
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Well I'm not so sure about that. Has Lambda really been honest about her real objectives? She said that she wanted to keep the game going on indefinitely and that she'd always side with the losing party. But is that what she actually did in EP5? I have my doubts on that, she basically let Erika win even 'though she had the power to make her lose. She just had to say "Kinzo is dead" in red. She had the power to do that, even more so, she had the duty as the GM of the witch side to destroy the human side theories. You could say that she was expecting Battler's return, but she really did nothing to help him with that. Battler found out the truth without Lambda's help. Even so in the end Lambda lost. She said it herself, so either she lied when she said she had lost or she lied when she said she'd do everything in her power to prevent the human side from winning. She really didn't try that much if you ask me. __________________

2010-07-29, 18:20	Link #3661
Witch of Uncertainty Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010	Finished the episode today. I loved it, except for some of the love stuff, plus the part with ange was boring most of the time. The amount of time they spoke about love was awful, tbh. However, Erika's death was incredible. I would hope a chiru-season just to see that walk of hers. And Beato's closed room was murderous, lol. EDIT: Thanks again, Witch-hunt, for making this possible.

2010-07-30, 09:37	Link #3669
ErenselTheJester Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: In the Meta- World... on Virgillia's bed.	She hates blondes and yet she's a blonde herself. Its called a character quirk, even though she acts clueless she really isn't, but that doesn't mean that she's a liar. It just means that she ulterior motives, which is what I'm waiting to see. Anyways, what she said was very truthful. If we do love the author of this story, we take anything he says as truth, white, blue, green, it shouldn't matter what color. That's pretty much the point of what she said.

2010-07-30, 09:51	Link #3670
UsagiTenpura Artist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Yesterday!	LD is almost like the incarnation of the will for interesting twists in the story to occurs. She constantly sides with whatever side has the best ideas that would lead to interesting twists in the story. I don't think she has any moral code such as "never lying" however she tends to be very direct in anything she says.

2010-07-30, 10:52	Link #3677
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	She seems to change between ep4's epilogue and ep5-6. It's like she's a different character, honestly. __________________ Redaction of the Golden Witch I submit that a murder was committed in 1996. This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986. This story is a redacted confession. Blog (VN DL) - YouTube Playlists Battler Solves The Logic Error

2010-07-30, 10:56	Link #3679
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Ah I found evidence of at least one lie from Lambda! Bern: "What was that just now? A love letter from someone...?" Lambda: "A fan letter. From the Lambda-chan Fan Club." __________________