Danganronpa 3: Future Arc - Episode 12 Discussion [END] / Poll

[SilverSyko]

Hm, so Ryota ended up becoming the final antagonist of the show albeit in a different sort of way. This really isn't about hope vs despair anymore, it's a race to stop Ryota from erasing the humanity from every person on the planet and becoming mind-controlled husks.

So the killing game was set up by Tengan all to force Ryota's hand in broadcasting the Hope Video to the world huh? Even though Ryota wasn't even supposed to show up? Honestly this part has me somewhat confused but whatever.

Looking forward the Hope Episode finale. Is that Hajime/Izuru I saw at the end there? I think so.~

[Nvis]

When is this side hope episode?

Even Monaca got hit by the Hope Video.

Maybe Class 77 will get hit by same video and return to normal.

[stray]

So... I don't really get the butthurt over Chisa; even if the killing game wasn't her that was an amazing long con. Credit where its due.

Brainwashing is bad, kids. But... FF really likes borrowing from the despair playbook. Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Tengan was the white despair. I totally let that one slip past me. I wonder just how long its been since he lost his damn mind. And... Mitarai is trash, but this should have become apparent over the last few episodes. FFS he was pissing and moaning about Kirigiri wanting to spend her last moments with Naegi. Not ok.

Who gave Hajime directions to the island?
When is the 13th branch head gonna show up?

Hope side is Thursday BTW; it takes the place of Despair 12.

[tuckersister]

Looking forward in seeing Makoto and Hajime in the last episode. Hajime fight scenes would be awesome. I wouldn't put pass Hajime undoing the brainwashing (he IS the Ultimate Hope after all).

[bonsobon]

So first off Yukizome gives the USB's containing the brainwashing videos to Tengan. It's safe to assume that she was hoping he would watch them and fall into despair, but it's clear he didn't do that.

My speculation as to what happened is that as time went on and things didn't get better Tengan grew more desperate to find a solution. He probably also saw the Future Foundation splintering into factions as was hinted at throughout the series and was powerless to do anything about it. As the chairman he probably felt responsible for not doing more to combat both problems.

That's when he remembers the brain washing videos and Mitarai's talent (which Yukizome told him about when she handed the USB's over). If Mitarai could make a video to brainwash someone into believing in despair, he could also make one to brainwash someone into believing in hope as well. Perhaps he told Mitarai what he wanted him to make and then made a plan to force him into using it; hence the killing game. Tengan could also clean out the Future Foundation of its factions or remove it completely. After all if everyone was brainwashed into believing in hope there would be no need for such an organisation anymore. That's the best I have for now.

Also both Yukizome and Junko confirmed dead. No more stupid theories about them being alive somehow and thank goodness for that.

[DragonXX]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

I think someone stated in an earlier thread it was said that they would connect. - As I noted in the post though I would have gone for Chisa Culprit anyhow;


Personal opinion: When clues are given out doensn't really matter, as long as it is before the conclusion.
The overall mysteries were usually solvable prior to the trial though; Sometimes to a despairing obviousness other times it was hidden a lot better; The best example here Junko turning out to be the culprit in DR 1 - you got a small hint at the very beginning that got ignored or forgotten by many.
I for example ingored it at the point it was given because I was like 'Nice jab towards the model industry and people actually thinking they are not photoshopped'




I will agree to disagree on the bolded part - it was presented as a 'who did it' thing. It was definitely more of a mystery than some other stuff that actually sells itself as detective mystery on Kindle.
At the very leastt it made people want to think about the mystery, which is more than some more straight out detective mysteries do.

Edit: To rephrase it a bit:
My issue with this ending is that it comes off as a complete 'wtf?!' rather than a 'Well it turnes out I was wrong' - Proper or not its even arguable if the mystery was solvable at all with that kind of uhm... nose pulled motive.
Even Naegi or Asahina being the culprits would have been less strange than this.
But I guess we at least agree on the ending being bad writing due to Tengan's motive coming pretty much out of the air, especially when he could have abandoned everything when Mitari appeared.

Did you think of the chance that maybe there was no poison in Mitari thing in the first place but Mitari would never go against it because if this show had show one thing he is the biggest coward in this series and we have seen enough that if he was the one closest to the TV the Brainwashing would not of work on him anyway.

Also have you forgot that Tengan was the mastermind behind The Ulimate Hope Project in the first place. Do you ready thing someone who would make a project like that wouldn't do a Killing Game to Make the Ulimate Hope. This whole thing was make to make Mitari become what Tengan think is the Ulimate Hope and there was also a chance that Tengan was betting on Kyousuke to finish what he started did you forget that Kyousuke was thinking the same way Mitari is right now which destorying despair.

I do think there may still be one final twist in the next episode yet and that Monokoma may still be a Wild Card because Monokoma did tell Naegi that this game is both of there ending and I can see why because it someways you could say that both Danganronpa 1 and 2 were a fight between Naegi and Monokoma/Junko.

You could say that this whole time Tengan is making a Batman Gambits or Xanatos Gambit or Thanatos Gambit or even a mix of the three.

[Dengar]

Looks like the truth of the plot turns out to be completely ass pull free... I was scared that this wouldn't happen.

And before people get hung over this whole "Tengan did it for hope.", remember that people can be wrong, and this is not limited to 'despair', whatever that even means in the grand scheme of things.

And now, time for Dengar's Crazy Hypothesis time.


Maybe, just maybe, a lot of these events were set in motion by Kamukura long ago, before he had his own memories erased. Not down to the specifics, but like, the dominoes were set up but it was uncertain which lines would fall and which ones would fluke. Basically he was trying to test whether or not despair really was "the best" as Enoshima claims.

Perhaps the reason that Komaeda came down to Enoshima's lair while carrying a gun also had something to do with Kamukura's machinations?

[shmaster]

I am disappointed they didn't make Tengan as one of the despair, and has his motive be by achieving despair through engulfing the world with hope.

As Junko said, the world will be very despairfuly despair if this world has no despair left.

[Homura7]

Subs are out.

There are still a few missing pieces that I expect are going to be answered in the final episode.

Like, who was the one that was talking through Monokuma. As far as I can recall, that was a LIVE. Not only Monokuma talked directly to Naegi, he also hacked Gekkogahara with little to no trouble.

Now to talk about Tengan.

As we can see when the episode starts, it was Chisa who brought to Tengan the USB containing the Student Council Mutual Killing video and the Monokuma Gloomy Sunday recording. Chisa lied when Tengan asked her if she did watch the contents of the USB. And from the looks of it, it would seem she was already scheming to destroy the FF.

Then Tengan some time later came up with his own plan, that also appeared to have a similar purpose. He ordered the construction of an underground facility below the HQ, he ordered to install the monitors, then arranged a meeting with all the members except Mitarai. He intentionally wanted to leave him out of this and have him watch the Killing Game from the sidelines. In the end this ultimately would provoke Mitarai into using his talent and force him broadcast a video filled with Hope that would erase all Despair via brainwash.

But...

The plan got sabotaged. For whatever unknown reason, Mitarai ended up coming to a meeting he hadn't been invited, much to the shock of Tengan. And soon as Mitarai entered the room, the sleeping gas ball rolled.

[Gilly]

If Tengan wanted Mitarai's hope video, there were easier ways to obtain it. Worst motive for a killing game we've seen. Let's see how the Hope episode resolves it all. Maybe the world will actually be brainwashed with hope, and that'll be the setup for the new Danganronpa game.

[Dengar]

Uhhhh, I don't think anyone is saying that Tengan's plan made any sense. Not even the show itself.

Originally Posted by Alpha Knight

Like, who was the one that was talking through Monokuma. As far as I can recall, that was a LIVE. Not only Monokuma talked directly to Naegi, he also hacked Gekkogahara with little to no trouble.

I hate repeating myself... But why do people keep forgetting about that girl that commands an army of monokumas. And owns a robot, with a wheel chair that got "hacked" by the culprit.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I hate repeating myself... But why do people keep forgetting about that girl that commands an army of monokumas. And owns a robot, with a wheel chair that got "hacked" by the culprit.

Speaking of Monaca her role is so confusing... she seems like an accomplice but was basically nothing but helpful (if an ass) in the end. And it doesn't really make sense that Tengan would have been connected to her. Did Chisa actually know about Tengan's plot and call her in?

As far as Tengan's motive DR doesn't spend much time focusing on the despair world but at the beginning I think Gozu noted terrorist attacks were the lowest they had been in a long time. And all the Remnants were accounted for except Monaca and Chisa. Tengan had no real justification to hopewash the world.

[com_gwp]

Regarding Monoca, she's a red herring planted by Kodaka to throw people off and tie in the AE narrative, except they didn't use her position as effectively as I hoped. Not to mention the very extraneous AE episode contributed almost nothing besides fanservice, and didn't deserve an entire episode to itself.

I am a tab underwhelmed about how things ended up, and I think Tengan's plan is dumb as bricks, but I also think this was about as good they could've done, as far as not letting the narrative go completely off kilter (it's up for contention if the shark had already jumped around episode 8). It also tied back to the fact that Hope's Peak was a fucking disaster (the running theme of the show) while pushing the DR2/AE running narrative that the Hope and Despair concepts are both fucking silly. There wasn't some crazy big unsuspecting twist in the end, as we were all fearing (and maybe hoping) for, but maybe the show didn't need one.

I waiting to see what goes down in that last episode, before I really lay out some of my thoughts regarding the characters. I have a very strong inkling a certain someone might reappear, especially in the wake of this episode, but well, over the course of the show, I've been proven wrong plenty of times (Chiaki's death being the big one I misread) so we'll see.

[Kopi]

What if Mitarai accidentally slept near a monitor and got himself killed? While his participation was unintended, Tengen has the capacity to prevent that due to him being the mastermind but he went and got himself killed instead. Did he really bet everything on Kirigiri to ensure Mitarai's survival? Pretty risky imo. Also there were the Juzo, Seiko, Ruruka and Izayoi factors to consider too.

In addition, what's the deal with giving Kirigiri's 4 turns to investigate? Did Tengen foresee that she won't be able to solve this killing game within the time limit and with her death, further strengthen Mitarai's resolve?

[Homura7]

Tengan's intentions were extreme but genuine. However, that doesn't justify how he put them in motion. For starters, his actions when the Future Foundation was under attack made no sense and are in contradiction with what he originally planned out. If he wanted to leave Mitarai out of this, even when he unexpectedly attended the meeting, he should have first made sure to get Mitarai out of the Meeting Room and secure him, and the proceed with the plan.

This is of course, assuming it was Tengan who rolled the sleeping gas ball. And it should be evident to any of us it wasn't him who did that.

To put it short: Tengan had a plan he wanted to carry out. But his entire scheme was hijacked. Someone called Mitarai to the meeting he wasn't invited to and dragged him into taking part in the Killing Game, thwarting Tengan's plans. The traitor also made sure Mitarai wouldn't be able to turn things in his favor by setting him up with a NG that forbid him precisely of using his talent like Tengan wanted him to, rendering him helpless. And though Monaca denied having any involvement in the whole thing, Gekkogahara was an android all along. Therefore she couldn't have been trapped in except by design.

And that's the one unsolved mistery we still haven't got an answer to. Side:Hope oughts to clear this out.

There's one thing that bugs me, though. Chisa actually provided Tengan with two USB: One contained the Despair Inducing video, while the other one had the Suicide Inducing video.

Is it safe to say Naegi didn't watch the same video as the other victims? Gozu, Seiko and Ruruka seemed to show signs of struggle, as if they were trying to snap out of the effects of the brainwash.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Alpha Knight

Is it safe to say Naegi didn't watch the same video as the other victims? Gozu, Seiko and Ruruka seemed to show signs of struggle, as if they were trying to snap out of the effects of the brainwash.

Naegi was tied up. He was also watching the video with the intent to solve the mystery. Not a different video, just different context.

Originally Posted by com_gwp

Regarding Monoca, she's a red herring planted by Kodaka to throw people off and tie in the AE narrative, except they didn't use her position as effectively as I hoped. Not to mention the very extraneous AE episode contributed almost nothing besides fanservice, and didn't deserve an entire episode to itself.

I... didn't realize complaining about the UDG episode was still a thing. It was nice to see them all again when Mitarai turned on the hope microwave anyway, aside from being brainwashed and all.

[Homura7]

Originally Posted by stray

Naegi was tied up. He was also watching the video with the intent to solve the mystery. Not a different video, just different context.

But at the beggining we do see Chisa giving Tengan both the Suicide Inducing and the Despair Inducing video. We did get to see the former through Naegi, but what about the other one?

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by DragonXX

Did you think of the chance that maybe there was no poison in Mitari thing in the first place but Mitari would never go against it because if this show had show one thing he is the biggest coward in this series and we have seen enough that if he was the one closest to the TV the Brainwashing would not of work on him anyway.

Also have you forgot that Tengan was the mastermind behind The Ulimate Hope Project in the first place. Do you ready thing someone who would make a project like that wouldn't do a Killing Game to Make the Ulimate Hope. This whole thing was make to make Mitari become what Tengan think is the Ulimate Hope and there was also a chance that Tengan was betting on Kyousuke to finish what he started did you forget that Kyousuke was thinking the same way Mitari is right now which destorying despair.

Yeah you are right. I mean its not like there was a killing game going on where someone could have decided to attack him... oh wait...

Originally Posted by Alpha Knight

Tengan's intentions were extreme but genuine. However, that doesn't justify how he put them in motion. For starters, his actions when the Future Foundation was under attack made no sense and are in contradiction with what he originally planned out. If he wanted to leave Mitarai out of this, even when he unexpectedly attended the meeting, he should have first made sure to get Mitarai out of the Meeting Room and secure him, and the proceed with the plan.

This is of course, assuming it was Tengan who rolled the sleeping gas ball. And it should be evident to any of us it wasn't him who did that.

To put it short: Tengan had a plan he wanted to carry out. But his entire scheme was hijacked. Someone called Mitarai to the meeting he wasn't invited to and dragged him into taking part in the Killing Game, thwarting Tengan's plans. The traitor also made sure Mitarai wouldn't be able to turn things in his favor by setting him up with a NG that forbid him precisely of using his talent like Tengan wanted him to, rendering him helpless. And though Monaca denied having any involvement in the whole thing, Gekkogahara was an android all along. Therefore she couldn't have been trapped in except by design.

And that's the one unsolved mistery we still haven't got an answer to. Side:Hope oughts to clear this out.

There's one thing that bugs me, though. Chisa actually provided Tengan with two USB: One contained the Despair Inducing video, while the other one had the Suicide Inducing video.

Is it safe to say Naegi didn't watch the same video as the other victims? Gozu, Seiko and Ruruka seemed to show signs of struggle, as if they were trying to snap out of the effects of the brainwash.

I personally still don't trust those flashbacks for various reasons - Chisa be dead or not asspull aside. - Her getting brainwashed at this point seems unreal - especially the way she happiliy jumped up there.
On the off chance that this isn't an animation screwup someone had to place her there as a single chair is simply nopt enough to reach the chandelier with her height.

The pictures are another thing - Who the heck placed them there?
And while I fear that they will go with 'Oh she just carried them around for the lolz' as explaination they still look planted.

As for the counter turns out they were really counting Hagakure in there - as the other explaination could have been 'Chisa is alive and the counter actually went down for Miaya' As this has been stated as false by now Hagakure counting seems solid.

And no, tbh I doubt Naegi watched the same video the others did - except they wanted to degrade his character on purpose.

So for the hijaking culprits I'd guess either Kamakura, Chisa (whether she is now dead doesn't maatter at all for this) or AI Junko.

What remains is to see what they plan to do with Cure W - In any case its inclusion was a terrible idea. The way it was shown its not worth to call it a Red Hering (It was shown pretty soon that it can't bring back dead) while suddenly reviving someone anyhow would make the already bad writing of Tengan did it even worse as it would make all the deaths there meaningless.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Alpha Knight

But at the beggining we do see Chisa giving Tengan both the Suicide Inducing and the Despair Inducing video. We did get to see the former through Naegi, but what about the other one?

Inception isn't enough for you? And didn't we see it enough in Despair side?

I sort of doubt Tengan ever fully trusted Yukizome after that. Especially considering she was the first victim.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by stray

Inception isn't enough for you? And didn't we see it enough in Despair side?

I sort of doubt Tengan ever fully trusted Yukizome after that. Especially considering she was the first victim.

The victims were chosen randomly thorugh being closest to the monitor. Chisa having been there was mere chance.

Btw there is something that kinda throws me off - Why the heck did Mitari show the video to Asahina and not to Naegi or both? Makes really little sense, except he had a suspicion Naegi would be immune.