How good was Zabuzza really?

[prolifik]

If you compare Zabuzza with some of the other villains that the characters have faced, where would you rank him?

I have the feeling that if Kakashi would have fought him with no distractions, he would have won much faster than he did originally. To me, Zabuzza was strong but not strong enough to defeat him one on one.

[Hir0]

I reckon Zabuza is better than kakashi

Kakashi won only because he was playing around waay to much.

Kakashi would have died and lost his head if he didnt play around. But of course, he is no where near as good as Kisame

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Hir0

I reckon Zabuza is better than kakashi

Kakashi won only because he was playing around waay to much.

Kakashi would have died and lost his head if he didnt play around. But of course, he is no where near as good as Kisame

I'd say if it werent for the Sharingan...Kakashi would've definetly died.
But if you check out the strenght of the current characters then guys like Zabuza seem like ordenairy jounins and that Gaara & Kimmimaro would've easily killed him. And probably Kyuubi 1 tail & Sasuke could've aswell.

[xXionx]

Originally Posted by Hir0

I reckon Zabuza is better than kakashi

Kakashi won only because he was playing around waay to much.

Kakashi would have died and lost his head if he didnt play around. But of course, he is no where near as good as Kisame

Thats the reason why Kakashi did win...because he was weaker...-_-
Kakashi had to look after his team, so he couldn't really fight with his full potential...
and i don't get it, why people always come with "IF" if that and that would ve been happen blabla...it didn't happen so its obvious that Kakashi is/was Stronger than Zabuza...and btw. he was really stronger - rewatch episode 18-19 he punches, kicks him with no effort.

[Kyu410]

Well Zabuza was stronger than Kakashi, Zabuza only lost because Kakashi was smarter, more tactical, and had sharingan. Without any of that especially sharingan he would've died.

IMO Zabuza would be put around Gai's level and under Kimmimaro.

[Ichimaru]

Originally Posted by Kyu410

Well Zabuza was stronger than Kakashi, Zabuza only lost because Kakashi was smarter, more tactical, and had sharingan. Without any of that especially sharingan he would've died.

IMO Zabuza would be put around Gai's level and under Kimmimaro.

so far gai hasnt shown much besides taijutsu, and i dont think gai is above kimis lvl

gai can open as many gates as he wishes, kimi is immune to physical impact/damage

[maus]

If Haku wouldn't have interfered, Zabuza would've died after the first fight.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Zabuza is obviously one of the weaker major enemies since he was the first to be shown. He is an elite jounin, but not a match for Kakashi or Gai in a straight fight. If I had to compare him to a Konoha jounin, I'd say he's at around Asuma's level.

[DeDe]

^ True. It's the Dragonball and DBZ effect.

Raditz < Nappa/Vegeta < Ginyu Force < Freeze < Androids < Cell < Majin Buu

Enemies are only as strong as they need to be for that moment. They always become more powerful as the series progresses. Remember when the Sound Three were a big threat for a brief moment in the Forest of Death?

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by maus

If Haku wouldn't have interfered, Zabuza would've died after the first fight.

I agree. He definitely luck'd out on that fight.

[itachi29al]

It is hard to say. In the first battle people are saying he would of loss if not for Haku but Kakashi would have died in the water prison if not for his team. But then again he was protecting his team.
The second battle we learned that overall kakashi was better the only reason he did nt beat him sooner was because he coudnt see through the mist and was not trained in the silent kill, that is why he summoned his dogs. Also one Rakiri would have killed him. And once the mist was gone he started to beat him to a pulp. And that was while protecting Hakus body.
So in coclusion Kakshi is better then Zabuza butZabuza is almost as good.

[Kyu410]

Originally Posted by itachi29al

It is hard to say. In the first battle people are saying he would of loss if not for Haku but Kakashi would have died in the water prison if not for his team. But then again he was protecting his team.
The second battle we learned that overall kakashi was better the only reason he did nt beat him sooner was because he coudnt see through the mist and was not trained in the silent kill, that is why he summoned his dogs. Also one Rakiri would have killed him. And once the mist was gone he started to beat him to a pulp. And that was while protecting Hakus body.
So in coclusion Kakshi is better then Zabuza butZabuza is almost as good.

Actually sharingan is able to predict attacks. He would've died if it hadn't been for sharingan.

If Zabuza had sharingan to it would be pretty equal between them. Also if I remember carefully Kakashi used sharingan in both fights with Zabuza. And Kakashi only uses sharingan in dangerous fights. A topic like this can be debatable IMO.

[Magus]

Hmmm. I'd like to be optimistic and say Zabuza could at least give Kisame a very good fight. Devil Zabuza is supposed to be somewhat of a small legend.

[tkdtiger]

I believe that he mentions that the mist helps to block the sharingan's view, but he managed to find Zabuza due to the blood and using his dogs. The sharingan was nec. for him to use chidori affectively...

[Kyu410]

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

I believe that he mentions that the mist helps to block the sharingan's view, but he managed to find Zabuza due to the blood and using his dogs. The sharingan was nec. for him to use chidori affectively...

But that still points out that sharingan gave him an advantage. Kakashi could have been killed in the first fight without sharingan. He copied Zabuza's water dragon jutsu to reverse the blow.

[Rahan]

No he didn't need the Sharingan to use Chidori in this fight.
Sharingan is only needed to dodge the counter attack, but Zabuza was already immobilized by Kakashi's dogs, so he couldn't counter at all.

When Kakashi felt Kyuubi Naruto's chakra, he decided to end the fight and the fight indeed ended a few seconds later. He totally owned Zabuza

Kakashi would have lost the first time because he screwed up majorly though. Jumping into the water while fighting a ninja specialized in water jutsus look like something only Naruto would do. (now that we know how water techniques actually require water to work unless you are called Nidaime or Kisame).

Originally Posted by Magus

Hmmm. I'd like to be optimistic and say Zabuza could at least give Kisame a very good fight. Devil Zabuza is supposed to be somewhat of a small legend.

I actually think Kakashi was fooling around and showing off to Sasuke his sharingan until it was too late. The second fight was not even a fight. Kakashi totally owned Zabuza despite being unable to use his sharingan.
It's kinda ridiculous the dogs needed Kakashi's blood to locate someone 10m away while they can locate Sasuke on quite a long range despite not smelling him for 3 years.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Rahan

No he didn't need the Sharingan to use Chidori in this fight.
Sharingan is only needed to dodge the counter attack, but Zabuza was already immobilized by Kakashi's dogs, so he couldn't counter at all.

When Kakashi felt Kyuubi Naruto's chakra, he decided to end the fight and the fight indeed ended a few seconds later. He totally owned Zabuza

Kakashi would have lost the first time because he screwed up majorly though. Jumping into the water while fighting a ninja specialized in water jutsus look like something only Naruto would do. (now that we know how water techniques actually require water to work unless you are called Nidaime or Kisame).

Ditto on the parts about the fight on the bridge. As for the first fight, what Kakashi did was kinda amateur but he did say that it had been a long time since he had fought such a dangerous opponent and he didn't think that Zabuza was that strong.

It's kinda ridiculous the dogs needed Kakashi's blood to locate someone 10m away while they can locate Sasuke on quite a long range despite not smelling him for 3 years.

I guess they needed a scent they were familiar with, there were other people present nearby. Kakashi probably figured that someone else with the scent of his blood would alert the dogs that this was the enemy and the person to target.

[Kyu410]

Actually I remember that Kakashi needed sharingan to accurately do Chidori because it is a fast paced move. And the reason he can do it while covering with his headband is because his sharingan is always active.

This fight was decided on intelligence level. Zabuza was stronger but Kakashi was smarter so Kakashi won. You know what they say brains beats brawn.

If Kakashi could win against Zabuza in a one on one without handicaps he wouldn't have had to use sharingan in both fights. And plus Zabuza has to lug that huge sword around all the time. If he didn't have it he would've been faster than Kakashi.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Kyu410

Actually I remember that Kakashi needed sharingan to accurately do Chidori because it is a fast paced move. And the reason he can do it while covering with his headband is because his sharingan is always active.

Sharingan doesn't have anything to do with activating Chidori. Kakashi could perform Chidori before he had Sharingan. Like Rahan said,

Sharingan is only needed to dodge the counter attack, but Zabuza was already immobilized by Kakashi's dogs, so he couldn't counter at all.

So Sharingan or not Zabuza would've been killed by that attack.

This fight was decided on intelligence level. Zabuza was stronger but Kakashi was smarter so Kakashi won. You know what they say brains beats brawn

No. This was a battle of wits, Zabuza was fighting with ninjutsu and stategy (he was in fact trying to avoid a head-on battle) just the same as Kakashi and Kakashi outwitted him. When Zabuza did try to use brute strength in the second fight, Kakashi easily handled him.

If Kakashi could win against Zabuza in a one on one without handicaps he wouldn't have had to use sharingan in both fights. And plus Zabuza has to lug that huge sword around all the time. If he didn't have it he would've been faster than Kakashi.

In the second fight, Kakashi's Sharingan was all but useless b/c of the mist and he still won despite that having the Sharingan activated was draining his chakra. But why argue that the Sharingan is a handicap anyway? That's like saying Neji, Naruto and Sasuke who all have powers that they can choose not to use in battles are using handicaps. That's part of their abilites, and the same goes for Kakashi regardless of whether he was born with it or not.

[prolifik]

Originally Posted by Kyu410

Actually I remember that Kakashi needed sharingan to accurately do Chidori because it is a fast paced move. And the reason he can do it while covering with his headband is because his sharingan is always active.

This fight was decided on intelligence level. Zabuza was stronger but Kakashi was smarter so Kakashi won. You know what they say brains beats brawn.

If Kakashi could win against Zabuza in a one on one without handicaps he wouldn't have had to use sharingan in both fights. And plus Zabuza has to lug that huge sword around all the time. If he didn't have it he would've been faster than Kakashi.

But the Sharingan is part of Kakashi's arsenal. If he wouldn't have used it, of course it would have been a much harder fight. It is the same thing with Zabuzza. If he thought that the sword would hinder his fighting ability, he wouldn't be lugging it around everywhere.