Mari Okada discussion

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

So honestly, I have no frigging clue how Okada got the job, but hey, after AGE, Recognista in G, and Build Fighters, I'd take ANY change to Gundam.

So you’re one those who despise GBF to the end, eh? A lot of Gundam fans actually had great fun with it especially with all the crossover-mecha fights and character cameos. Even some naysayers changed their tunes after they know how to just have fun with the series .

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

So you’re one those who despise GBF to the end, eh? A lot of Gundam fans actually had great fun with it especially with all the crossover-mecha fights and character cameos. Even some naysayers changed their tunes after they know how to just have fun with the series .

I think most people mean GBFT. Try was a clear step down from the first season. I enjoyed it nonetheless but i find the first season more memorable.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by IceHism

I think most people mean GBFT. Try was a clear step down from the first season. I enjoyed it nonetheless but i find the first season more memorable.

I don’t really see a clear step down tbh. Both shows have different approach, and some people cannot appreciate that difference just because it doesn’t match with their expectation. And AFAICR people were also whining and complaining almost non-stop about the “Build Knuckle” after the fight with Sengoku Astray in GBF. And when GBFT arrived with an MC that do martial arts and make the Gunpla fights closer to G Gundam, they throw a fit (as they want more tactical battles) and suddenly view the previous GBF as a masterpiece and claimed that GBFT's battles are nothing more than just lightshows. So no, I don't really see it as a step down. It's more like people don't want to accept the free-brawling style of GBFT. If anything, it proves that you can never please everyone.

[Archon_Wing]

Age was on the weaker end sure but I never got on the hate train and yea I'm slow on Build Fighters; that was just different though. G-R was just lolTomino and I'm not sure why to hate on it unless you've like never watched UC.

I mean I couldn't call any of these masterpieces, but I'd take any of these in a heartbeat over Aldnoah.Zero or whatever crap they're passing off as a mecha anime these days. It's Gundam after all.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I never used the word "precious". Nevertheless, I don't hear you disputing that her crack at it was a disaster.

That's precisely my point. You make it seem like it's something you care about when in fact I'd be shocked if you were an Aquarion fan at all. Neither of us is qualified to assess her damage on that franchise. At least be outraged about the things relevant to you.

I'm not really disputing your main point about Okada, but I would think her problems go beyond simply trying to update existing franchises. I think she has problems period going outside of her comfort zone of dramatic teenagers unless it's a pretty straight forward adaption.

[Archon_Wing]

And indeed, I thought the first 1/2 or a bit more of Lupin was incredibly solid until she pulled out the melodrama wrench at the end to sabotage her own stuff. Though this is a recurring theme. Funny it happened at 9/13 which is also around the same point where True Tears and Anohana also got hit by this, and never really recovered.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

G-R was just lolTomino and I'm not sure why to hate on it unless you've like never watched UC.

The thing is, even for me (who have watched at least 75% of Tomino’s mecha works and 100% of Tomino’s Gundam works) G-Reco is just......all over the place......even for Tomino's standard(!). And I wasn’t even caught off-guard by his usual weirdness coz I’m more than used to it. The narrative is just incomprehensible and the dialogues are often like bullets from a machine gun! and there was like.......a dozen factions which each of them wants......whatever the hell they want that makes them butt heads or allied with every other factions . Hell son, to call G-Reco “convoluted” would be the understatement of the century.

It’s sad though, coz G-Reco actually looks gorgeous with dynamic animation and rich visuals both in painted backdrop and computer-assisted effects. Combined them with the retro design and you got yourself a winner for your HDTV display. In fact, I’m having a blast re-watching the Blu-ray version of G-Reco on my LED TV with the subtitle turned off and just enjoy all the visuals and sounds (to hell with the dialogues & story).

[Archon_Wing]

Oh, you mean them rectens. I always laughed at that. Reminds me of how they renamed Uranus to Urectum in Futurama.

I dunno, to me, it was intentionally campy and I laughed when the first slap was tossed. I guess I'll be alone in this then. I wasn't really watching it for it to make any sense.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I don’t really see a clear step down tbh. Both shows have different approach, and some people cannot appreciate that difference just because it doesn’t match with their expectation. And AFAICR people were also whining and complaining almost non-stop about the “Build Knuckle” after the fight with Sengoku Astray in GBF. And when GBFT arrived with an MC that do martial arts and make the Gunpla fights closer to G Gundam, they throw a fit (as they want more tactical battles) and suddenly view the previous GBF as a masterpiece and claimed that GBFT's battles are nothing more than just lightshows. So no, I don't really see it as a step down. It's more like people don't want to accept the free-brawling style of GBFT. If anything, it proves that you can never please everyone.

I never had a problem with the fights personally. 1v1 or 3v3. Could the fights have been improved? Yes. Could the teamwork aspect have been used better in try? Yes. Obviously we can't get great fights all the time like the gm sniper, Tryon 3, wing gundam fenice, crossbones full cloth, etc. But I enjoyed a majority of them so no problems there Imo.
My main problem was that the characters and their dynamics with each other don't feel very compelling compared to the first season. The one between Shia and Fumina felt very shoehorned in to me. The cast just didn't feel fleshed out outside of gunpla academy and try fighters.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

So you’re one those who despise GBF to the end, eh? A lot of Gundam fans actually had great fun with it especially with all the crossover-mecha fights and character cameos. Even some naysayers changed their tunes after they know how to just have fun with the series .

I'm surprised when I see GBF get as much negativity as it does. Yeah, it's not exactly traditional as a Gundam incarnation but I think it's executed very well (and I don't consider "Try" a step-down from the first season). If you have the ability to laugh at some elements of the franchise, I think GBF is quite fun.

[justsomeguy]

At first I thought Okada would be horrible, but then I thought about the sort of writing issues other Gundam shows had gotten:
1) Reconguista had happy Tomino, who seemed to have forgotten that he was writing a 2-cour show and not a 4-cour one, so we ended up with the heavy worldbuilding one would expect in the first half of a show and a messy rushed ending with none of the story and character development that should be in a second half. There's also the matter of the script having the worst dialogue ever.
2) Based on interviews with the director and staff, it seems AGE had a situation where the head writer had great ideas but failed to communicate, and the sub writers had to make stuff up to create a story on their own. Too bad, because Flit's story was brilliant.
3) We all know about Morisawa, and the anecdotal evidence of pettiness, vindictiveness, favoritism, conflict of interest, pandering, and probably the beginning stages of brain cancer that affected Destiny.

Compared to those, Okada is a godsend. At the very least she has a grasp of pacing and how to write characters. As long as Sunrise prevents her from taking the story in a bad direction Orphans should at least be decent.

(Of course, now that I've said that I imagine in a year we'll be cursing the show as the worst Gundam anime of all time.)

[Archon_Wing]

Yea well, I suppose it may be possible to play to Okada's strengths. It would seem she is quite strong at leaving no Aiko stone unturned. In the good shows, it adds flavor and depth into the grand scheme of things by adding another layer to whatever setting or character almost in a methodical fashion. In the bad shows, it leads to bizarre dead ends that just waste anyone's time.

So, there might be some good worldbuilding given the proper premises and characaters. Now, filtering these things out is what makes the difference.

But let's not shoot another Gundam series before it comes out of the gate, of course.

[Guardian Enzo]

When it comes to Okada and established franchises, I believe the correct term is "worldburning"...

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

When it comes to Okada and established franchises, I believe the correct term is "worldburning"...

Yea, I sorta realized you felt that way the past few times you mentioned it. =p

But in all seriousness, the Gundam franchise has set a precedent for adding more AUs in which one doesn't have to be chained down by canon or fear of violating any previously established characterization or concept. That's why it's been able to put forth so many different products. It's not like many other long running franchises where people keep arguing over canon or how we would have to ignore certain "things" and then end up in a loop of making the same characters over and over again. Therefore it could be treated as running an entirely original series. The vast majority of Gundam series can be watched as standalone except for certain OVAs,movies, and obviously direct sequels. I view that as a strength that such a franchise could survive these things due to it not being a slave to canon, as opposed to say something like Star Trek.

[Guardian Enzo]

Hey, you teed it up - I couldn't resist taking a swing.

If you don't think Gundam fans continually argue over canon, I'd have to respectfully disagree with you. But yes, generally speaking there is a little more wiggle room with Gundam than with some franchises.

[Reckoner]

They do when it concerns UC. Not really otherwise. The rest of the rage is UC fans against everyone else.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Hey, you teed it up - I couldn't resist taking a swing.

If you don't think Gundam fans continually argue over canon, I'd have to respectfully disagree with you. But yes, generally speaking there is a little more wiggle room with Gundam than with some franchises.

Mmm, you're not familiar with Gundam are you? Well, I'm not too familiar myself; I've mostly enjoyed the UC series.

I never said that people never argue over canon. They certainly can if it's the same universe, as Reckoner noted UC is the big one. So you can definitely have arguments over say, what happened to the characterization in Char's Counterattack vs Zeta because we're dealing with the same characters here. You could try and find contradictions between Unicorn and the other UC series, and that's where it can be a problem since we've been exploring that universe for over 30 years. But a lot of people won't as they get dazzled by the highly animated fights, fast paced action, and Hiroyuki Sawano actually giving 2 fucks about the music. And come to think about out, I am off to finish that series before someone kills me for thinking about watching Okadadam and not watching Unicorn. That's like not watching True Tears and watching well, everything else Okada did with PA Works.

In most other instances it's simply impossible, say 00 and AGE and Zeta, well, you can't compare those series at all in regards to consistency, beyond some general tendencies of the franchise. Ok, that didn't stop people from trying, but I digress.

If Okada was allowed to write a UC story, then sure, we'd be in deep shit, but this isn't the case. And this is the same franchise that has a sombrero wearing Mexican Gundam. I think it'll live. What may be true is that I often see people imposing what they think is "Gundam" on every series but really isn't all inclusive as Reckoner might have alluded to with the UC rage. It'd be like with Type Moon-- comparing Prism Illya to Fate/stay... oh wait no, fuck that. (Now Type Moon stuff might be something Okada should really stay away from. Uh oh... too late?)

And mind you, I'm more about praising the flexibility of this franchise more than anything that could be attributed to Okada. It's a tremendous opportunity to be allowed to write Gundam. I'm sure it'll have better characters than S... Oh, I better get running.

So no, you're definitely not going to get say,Kamille Bidan, running around, disguised in a dress for covert operations. Whether or not anyone suspiciously similar shows up (Sup, Char wannabe #386), is another issue. As you can see, the comparative damage to say something to Lupin was a bit higher.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

How can I expect her to write a cast of hot blooded manliness when she'd struggle to write one?

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The biggest issue is specifically, yeah, hot-blooded male characters... I can't recall any Okada male character that felt like Amuro Ray to me. Or like Bright Noa. Or like Char Aznable. Gundam Wing's Heero Yuy and Treize Khushrenada also don't connect in my mind to any Okada male character that I can think of off the top of my head.

Well, if y'all have seen the first episode of Gundam IBO, it seems Okada and her pal already passed the first hurdle of making a Gundam series . There's a lot of hot-blooded macho-ness here for an Okada show.

Let's hope the writing & direction will keep on improving.

[Archon_Wing]

Heh, judging by the internetz as of late, God forbid a Gundam series be good

Then again, it's not that surprising that a flexible franchise such as Gundam has a place for Okada as I had suggested.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Good to hear. Let's hope she continues with breaking her emasculated trend. Also someone tell her that for the next pa works anime original which is inevitable that she should put some testicles on her male characters.