Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Yan3242

Wonder what is the common language in this show by lore, when that guy who help mika setup his implant and booting the gundam, he also cant spell the gundam name (baro? What?), is it because its in alphabet or he also cant read properly

He more than likely can't read very well, or at least outlandish words like "Barbatos". Mika himself is illiterate.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by QSTraderDG86

All fucking fine and dandy if that was her role...but don't stick her in the gundam princess slot then!

Having a wimpy princess is like having a wimpy masked man. Something's very wrong if that's the case!

Maskmen must be skilled-badasses and have a considerable authority in a Gundam series since they are the antagonists of the Gundam pilots who must fight them head on. Princesses however, can go in various ways (eg. Sayla & Relena are so very different, but I appreciate them both). I can appreciate variety and different take on these so-called “princesses” and I seem to have quite a wide range of tolerance for these type of characters. So I’m cool with it. If you don’t, that’s the more reason for us to go “agree to disagree” and drop this subject already for the good of this IBO thread.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by QSTraderDG86

As for the topic of the masked rival...the masked rival is part of what makes Gundam...Gundam. If your Gundam series doesn't have a badass masked rival, you're doing something very wrong. Char was awesome. Zechs was awesome. Rau was awesome. Neo...not as awesome, but still pretty cool. Mr. Bushido was pretty meh, and so was Gundam 00 in general. Basically, it seems how good a Gundam series is can be measured in proportion to how awesome its masked rival is.

And yet everyone hates SEED/DESTINY (at least most of the english speaking community)

Wing, outside of the nostalgia most english speaking fans have for it (me included) was overall average (despite Zechs being the best/closest Char clone of all the AU)

00 was pretty well received overall in both Japan and among the english fan base. And to top it off THE WHOLE FIRST SEASON (WHICH WAS THE BEST RECEIVED PART) WENT COMPLETELY WITHOUT A CHAR CLONE. Mr. Bushido was a badass pilot (duh, because he was Graham), but a terrible Char Clone



I suggest you think some things through before posting. This series can do perfectly fine, if not amazing, without a Char Clone showing up



I also suggest you re-evaluate the "Princess" part too (theres simply too many female main characters that are literally not princesses which somehow still get this title, it makes no sense), Zeta did extremely well for not having a....oh wait, we had that Mineva dupe who did absolutely nothing in the show. Gundam X did not have a princess and its a really good underrated show. Build Fighters doesn't have a princess, yet its extremely popular for other reasons

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Skye629

And yet everyone hates SEED/DESTINY (at least most of the english speaking community)

Don't speak for everyone. I love SEED, and while Destiny was sub-par I like that too. Also SEED was my first intro to Gundam ever and it's what got me into the franchise, and I'm pretty sure it was the same for many others too. SEED was extremely popular in it's day, and it's still one of the most remembered by the "English speaking community" since it's one that had a lot of exposure in the West compared to many of the others. Even today, Kira, Athrun, and Lacus are some of the most well remembered Gundam characters, and many new characters are compared to them, for good or bad.

While a Gundam show doesn't need a Char Clone, I think it's pretty much expected by now. 00 may not have had a good one, but it had one. It's pretty much tradition at this point.

Personally, I think that this series will get one, too, but they are going to properly set it up. The Char Clone is usually a rival or antagonist for the MC, and Mika isn't that known at all out there in the world yet. We just have to see how they're going to do it.

[lubczyk]

Many attempts for automony lead to bloodshed. Kudelia is ignorant in the thought that she can just stride to Earth, make some simple speeches and agreements and the Chryse Autonomous Region will become independent with no bloodshed. I like how like the show isn't sucking up to her idealism. I really like how Mika, Orga and Kudelia are introspective. Shoko from Valvrave, Lacus from Gundam Seed, Releena from Gundam Wing and Asseylum from Aldnoah.Zero. Too many times, idealized young women are shown to be blameless simply due to their nature of being naive and peace-seeking. Being idealistic and good-intentioned doesn't remove responsibility from the fallout of your actions.

TLR - I really like how characters are introspective and not idealized archetypes. The characters appear to have room to grow and mature. I'm hoping for some great characters arcs and growth.

[bigdeath]

To be fair to Kudelia, we have seen in real life history peaceful revolutions. The doctrine of non-violence has had a significant impact in modern history. While it has never been completely bloodless, its a valid tactic.

Originally Posted by lubczyk

Too many times, idealized young women are shown to be blameless simply due to their nature of being naive and peace-seeking. Being idealistic and good-intentioned doesn't remove responsibility from the fallout of your actions.

Except when Kudelia tried to take responsibility for getting these kids involved in a fight, she was rebuffed by Mika. Basically being told she was irrelevant is not the same as being held responsible for the fallout of her idealism. Not even close.

On the other hand, it seems unlikely we shall see the absurdity of a gundam pilot avoiding killing anyone in battle in this show. Iron Blooded Orphans seems to be going for a gritty realism thats contrary to such extreme idealism.

Though I will agree it is refershing to see characters that think about their actions. We can hope this leads to character growth. Who knows, maybe Mika will learn social skills one day......I doubt it though. Stoic gundam pilots are forever stoic. lol

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Don't speak for everyone. I love SEED, and while Destiny was sub-par I like that too. Also SEED was my first intro to Gundam ever and it's what got me into the franchise, and I'm pretty sure it was the same for many others too. SEED was extremely popular in it's day, and it's still one of the most remembered by the "English speaking community" since it's one that had a lot of exposure in the West compared to many of the others. Even today, Kira, Athrun, and Lacus are some of the most well remembered Gundam characters, and many new characters are compared to them, for good or bad.

Don't get me wrong I like SEED, and DESTINY had its moments. Im just going off the general consensus I see from the various Gundam sites/sources I visit. There's tons of hate/dislike on both for various reasons (sometimes rightly so and sometimes misplaced or exaggerated)

[Twi]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

Many attempts for automony lead to bloodshed. Kudelia is ignorant in the thought that she can just stride to Earth, make some simple speeches and agreements and the Chryse Autonomous Region will become independent with no bloodshed. I like how like the show isn't sucking up to her idealism. I really like how Mika, Orga and Kudelia are introspective. Shoko from Valvrave, Lacus from Gundam Seed, Releena from Gundam Wing and Asseylum from Aldnoah.Zero. Too many times, idealized young women are shown to be blameless simply due to their nature of being naive and peace-seeking. Being idealistic and good-intentioned doesn't remove responsibility from the fallout of your actions.

TLR - I really like how characters are introspective and not idealized archetypes. The characters appear to have room to grow and mature. I'm hoping for some great characters arcs and growth.

She's not ignorant, she's naive. Big difference. Like bigdeath said, she tried to take responsibility. She blames herself because they did come after her, which is true enough, but CGS accepted the job and her father sold her out. She was naive in the sense that she didn't comprehend how Mika would see it specifically, but not ignorant of the deaths and the weight they carry. She was naive in the sense that she treated Mika as an equal, but he points out that they aren't truly equal (leaving aside she's royalty and important, she's also their client and decidedly more important than expendable mercenaries).

She knows what the situation is like on her planet and isn't stupid enough to think this will be resolved without fighting either. She didn't tell them not to defend themselves either, but she's focused on dealing with the issue of poverty, which is the reason children have to get work at a PMC. Getting to the peace conference is a step in the right direction, but she's very much big picture. In short, she's looking to get a personal introspective into their lives rather than remain clueless, Mika is just blunt about it.

And Shoko was not blameless. I blame her plenty for the parts where she did screw-up, like getting Jewbro killed after selling her pilots out and believing that the president would go through with his promise. The students were dumb for electing someone whose argument was YOLO in the first place, and the pilots do call her out for selling them out. Lacus was... well, I usually ignored her sub-plot because I found it wanting, but Cagalli wasn't blameless either. She had plenty of screw ups in Destiny.

But I agree on the introspective points.

[dragon1412]

Yeah, i agree with Twi, i like Kudelia much more than other is because while she is Naive, she is aware of it and she is far from ignorance. She clearly knew the children situations, and that is exactly why she request Mika's group in the 1st place, she is fundamentally different from Shoko, who " let's throw a big party while we are chased by multiple world power", just the fact she realized she got betrayed by her own father already show that she is resourceful and capable of analyze the situations.

Asseylum and Shoko is different, SHoko is exactly a symbol of incompetent leader that's only popular. She never assumed far enough and selling out their own pilots which keeping their lives just because of her own tantrum. Asseylum is a true case of ignorance, though not nearly as bad as Shoko, since Asseylum do at least try to make progress on her own at the end, it's just that her action aren't really relevant to the story.

[Patriot's Blade]

Originally Posted by Yan3242

Mask seems silly considering the setting, although i can see that flamboyant blonde guy wearing one though.

Full mask/helmet like lelouch from code geass maybe?

but we already got examples like Carozzo Ronah 'Iron Mask' that is his self punishment for smearing his family name, also a control interface for his MA, a space helmet, & the same thing that saved him from getting head shot

others include Chronicle Asher (for his allergies) & Schwarz Bruder (being a German ninja Darth Vader spoiler alert) though both of them looked more like cloth ski masks, then there's ND-HD from SEED Versus Astrays that looked like wearing a motor sports helmet that makes him look like a cyclops,

my initial reaction at Crank's when he's fighting the Gundam is "dude, you are piloting a machine that is 300 years old!!, which is no match for the present day technology that is the Gra........ FUUUUUUUUU"

well Biscuit & his sisters continues the tradition of Gundam with weird character names, courtesy of Quattro Vagina (TM) unless Char was also trolling everybody at that time , the Innovators who basically are Saturday morning cartoon villains, & of recent being G-Raco, with one of them being the Megafauna's helms woman named Steer, its like her parents knew what job she'll be destined with when she grew up unless its her own name that motivates her to get such job in the fist place

i think the humor here is well written compared to G-Reco where whe have to listen to Bellri's constant yelping of eh!? eeeeehhhhh!!!? where i am not sure is considered funny or the joke's just tad too outdated because of Tomino's.

[Wandering Soul]

Kudelia is naive but not completely ignorant. She has no problem acknowledging that she doesn't know much but she wants to fix her lack of knowledge. She acknowledged she played a role in their deaths as the attack wouldn't have happened if it were not for her. Mika just really didn't see it the same way and saw her as trying to make his friends deaths about her. She shows that she is willing to learn and she is also quite smart as she immediately suspected her father.

Shoko was far from blameless. The students that suffered under her presidency are just as fault though. Asseylum did the best she could in a bad situation. Not much to say about Relena and Lacus though.

[Dark Wing]

Well even if the princess has her heart in the right place. She will still have to work on getting the support of the very people she's trying to help. It's just going to take some time to build the trust and seeing how she's only been with the orphans for like a day it's no wonder the process seems slow.

Oh and about what looks like an upcoming coup. It's wonder of the adults don't see it coming. I mean they treated these kids like dirt for so long did they really think the orphans wouldn't strike back at some point?

[lubczyk]

That brings up an interesting question. Is Kudelia activity involved in the Chryse independence movement, or has the Chryse Independence movement just taken up her image as a symbol for their own benefit? From what I see for now, her personal intentions are to improve the conditions, especially for those of children, in Chryse. Maybe I missed it, I didn't see anything about her being personally pro-separatist.

All these different factions with different agenda's make me giddy!

^ BTW, thanks everyone for clearing up the difference between naive and ignorant. I appreciate it. It was a mistake on my part.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

That brings up an interesting question. Is Kudelia activity involved in the Chryse independence movement, or has the Chryse Independence movement just taken up her image as a symbol for their own benefit? From what I see for now, her personal intentions are to improve the conditions, especially for those of children, in Chryse. Maybe I missed it, I didn't see anything about her being personally pro-separatist.

Maybe it's a bit of both?

She might not be deeply involved with the leadership but they use her as the public face because she gets more publicity?

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Maybe it's a bit of both?

She might not be deeply involved with the leadership but they use her as the public face because she gets more publicity?

Well from what I understand she was the most well known person in the independence movement and didn't really ask to be the leader. Being the daughter to the leader of Mars colonial government it's no wonder people pushed her to the status of figure head.

[Twi]

Well, her father is currently trying to martyr her so that tells you she's either a threat to him personally or he doesn't see her worth as person more than an immortalized figure. The fact that Coral wants all evidence of the battle erased pretty much marks the entire operation as illegal to begin with. That was an unsanctioned attack against PMC that hadn't been actively against them nor conspiring against them.

[Dark Wing]

To add to the above. I have an idea why they're trying to kill her in the first place.

The guy in the episode said her death was suppose to spark a war for for independence in the people. However the question is why would anyone working for an organization tied to earth want that?

Think about it if Earth has to send forces to stomp out the rebellion and regain control of the colony. That means having an even stronger presents there and having to send supplies, money, and other forms of aid. Earth will in a sense have to help rebuild the Mars economy.

You see where our little figure head has slept up is that she waned to go to earth and ask for a peaceful separation. If somehow convince the Earth leader to sign off on this Mars would be independent but still in same shape as crappy state unless she also hopes to negotiate for trade too. But why would you trade with someone who has nothing to offer because it.was said back in episode 1 Mars has no resources of value left so no one goes there anymore.

[Twi]

Coral made it clear why he wanted it--more funding and resources. In the first episode, it's made clear by the inspector that Earth's economy is heavily tied to the colonies. The fact that the Mars Branch of Gjall hasn't quelled the push for independence peacefully is the reason an inspector is being sent out, but they can't just put guns to everyone's heads to do it because other colonies would see that as a reason to start fighting back.

She's seen as the leader of the independence movement and admired by the rebel faction, but she isn't a part of them. However, if she gets killed in battle, it would make the hatred toward Earthlings greater and they'd attack more, giving him more support to work with and a reason to do it. They'd have a legitimate reason to start dropping in more weapons and her father would likely collapse like a house of cards to their whims, content with being a figurehead as long as he kept his wealth.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by bigdeath

Except when Kudelia tried to take responsibility for getting these kids involved in a fight, she was rebuffed by Mika. Basically being told she was irrelevant is not the same as being held responsible for the fallout of her idealism. Not even close.

Mika was right. His comrades died because of her, but they didn't die for her sake. There is a difference between willingly dying to protect someone and has no choice but to fight against death. That's a good answer to what she's saying, unless you expect he to take her hand and blame everything on her, which doesn't even solve anything in a first place.

[mickbis]

I start to like Mikazuki as a main hero now after watching episode 2
he does seem like more intelligent version of Heero and Setsuna
the way he point back to Kudelia and how he respond to Orga request prove that he isn't only a guy of less emotion protagonist but really a sensible guy inside
Kudelia is also really interesting, she is not only a clueless naive idealistic princess but also know her own flaw

As for Orga it start to show even more now how much skill he has as a commander and all round capable guy
but in order to survive both Mika and Orga need each other to compensate for what they really lack.

cannot wait for Episode 3
A band of iron blood child soldier seeking a place where they truly belong... while unwillingly pull into the conflict between Mar and Earth
Now that really interesting