Toradora! - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[RogerOsk]

Well I just watched it (Coalguys are COAL), and that was a great episode.

And I don't know why everyone was complaining about Ryuuji for. He just thinks it's an abandonment issue and sees the Dad trying his best to make amends, it's not like he knows any better, and with Taiga going along with it too, he doesn't see anything wrong. And the real reason he fought with Minorin was to protect Taiga, because he thinks she would have interfered with her new family. But I'll admit, he is still wrong about it, but at least he has an opinion about the damn thing instead of being Generic passive unemotional male lead.

Ami was awesome this episode. That crazed look on her face when everybody said that Ami was the cutest was great. It closing-up on Ami gripping his neck during her talk was cool too, I saw it as a way for her to try and get close to him without trying any tricks or giving him fanservice with her ditzy personality. The whole scene was great. Ami is awesome.

[wistfulloner]

Agreed. Ryuji shouldn't be completely at wrong just because he sticks to his principles. Although he got punked by Taiga's dad at the end and realized his mistake, it's all because he wanted father and daughter to be reunited and happy.

Ryuji got angry with Minori as he felt that her ideas weren't for Taiga's best interests as a best friend. Not because he wanted to force his opinion on others.

[Bordix]

9.

Thanks for the subs coalguys
Well, I find it interesting ryuuji quarreling like that, since you only see that rarely. The teacher was funny going berserk like that, when they were about to cut the (her)string of fate XD
also, I found Haruta's voice and expression funny when he was announcing Ami and Taiga's fight and never forget Ami's closeups

[Haru~]

My God. All the Minori X Ryuuji development in the last few episodes just destroyed by one single incident. That was a tense conversation.
Ryuuji got to open his eyes that instead of making Taiga happy, he just hurts her more.
I'll take Minorin side this time. Ryuuji puts too much trust to Taiga's father. Even though he haven't know Taiga's story about it.
And about Ami X Ryuuji. I'm realizing some of her points why Minorin and Ryuuji can't be in a relationship.
Good intense episode. Gave it a 9.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by Voitan

"-before you, but not far away."

I'm dense as lead when it comes to poetic flowery words. What does this part mean?

Somehow she's ahead of him on the same "path" what? How so? And why?

Ami means she won't be clinging (following) up to him but she will be close when needed.

She is not a sunshine girl, after all most of her smiles are fake ones, but she is someone who is close when you need.

For me somehow Ami feels like the best character of the series. Which something considering that all other characters (except for Kitamura) are pretty impressive by themselves.

[Mandrake]

Minorin always seemed to me to be an extremely intuative person when it comes to other people. That she blew up about taiga's father seems theres much more hidden there

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by rave_master16

My God. All the Minori X Ryuuji development in the last few episodes just destroyed by one single incident. That was a tense conversation.
Ryuuji got to open his eyes that instead of making Taiga happy, he just hurts her more.
I'll take Minorin side this time. Ryuuji puts too much trust to Taiga's father. Even though he haven't know Taiga's story about it.
And about Ami X Ryuuji. I'm realizing some of her points why Minorin and Ryuuji can't be in a relationship.
Good intense episode. Gave it a 9.

Ryuuji doesn't have much fault in this situation: he's doing what he thinks is best for Taiga and from a logical POV he's right. Children should stay with their parents if it's possible: Ryuuji knows this even better because he lost his father. He wants Taiga to avoid the pain he's been through so he's pushing her towards her father. If Taiga has some SERIOUS reason to stay away from her father she should have explained it to Ruiiji imho. I think the main problem is Minori's reaction: it's really a weird reaction... she's reacting much worse than Taiga herself and this can be explained only with something VERY BAD Minorin is hiding.
To me it seems Minorin has a personal grudge against Taiga's father and not a simple disliking in him because of he hurt Taiga or she had problems with her own parents in the past.
The only possible explanation which is coming to my mind now is that Taiga's father raped Minorin sometime in the past... that would explain such a personal grudge.

Originally Posted by Mandrake

Minorin always seemed to me to be an extremely intuative person when it comes to other people. That she blew up about taiga's father seems theres much more hidden there

Yes I agree with you there, but I had the impression it was a personal grudge rather than a generic grudge against Taiga's father.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by ipernorris

The only possible explanation which is coming to my mind now is that Taiga's father raped Minorin sometime in the past... that would explain such a personal grudge.

Whoa, slow down a little. You are looking too much into things.

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Whoa, slow down a little. You are looking too much into things.

Yeah I hope so, but Minorin's grudge seems a personal one to me, and not a generic one... perhaps writers overdid it, it's always possible.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Originally Posted by Voitan

"-before you, but not far away."

I'm dense as lead when it comes to poetic flowery words. What does this part mean?

Somehow she's ahead of him on the same "path" what? How so? And why?

My take is:

She will look out for him with best interests of him in her heart, an indirect hint that she likes him (platonic or not, you decide yourself). She will be advisor and protector of him, Minorin will be his Utopian dream and Taiga will be his conscience/humanity aspect.

It also could be an admission that she knew that Ryuji did not see her as more than a friend, hence her comment that she will be walking in front of him but not too far as a reminder to him of what is around.

Expected from Ami.

My summary for ep 11 and 12 : The path of destruction is often paved with good intentions.

[Haru~]

Originally Posted by ipernorris

To me it seems Minorin has a personal grudge against Taiga's father and not a simple disliking in him because of he hurt Taiga or she had problems with her own parents in the past.
The only possible explanation which is coming to my mind now is that Taiga's father raped Minorin sometime in the past... that would explain such a personal grudge.

That I suppose too much. Rape? My god.
Realistically, Taiga suffered so much after being abandoned and Minorin have seen her sufferings enough to have a personal grudge against the irresponsible father. Being a best friend.

[frubam]

Excellent ep as always. Ryuuji getting mad at Minorin AND his mom, not to mention Minori herself getting that mad, is something I never expected to see. It shadows that Ryuuji's got some personal issues in all of this, and not just for the sake of Taiga.

And Kitamura once again shows that he's no best friend of Ryuuji's. I loved the way Ami tried to help him after his spat with Minorin. She really seemed like the best friend, putting her arm over his shoulders and getting real comfortable. During that moment, it's the first time I've really thought of anyone in this show as a serious couple.

If last weeks animation was crappy because they were saving a bit of budget for this episode, I'm glad they did. There were some very fluent movements in this episode, particularly the Ryu/Taiga/Kita moment, and the wrestling scenes.

And I'll agree that Taiga in ponytail just looks cute !

[stormy001_M1A2]

Well for once Ryuji did react back (the part he drew cat whiskers on Taiga's face as retaliation)

[Nukerjsr]

Pretty good episode for the most part. Funny and gives you a lot of thought. I really laughed more at the whole crepe and indirect kiss statement than the issue with Yuri-sensei. Kitamura helped a lot with the humor in this episode. I do know that there is a Japanese thing with a red line, but I can't remember what it is exactly...it has to deal with romance or life in some way.

I have to side with Ryuuji on this because he does have good intentions with this whole issue. He sees the positives in Taiga's father and he does believe he wants to change. And it's not like the dad seems to have any sneaky intentions or anything. What's making me annoyed about this is that while he is making Taiga and Minori tense, they aren't even telling him what Taiga's dad DID that makes him so evil. They are just saying he's horrible and bad. Ryuuji is a logical guy, you have to give him a reasonable response.

This was a terrible episode for Minori. We do see her mask slipping from time to time whenever Ryuuji looks at her. (Not to mention she looked terrifying during that play. Holy crap.) Ryuuji wasn't afraid of her hating him either since he really was serious about the issue. It does kind of crush any bonds they might of shared, but I think that's a good thing. What I don't get about Minori is that while she does have a reason for hating Taiga's father, it still makes me wonder: How did Taiga and Minori become friends in the first place?

Ami really made the episode nice because of how she was sweet to Ryuuji and managed to handle everything without being arrogant. Like Ryuuji stated, she has really changed. And she does look rather cute with those twin-tails, but the appropriate lighting a suppose can make anyone cute. She was just great.

[Caster13]

"I want to change too."

And it looks as if Ryuuji will get his chance. A strong character like Ryuuji who's always subtly and overtly sticking to his principles to do the good thing, it can take a lot to jar him into realizing that he needs to step back and take a look at things objectively. The argument with Minori and Ya-chan hints that Ryuuji doesn't know as much about Taiga's father as he would like to think. No doubt, the conclusion of this story arc will force a lot of Ryuuji.

Ami's really surprised me and I couldn't be happier. She's changed a lot. She's really true to herself now around Ryuuji. She won't be like Minori and she won't be like Taiga, but she'll still be near him when she can. She seems to have accepted Ryuuji's offer of friendship and has slipped smoothly into the role of a friend. If she's going to get closer to Ryuuji, she seems to have decided that it'll be her honest self that does.

I'm really worried about Taiga though. Her father's not exactly taking baby steps in getting their lives back together. He's been taking up all of her free time after school, too. If the story does finish with yet another betrayal, I wonder what kind of a wreck she'll be in and whether or not Ryuuji or anybody else can help her up from it.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

This was a terrible episode for Minori. We do see her mask slipping from time to time whenever Ryuuji looks at her. (Not to mention she looked terrifying during that play. Holy crap.) Ryuuji wasn't afraid of her hating him either since he really was serious about the issue. It does kind of crush any bonds they might of shared, but I think that's a good thing. What I don't get about Minori is that while she does have a reason for hating Taiga's father, it still makes me wonder: How did Taiga and Minori become friends in the first place?

Not to worry, with Minori's good nature and Ryuji's crush on her, it's likely this will just be a short drizzle on a otherwise great day.

Must be that Minori is that friendly someone who can handle the palmtop tiger...

[MetaFire]

I don't think Minori had any past with Taiga's dad. I'm inclined to believe she's just really good at reading situations.

[ipernorris]

Originally Posted by rave_master16

That I suppose too much. Rape? My god.
Realistically, Taiga suffered so much after being abandoned and Minorin have seen her sufferings enough to have a personal grudge against the irresponsible father. Being a best friend.

As I've stated I think Taiga's reaction is hostile to her father at the beginning, but then she seems to be more friendly with him. Anyway her reaction was nowhere near Minorin's one and I think that's plain weird: it seems like Taiga's father did something to her that others don't know, included Taiga.
Perhaps the writers put too much stress on Minorin's reaction otherwise, if it's intended, then something really bad happened imho.

[mavarek]

I think all of you who believe Ryuuji is not at fault are wrong. His mom met Taiga's dad for how long? Not even a minute, and she came to the conclusion that Taiga's father doesn't really hold other people's best interest at heart. Ryuuji was with him for an entire lunch and failed to notice this because he was blinded by his daddy issues.

Granted the meetings were under entirely different circumstances, but I think that people never really change, and if you're observant enough, you can tell what their true nature is when they slip up (i.e. Kawashima Ami).

Then again, I'm not sure why Taiga herself doesn't stop this whole mess. You can go out with someone you hate for the sake of a friend, but surely you'd stop before it completely destroys your life... Maybe it's due to Minori pushing her (assumed) parental issues onto Taiga

That would be sort of a shocker (not)

[typhonsentra]

Anyone notice a certain familiar costume?