Character Discussion - Kallen

[Roloko vi Britannia]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

Who thinks that if Kallen would have been part of the Round Knight during the part she was captured the story would have been more interesting?

maybe, but now I want to see fanart of her in a Red Knight of Round uniform

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

Who thinks that if Kallen would have been part of the Round Knight during the part she was captured the story would have been more interesting?

Well she spent her time sitting in a chair when captured so I guess having her as a part of the Rounds might have been more interesting (in fact, even her brushing her teeth might have been more interesting Okay it was used for Kalulu but still. I'd take them being enemies cause Kallen is blackmailed (no brainwash though.) over that without a second thought.)

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Well she spent her time sitting in a chair when captured so I guess having her as a part of the Rounds might have been more interesting (in fact, even her brushing her teeth might have been more interesting Okay it was used for Kalulu but still. I'd take them being enemies cause Kallen is blackmailed (no brainwash though.) over that without a second thought.)

lol what if charles erased her memories to become a Round Knight then I wonder how lelouch will fix this problem.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

lol what if charles erased her memories to become a Round Knight then I wonder how lelouch will fix this problem.

yes
because its not like Lelouch has someone working for him who can undo geass....
oh wait

[Bonzo]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

lol what if charles erased her memories to become a Round Knight then I wonder how lelouch will fix this problem.

Simple, Orange, or death.

[Knightrunner]

lol it will be crazy at first. Kallen would be trashing the blacknights and then everybody will be wondering what happen to Kallen. Lelouch will then start to think and maybe come up with the conclusion that charles erased her memories. Then somehow he needs Orange-boy to get to close enough range to Kallen to geass cancel her. Then she will be like what the f..k why am I wearing these cloths. Then she will get angry and embrassed in the same time. Then the story can keep going.

[Paladinoras]

I am expecting more of a "Holy-shit-you-are-a-traitor-but-why-do-I-feel-like-I-have-known-and-loved-you-before" moment for Kallen and then the power of Geass is obviously inferior to the power of Kalulu, and then she will go back to her senses and kill everybody threatening Lelouch.

Chyeah.

[Lost Cause]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Some people have less respect for our Queen, remember that. So little they stoop to doujinshi(s). From what I recalled from my belief, a person, regardless of gender -- should be respected for their identity and talents.

Both identity and talents being quite abundant in Kallen.

Still.. I wonder what peoples drive is to look at Kallen Doujinshi? She is more then enough to gaze upon while fully dressed, I don't see the problem... Since she is more similiar to Ishtar then anyone else in the series.

Ironic that, because Ishtar caused the death of Enkidu, Gilgamesh's best friend. (Do you see the links? )

For me the Kallen Doujinshis' made Kallen seem a little more "human" especially in Bonzo's work and it satisfied a need to put a happy ending (though painful for her more than Lelouch) to an already great series. As for the nudity and sex portrayed therein,well that is only natural when a man loves a woman or vice versa.

[SonOfHeaven]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

Who thinks that if Kallen would have been part of the Round Knight during the part she was captured the story would have been more interesting?

I was with the people who thought Kallen's father could come to visit her during the airing of the series. Who knows what could have happened. Better that than KOR members talking to her and nothing really important happening for Kallen's character. Except the talks with Nunnally.

[Betteroffer]

I found it amusing that somewhere along the way, Kallen gained enough insight into Lelouch for her to understand the scope of his ZR plan despite all the times he has seemingly betrayed her, while Nunally, who should know Lelouch better than anyone, was apparently only able to figure it out due to having psychic powers and having the whole plan basically laid out for her in her mind.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

I found it amusing that somewhere along the way, Kallen gained enough insight into Lelouch for her to understand the scope of his ZR plan despite all the times he has seemingly betrayed her, while Nunally, who should know Lelouch better than anyone, was apparently only able to figure it out due to having psychic powers and having the whole plan basically laid out for her in her mind.

Let me guess...power of Kalulu love?

Seriously though, that always did kinda bother me.

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Let me guess...power of Kalulu love?

Seriously though, that always did kinda bother me.

Much as I would love to say yes, I'm not that delusional...yet. I blame it on the writing (surprise, surprise).

I really think it would have made more sense for Nunally to just look at Lelouch smile as he lay dying, look up at ZeroZaku and notice his hand faintly trembling, and for her to just put it all together from there. It produces the same result, yet doesn't rely on that pointless palm reading.

I wonder if the palm reading would qualify as a Big Lipped Aligator Moment since while it was technically needed for Nunally to put everything together, the end would have actually made more sense without it. In fact, both times the palm reading occurs, an explanation that didn't involve it would have made more sense.

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

I found it amusing that somewhere along the way, Kallen gained enough insight into Lelouch for her to understand the scope of his ZR plan despite all the times he has seemingly betrayed her, while Nunally, who should know Lelouch better than anyone, was apparently only able to figure it out due to having psychic powers and having the whole plan basically laid out for her in her mind.

I kind of interpret that when she touched lelouch hand she only figured out that he was lieing the whole time throghout the zero requim. The mind reading thing could just be a bunch of flashbacks for the audience to show nan. figured out that Lelouch is lieing the whole time.

With Kallen's personal knowledge of lelouch, seeing Zero all of a sudden and have great insight she can figure out what zero requim is.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

Much as I would love to say yes, I'm not that delusional...yet. I blame it on the writing (surprise, surprise).

I really think it would have made more sense for Nunally to just look at Lelouch smile as he lay dying, look up at ZeroZaku and notice his hand faintly trembling, and for her to just put it all together from there. It produces the same result, yet doesn't rely on that pointless palm reading.

I wonder if the palm reading would qualify as a Big Lipped Aligator Moment since while it was technically needed for Nunally to put everything together, the end would have actually made more sense without it. In fact, both times the palm reading occurs, an explanation that didn't involve it would have made more sense.

Yes, yes, and yes. Honestly, up until that point it was kind of implied that Nunnally's "palm reading" worked as sort of a lie detector, which I could buy, not a way of looking into a person's soul and memories. But yet again, the writers have to fudge it up by giving her inexplicable C.C.-like powers, when it's not even really necessary.

And if it really was just her finding out that Lelouch had been lying the whole time as Knightrunner says, well...that still seems kinda out there. Again, it's not really necessary since Nunnally probably could've figured it out on her own, and I don't know how she's supposed to figure out Lelouch has been lying about the whole thing just by holding his hand. Seems that she couldn't do that unless she really was looking throuh his soul and memories.

But this ain't the Nunnally thread (not that we have one) so I'll conclude by saying that I agree that it's really not that farfetched for Kallen to figure it out on her own, but it is kinda silly that Nunnally had to tap into Lelouch's mind to figure it out.

[bladeofdarkness]

nunnaly never knew Lelouch realy personality during his "zero" lifestyle
the "become evil to defeat evil" and the "we must shad more blood so that the blood already shad would not be wasted" was stuff that she know about in her brother
for all she knew, he became zero for revenge and power, because she never saw the REAL zero behind the rhetorics

kallen on the other hand, WAS exposed to that particular side of him
as well as knowing about his tendency to use crazy theatrics to get people to react (many people knew "zero" kallen is one of the few people who know the man behind the mask)
so when she saw that zero suddenly shows up, she figures it out
its not unlikely, given both her talk with suzaku and her knowledge of Lelouch, that she'd figure out that Lelouch planned the whole thing

[Bonzo]

In fact, I used something of similar to justify partially the Kallen's obsession to protect him (in R2R) the power of geass awakened the dark side of zero and his revenge.
The Lelouch's evil part becomed so strong like to have a "separated identity", like Zero.

When Lelouch becomed blind and the geass "destroyed", Kallen was sure his evil side was dead too, one of the motivation she protected him and her choices.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Bonzo

In fact, I used something of similar to justify partially the Kallen's obsession to protect him (in R2R) the power of geass awakened the dark side of zero and his revenge.
The Lelouch's evil part becomed so strong like to have a "separated identity", like Zero.

When Lelouch becomed blind and the geass "destroyed", Kallen was sure his evil side was dead too, one of the motivation she protected him and her choices.

Sounds like Death Note.

Of course, everyone is free to write or draw what they want, but if you mean to say that this is how it might have been in the anime, I strongly disagree.
Lelouch decided to crush Britannia right after the invasion of Japan, when he was still a child. He said himself that he had planned to do it anyway, even without the Geass.

Lelouch's motives were never black or white, but grey. Selfish because he wanted revenge so badly, selfless because he wished for a gentle world - for Nunnally, he claims, but episode 5 as well as his "maybe I only used her as an excuse" line show that he, like Suzaku, had seen the world's injustice and was appalled - so appalled that he set out to change it.
He made a lot of mistakes, they both did, but you don't need a supernatural influence for that if life screws with your psyche at any chance it gets.

Lelouch was never evil in the sense Yagami Light was evil once he gained his Death Note. And personally, I like his darker, destructive side - without it, he'd be a lot less interesting.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Sounds like Death Note.

Of course, everyone is free to write or draw what they want, but if you mean to say that this is how it might have been in the anime, I strongly disagree.
Lelouch decided to crush Britannia right after the invasion of Japan, when he was still a child. He said himself that he had planned to do it anyway, even without the Geass.

Lelouch's motives were never black or white, but grey. Selfish because he wanted revenge so badly, selfless because he wished for a gentle world - for Nunnally, he claims, but episode 5 as well as his "maybe I only used her as an excuse" line show that he, like Suzaku, had seen the world's injustice and was appalled - so appalled that he set out to change it.
He made a lot of mistakes, they both did, but you don't need a supernatural influence for that if life screws with your psyche at any chance it gets.

Lelouch was never evil in the sense Yagami Light was evil once he gained his Death Note. And personally, I like his darker, destructive side - without it, he'd be a lot less interesting.

I fully agree with that.

While some might argue that Light began as a grey character as well, his, and Lelouch's direction ended up being the complete opposites. While it's fair calling Emperor Lelouch devil, we know that in fact, it wasn't the case. While Light really crossed the lin between good and bad.

Lelouch's "evil" side was never evil for me. And this side was part of him anyway, I don't think it might have ever gone out completely. that is, unless you brainwash the boy.

[Paladinoras]

Lelouch was never evil...and even if he was, it was all calculated.

[Bonzo]

I agreed with you, the big difference is the starring of death note, decided to become a sort executioner thanks his power and that power gived him the possibility to be totally no under suspiction, and that possibility evolved him in a very evil character (it's my theory, because I never seen death note), he hasn't remorse because he's convinced to be the right one.

Yes, Lelouch hate his family from he was child, but when the geass gived him power, his hate exploded like a bomb and he started to make strategical evil plans, he could reach the same results in a more less evil/mad way, for this I written the "hypothesis" of geass awakened his dark side and that part of himself evolved like his power, he had to reach his objective, who cares if he used people like toilet paper? every way to defeat Britannia and change the world (this is just Kallen thought).
If you think, when Lelouch geassed his father with the order "die!" try to imagine what could be the result if the order was "you're my slave!", a totally new story/ending could be did, he was so much under his dark side influence don't think good strategies.

At last yes, he wasn't a real evil character and he felt all the guilt feelings because his good side never stopped to be present, but he couldn't stop himself anymore.
Self-destruct himself was the only way to stop everything, I kept that line in the story too, he isn't dead just by chance.