General Gun Thread

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by Jeffry2009

@Mr Hat and Clogs: IF you talked about his video:-

One Word: SICK.

new concept round upon seeing this: Kraken and Dragonfire

Kraken - delayed impact fuse that sets off a small explosive. much like the Space Marine's bolter round. think of the possibilities of a Kraken 7.62x51 NATO can do!

Dragonfire - HP and napalm tipped. kill it with fire v2.0

[Vexx]

FPSRussian is amusing... but he's shooting into a reservoir / water tank (common in ranching regions). Possible issues: 1) lead chunks into drinking water(?). 2) projectiles skimming water surface and flying much farther than planned.

Dunno.. I was always taught that was a somewhat bad idea.

OTOH, the Glock add-on was pretty absurd looking but I was a bit impressed with his ability to keep the muzzle on target (auto-pistols are notoriously difficult to keep aimed. Novices tend to let it fly up and not-so-novice types end up over-compensating into the ground).

[Renegade334]

FPSRussia has quite a good aim - he's already demonstrated some trick shots and it's obvious he's had plenty of practice (he's also into airsoft, btw).

About the Glock 17 (I thought it was the Glock 18 that was full-auto, but I haven't kept track of Glock's entire catalogue of models and variants) -there's also the CMAG double ammo drum to put into account: its weight could possibly reduce the muzzle rise somewhat. Somewhat (not towards the end when it gets lighter, though).

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Those double drum things, ever used in practical situations? Like... I dunno, police raid, or military? Or are they more for just for fun and showing off? Or do PMC's use em?

On the larger guns, like say the auto-shotgun or the SAW, they kinda make sense but pistols it seems a little impractical (although useful for an automatic pistol).

[Renegade334]

Nope, the weight might be a liability and cause a decrease of maneuverability due to weight AND volume, especially if you have to go indoors. It should displace your center of gravity forwards, whereas on rifles the problem is mitigated by the ability to use the other arm under the handguard to provide better stability and movement.

I know the Glock 18 has a long mag (a 33-rounder, I think), but the CMAG is overkill and is probably meant for the wow factor. On the other hand, Beta CMAGs make more sense for IARs (Infantry Automatic Rifles), which are supposed to bridge the gap between an assault rifle and a machine gun - they provide large volumes of uninterrupted fire, perfect for their intended role.

I'm not sure the IAR concept (which is almost exclusive to the USMC) is a gamechanger, though I do see some advantages for MOUT/CQB/room clearing, where a SAW-wielding heavy gunner would be disadvantaged, and the ability to pack a common magazine model for both the squad's rifles and its IARs (the SAW can use 30r STANAGs thanks to a backup mag well, but it's not very practical, from what I heard through the grapevine).

[Lost Cause]

Actually you can find a 100 round "double drum" clip for the M-16, I believe it's called the "BETA Mag"?
And that video IS SICK!!

[Renegade334]

It's the Beta C-MAG.

And it's even available for the MP5 (9x19mm) and H&K G3 (7.62x51mm). It's useful for the military, who need large and uninterrupted volumes of fire, yes, but for the civilians...I don't think so.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

It's the Beta C-MAG.

And it's even available for the MP5 (9x19mm) and H&K G3 (7.62x51mm). It's useful for the military, who need large and uninterrupted volumes of fire, yes, but for the civilians...I don't think so.

I do think so.
In fact I own something quite similar for the FAL in .308/7.62 NATO.
http://betaco.com/products.asp?rid=21

Brownells sells Beta C-mags for civilian use in the USA and has since this mag was first made available in the 1980s.

http://www.brownells.com/1/1/596-ar-...a-company.html

As long as Police are using these types of weapons and magazines there is no reason "civilians" (in quotes because of Title 10 Section 311) should not have them since they are civilians also.

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by Renegade334

It's the Beta C-MAG.

And it's even available for the MP5 (9x19mm) and H&K G3 (7.62x51mm). It's useful for the military, who need large and uninterrupted volumes of fire, yes, but for the civilians...I don't think so.

wait, didnt that thing add weight to the gun and the rumored jamming problem? and isnt this thing used in the now unavailable MG36?

btw whats the outcome of a red dot and holographic combo? I never did try that out (when I used an AR15 before, the only thing they'd put is a reflex sight) and some of my airsoft buddies are usually using combos.

been meaning to know what the Elcan sight that I once saw on an M240B and an MK46.

does anyone know where to buy a magazine attachment that attaches the magazines instead of taping them jungle style?

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

wait, didnt that thing add weight to the gun and the rumored jamming problem? and isnt this thing used in the now unavailable MG36?

I'll answer that ZekeR, if that's alright.
The weight on the FAL is horrible.
The C-Mag for the FAL is more of a novelty item (like the Calico 950 pistol) than it is practical.
For FALs the 20 round mag is the absolute best, both in weight and in balance of the weapon.
However, that doesn't stop FAL enthusiasts like myself from acquiring the more impractical accesories for our rifles.
I've got the Trilux scope, which I find pretty darn accurate on the FAL (even a side-folder).

Not sure about the Elcan sight.
Personally I'd like to get my hands on one, but woah they're really expensive!

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

I'll answer that ZekeR, if that's alright.
The weight on the FAL is horrible.
The C-Mag for the FAL is more of a novelty item (like the Calico 950 pistol) than it is practical.
For FALs the 20 round mag is the absolute best, both in weight and in balance of the weapon.
However, that doesn't stop FAL enthusiasts like myself from acquiring the more impractical accesories for our rifles.
I've got the Trilux scope, which I find pretty darn accurate on the FAL (even a side-folder).

Not sure about the Elcan sight.
Personally I'd like to get my hands on one, but woah they're really expensive!

why would anyone put a drum magazine on an high performance rifle such as the FAL that KICKS like an ass (the donkey, not the butt)? the recoil of the 7.62x51/.308 is something, but adding a C mag on that thing... GAWD.

my uncle is already having a hard time atm finding a 416 upper (yet he still doesnt tell me why he wants one) because the AR in his house has got him bored.

well Aimpoint's Comp M2 is already enough for RDS but I wonder if the Elcan itself is a red dot....

oh yeah... SUSAT sight... DO NOT WANT.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by ZeKeR

why would anyone put a drum magazine on an high performance rifle such as the FAL that KICKS like an ass (the donkey, not the butt)? the recoil of the 7.62x51/.308 is something, but adding a C mag on that thing... GAWD.

my uncle is already having a hard time atm finding a 416 upper (yet he still doesnt tell me why he wants one) because the AR in his house has got him bored.

well Aimpoint's Comp M2 is already enough for RDS but I wonder if the Elcan itself is a red dot....

oh yeah... SUSAT sight... DO NOT WANT.

Actually the added weight of the Beta mag is enough to reduce the recoil, but a bipod is a must.
Fortunately the DSA-58's come with a folding bipod that fits nicely on the handguard.
But yeah, the Beta-Mag drum justs looks cool and that's about it for functionality.

Recoil isn't that bad with a standard FAL (that has the rubber buttpad).
The side-folder will start to make your shoulder sore after a few mags.
However, having used an M1 Garand for my CMP competition days (many moons ago) I must say the FAL is more comfortable than that.
Although, I am thinking of trading it in for an AR-15 clone (I'm nearly 40 years old and not quite as rugged as I used to be ).

Wow, a .416 upper?
That's not easy to find AFAIK.
Tactlite sells them, but good gawd they're expensive!!!

http://www.tactilite.com/index.php?p...mart&Itemid=29

That combo always reminds me of the old German FG-42:

[Lost Cause]

I have an AR (Colt) and while I enjoy shooting it (light recoil, plenty of bullets thanks to living on a military base), I do find it a pain because you must clean it after every outing! I'm looking into getting one of those piston uppers for it, so it doesn't need all that TLC!
What are your opinions on the piston system guys?

[GundamFan0083]

Honestly Lost Cause, if you looking to replace the upper on your AR-15 might I suggest trading in your AR for a Sig 556.

I have a buddy whose got one and if I go .223/5.56 NATO this is the weapon I'm trading my FAL in for.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...6-classic.aspx

EDIT: let me add that the "Classic" is a civilian only semi-auto version of the military rifle and it DOES NOT USE Sig clips it USES AR-15 magazine which means all you would have to do is exchange rifles rather than get a whole new set up with accessories and ammo.

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

Honestly Lost Cause, if you looking to replace the upper on your AR-15 might I suggest trading in your AR for a Sig 556.

I have a buddy whose got one and if I go .223/5.56 NATO this is the weapon I'm trading my FAL in for.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...6-classic.aspx

EDIT: let me add that the "Classic" is a civilian only semi-auto version of the military rifle and it DOES NOT USE Sig clips it USES AR-15 magazine which means all you would have to do is exchange rifles rather than get a whole new set up with accessories and ammo.

hoho.... the SG550 I handled before was quite something. I really am uncomfortable with it (not the gun overall) with the lower receiver... it feels... odd since I was usually accustomed to the lower receiver feeding STANAG.

[Renegade334]

Triple M16/M4 taken out to outdoors firing range and tested.

It seems that it was so heavy and cumbersome the only way to use it was in a pintle-mounted configuration, as an emplaced weapon. But it worked.


BTW, that earlier discussion about the multiple-barrel rifle...wasn't it the Soviet AO-63 dual-barrel concept rifle (remarkable for its 5,000rpm rate of fire), which eventually gave birth to the AN94 Abakan?

[Lost Cause]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

Honestly Lost Cause, if you looking to replace the upper on your AR-15 might I suggest trading in your AR for a Sig 556.

I have a buddy whose got one and if I go .223/5.56 NATO this is the weapon I'm trading my FAL in for.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProdu...6-classic.aspx

EDIT: let me add that the "Classic" is a civilian only semi-auto version of the military rifle and it DOES NOT USE Sig clips it USES AR-15 magazine which means all you would have to do is exchange rifles rather than get a whole new set up with accessories and ammo.

SWEET! Thanks GundamFan0083!!

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

SWEET! Thanks GundamFan0083!!

You are most welcome Lost Cause.

[Stiletto]

couldn't find anything on my [img/] search. anyone post info on Vintorez dragunovs yet? I can't find anything like specs on the interweb.

[ZeKeR]

Originally Posted by Recite

couldn't find anything on my [img/] search. anyone post info on Vintorez dragunovs yet? I can't find anything like specs on the interweb.

is there a civilian Vintorez sniper rifle? I dunno...


also lulz'd at my friend who thought the 5.7 in the P90 was "WEAK".

btw people, the SL8 is still alive in the markets.... right?