Aldnoah.Zero - generic discussion thread

[Irenesharda]

You know, after the Terrans small victory this week, it would be hilarious, ironic, and a bit mean if next week, the knights talked with each other regarding Trillram's defeat and death at the hands of Terrans , and simply say it wasn't unexpected because Trillram was a fool (true) and his Nilokeras was an older, defective model. That even a lowly Terran could have figured out the giant weaknesses in that thing. Him being only a baron, he got the scraps compared to the other knights.

Originally Posted by Thess

IT CANNOT BE. It's too easy to spell.

Exactly! You're telling me they couldn't add like three more "m"s, some "r"s and a couple of "e"s?

Also, how uncreative can you get? The one female knight of the whole 37 (that we know of) and you named her "Femian"?

It's like naming the one guy in a show with all females, "Guy".

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

You know, after the Terrans small victory this week, it would be hilarious, ironic, and a bit mean if next week, the knights talked with each other regarding Trillram's defeat and death at the hands of Terrans , and simply say it wasn't unexpected because Trillram was a fool (true) and his Nilokeras was an older, defective model. That even a lowly Terran could have figured out the giant weaknesses in that thing. Him being an only a baron, he got the scraps compared to the other knights.

Actually given the isolated incident and that the area would soon be bombarded to kingdom come the other knights may never know about it.

[Avrorrange]

Is Trillram supposed to be one of the 37 knights? I thought each of the knights commanded a separate force of it's own and Trillram is only a maggot that's part of Cruhteo's force.

[Elder]

No he is of a lower rank and we discover he is also secret working for Saazbaum in planning the death of the Princess.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Sute443

So you want to be shown, not told, and when the anime shows you something about Asseylum that you don't expect (such as her giggling) you call it inconsistent characterization even though she's barely had any characterization at all?

Because, in my view, it is a bit inconsistent with what characterization she did have in Episode 1.

Sure, that's just speculation at this point, but so is calling her peace-loving. Unless I've missed some line from her about how all wars are evil and must be stopped.

Then let me share with you some of her lines from Episode 1, at least going by the subs I have.

"Right now, someone must take that first step towards Earth and Mars reaching a compromise." (to Slaine)

"I shall deliver your and your father's prayer of peace to that blue world." (to Slaine)

"My wish is to establish friendly relations with our distant home. Regardless of how we found ourselves here, I am visiting Earth as a show of amity and our well-wishes." (to her attendant)

That certainly sounds like a peace-loving diplomat to me.

I also have problems with the timeline. Under normal circumstances, it would be absurd to believe that an imperial society complete with nobility and ideas of racial supremacy could be founded from a 1970s-era foundation in so little time. But there are ways that it could be believable. Maybe Ray used alien technology to brainwash everyone. Or maybe he just found some neat weapons, gathered some like-minded assholes (the original knights), and they forced the rest of the inhabitants of Mars to join them at gunpoint, so we basically have a space!North Korea in which a bunch of people know how crappy things are but if they stick a tow out of line bad things happen. Are these just speculation? Sure. But they're plausible speculation.

I wouldn't consider those ideas downright impossible, but they are a real stretch, in my view.

Because she had to prioritize. Before she could do anything else, she had to get him to stop attacking the civilians.

That automatically happens if he stops, picks her up, and brings her to Cruhteo. So I don't see prioritization being an issue here.

You have a point there.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by kyp275

/shrug, the numbers don't lie,

Yes, and by the numbers, it's not unreasonable to hold that she's had frequent appearances throughout the first few episodes.

I'd say what's strange here is your preconception of what someone "who wants peace", and what "people who enjoy shooting off guns in missions" should be like.

We're not talking about playing Halo here, or just going to a shooting range. We're talking about shooting off weaponry in an actual real life warzone, in a military mission where people could easily die, possibly as a consequence of the Princess' actions. For someone who values peace and friendly relations between Mars and Earth, I really don't think enjoyment ought to be what she's feeling right now. I think it would make more sense if she had been more sober about the mission, like everybody else taking part in this mission seemed to be.

Also, the reverse of your statement also implies that those who "enjoy shooting guns" must then not want/dislike peace, an assertion that I must say I find personally objectionable.

There's different contexts for enjoying the shooting off of guns. Some of them are perfectly consistent with valuing peace. For example, enjoying LARPing with guns would not be inconsistent with valuing peace. But enjoying shooting off guns in a real life warzone in an actual military mission where people could die? That does seem a bit inconsistent with valuing peace to me.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Elder

No he is of a lower rank and we discover he is also secret working for Saazbaum in planning the death of the Princess.

^What I thought.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

Actually given the isolated incident and that the area would soon be bombarded to kingdom come the other knights may never know about it.

I highly doubt Trillram's death is going to go by and nobody is going to say anything about it. Cruhteo at least will notice his absence, and he'll probably let the others know. Plus, we don't even know if Saazbaum is going to go through with the bombing now that the area's been evacuated.

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

Is Trillram supposed to be one of the 37 knights? I thought each of the knights commanded a separate force of it's own and Trillram is only a maggot that's part of Cruhteo's force.

Originally Posted by Elder

No he is of a lower rank and we discover he is also secret working for Saazbaum in planning the death of the Princess.

According to the website, they state that Trillram is a Mars knight using the word "kishi" (騎士) which we may be familiar with from Sidonia no Kishi, while for Cruhteo and Saazbaum they used the term "shakui" (爵位) which seems to mean knighthood. So, I'm thinking they are all knights, Trillram just happened to have a lower title, peerage-wise, but he was still a knight. He just doesn't have his own castle or army, etc. so he can't be considered one of the 37. He's a 38th "auxiliary" knight if you will.

[BladeEntity]

Not to mention there will be missing a giant purple Aldnoah lol.

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes, nothing at all strange or out of character about a Princess who strives for peace acting downright giddy over shooting off smoke bombs against one of her people as part of a military operation against him.

I strongly disagree as it pertains to the Princess. I think it's very clear that we're supposed to like her. And since her Princess status is put front and center, I think we're supposed to like that about her as well. Which all goes back to how it would probably be beneficial for this show, and for her character, to be presented as an admirable Princess.

No, those are not the only two ways it could be read or seen. It could also be seen as a poor and/or inconsistent way of portraying her, which some of us are inclined to see it as, for reasons that ought to be perfectly understandable (read what I wrote above in part of my reply to Sute443).

Again, what a writer chooses to show, and chooses not to show, matters. The old line of "show, don't tell" exists for a very good reason. What is showed/not showed causes certain impressions and suggestions to take hold in the mind of some, if not many, viewers.

This is blatantly ignoring highly important contextual facts for this firing action. The full context includes, as major points, that the person firing off the weapon is striving for peace, and that the person firing off the weapon is doing so as part of a military operation against one of the soldiers of her people's military, where the end game could easily involve the killing of that soldier.

Taking this all together, this can easily be seen as an odd and out of character action. Maybe you personally don't see it that way, but it should not be hard for you or anybody else to understand and acknowledge why some of us see it as odd and out of character. There is definitely a certain contradiction between loving/wanting peace and downright delighting in firing off a smoke bomb in a military operation that could easily result in the death of one of your people's soldiers.


If those of you defending this show could just accept this much criticism of the show, this tiny bit of criticism of the show, I'd happily move on from the entire debate. After all, I had no problem whatsoever with this post here. Why did I have no problem with that post? Because FlareKnight at least acknowledged, and I quote, "A bit of inner conflict would have been nice."

Is that really so hard for you and Esclair to admit to as well? That it would have been nice if a supposedly peace-loving person had shown a bit of inner conflict over taking these sorts of actions against one of her own people's soldiers?

For reasons I have explained in exhaustive detail, I did not see such clarity and consistency with the Princess. I do not see why it is so hard for you and some other viewers to understand that, and accept that, and see why it would be displeasing to me, and possibly some other viewers as well (Kazu-kun, Dr. Dahm, etc...).

Your problem with the Princess basically boils down to 2 points:
1. The Princess must be portrayed as a good ruler because the writers want her to be likeable.
2. Wanting peace means she cannot be giddy about firing off a weapon.

I don't agree with either points. Starting from the first, I don't agree that a protagonist must be written to be likable. Many protagonists start off as completely unlikeable but grows to be likable later. This is especially common in coming of age stories. In a show with multiple protagonists there's no reason to be forced to make all the protagonists likable right off the bat. I don't see any valid reason why the writers MUST make her likable in the first three episodes. If you take away that basis, then there's no reason for the expectation that she's a good ruler. None of the scenes we're shown of her give any indication of what her rule is like, so the show itself makes no contradictions. Of course in my case, I'd find her interesting even if it's revealed that she's a terrible or inexperienced ruler.

For the second point. I don't agree that wanting peace means she can't be giddy about firing off a weapon. Granted, assuming it's not a production mistake they'd need to delve into it in future episodes, but it's not really contradictory with what we're given. The only statements she's made regarding 'peace' are: "Right now, someone must take that first step towards Earth and Mars reaching a compromise." "I shall deliver your and your father's prayer of peace to that blue world." "My wish is to establish friendly relations with our distant home". She didn't say anything regarding whether peace should be achieved with force or not. She only talks about attempting an offer of peace. She also gives a sad/troubled expression afterwards. Maybe she thinks that it's impossible without sacrifices.

There's no evidence that she's a pacifist either. Wanting peace doesn't mean she won't take up arms. Gandhi's train of thought is admirable, but not the only viewpoint, and definitely not a common stance throughout history, where peace usually only comes after inordinate amounts of blood has been shed. The fact that she attacks Inaho out of instinct and has no qualms about immediately jumping into the fight indicates that she might be the opposite of a pacifist by nature. In fact, given how the other Martians absolutely glee at killing Terrans and seem to have no qualms about killing each other either, perhaps the Martians' blood thirst is an actual plot point. Slaine was pretty much raised as a Martian but he still has trouble killing even someone as abhorrent Trillram, yet the Rat Girl and the Princess are fully combat trained and act as cool as terminators in actual combat. Maybe she is inherently as prone to violence as the rest of the Martians. She just tries her best to rise above it. The newest Planet of the Apes movie explores that exact scenario with Caesar.

Now, as to her 'giddiness' at firing off a weapon. There's actually quite a few protagonists in anime that have been portrayed in a similar manner. Lelouch is a pretty good example. His dream for a better world for Nunally is fairly noble, yet he understands how much destruction he will need to sow to get there. We know he emphasizes with the plight of the weak, and even extends that empathy towards his enemies (Rolo for example) yet he you can tell how much joy he gains when he completely destroys his opponents when his plans work. During the first episode we see him as a fairly 'normal' student with a tragic background who gets thrust into unfortunate circumstances. We see him care about people getting hurt (the Japanese that died, the bound C2, Suzaku). However, as soon as he activates his Geass for the first time, after seeing all the people he just killed, his face of horror turns into a malicious grin. This dichotomy is an integral part of his character.

Frankly we had less time with her in 3 episodes than most protagonists in 1 episode. I don't think it's really enough to make a conclusion on what kind of character she is yet.

You can like a show, even love a show, without thinking its downright flawless. Yet some people on this thread seem to be insistent upon this show being downright flawless, given how some respond to the slightest bit of criticism that some of us voice of this show.

This show is not flawless. There are plenty of flaws. Kazu-kun pointed out one regarding Slaine's plane being suddenly un-bulletproof when it was bulletproof from the episode before. There's plenty of other ones I can point out:
-Local communications working (Inaho's team, RC airplane) when they're actively jamming Earth's radio signals (there might be some in depth explanation about how only some specific frequencies are jammed)
-Earth battleships not intercepting the missiles even if after they realized the ships were not the targets and letting them pass right by and destroying the undersea cables
-Not using nukes right off the bat (the landing castles pretty much already did the equivalent of a nuke at the areas where they crashed)
-Inaho's friend flying into Trillham's mech. People have discussed a number of theories of how something like that MIGHT be possible but there's no good or easy explanation for the scene other to be dramatic
-Trillham's mech not having IR cameras (which would have allowed him to chase them into the tunnels)
-The instructor having in depth knowledge of the Martian's capabilities from the last battle when NOBODY else does.
-Trillham being an incompetent idiot
-The Princess having a double that NOBODY knew about. Where the heck did she come from? They left Crutheo's castle in a shuttle. Considering how much concern he shows her he'd have combed over every aspect of the crew manifest for that shuttle. There's no way she could have snuck a double on there without him knowing
-Rat girl conveniently standing away from her father's group as to not get crushed
-Martians painted as racist caricatures except for the Princess who's enlightened and non-racist

I just don't agree with your point that her character is inconsistently written because I don't agree with the premises on which your opinion is based. I can understand why you might dislike her character if she's presented as such, but that doesn't make her a inconsistently written character, at least not yet. Episode four can prove you right depending on what else they reveal about her character, but as of episode three there's nothing that is inherently contradictory based on what little we know of her.

Honestly, I think you're wrong, at least as it pertains to main cast characters that show up frequently in the first three episodes. I had a pretty good sense of the entire Madoka Magica main cast (other than Kyouko, for obvious reasons) after the first three episodes. I had a pretty good sense of the entire Love Live! main cast after the first three episodes. I had a pretty good sense of the entire Valvrave main cast after the first three episodes. I had a pretty good sense of the entire K-On main cast (other than Azusa, for obvious reasons) after the first three episodes. I had a pretty good sense of the entire Saki main cast (i.e. Team Kiyosumi) after the first three episodes. And I could go on and on, listing off numerous anime shows.

Now, each of these characters would be fleshed out much more throughout their respective anime shows as a whole, but the broad strokes of them were fairly clear and consistent within the first three episodes.

Did you really have a good sense of Homura's character in the first three episodes? Pieces didn't really fall into place until the second half of the show and it wasn't until episode 10 that her character was fully revealed. What about L-Elf? He was kind of a puzzle for a good while until we found out about his back story. In Fate/Zero, Kiri can be considered the primary protagonist but we really didn't know him until his backstory episode. Even then it wasn't until the ending where we finally truly came to understand his character. Instead we had Waver as an alternative protagonist who we quickly could pin down.

The Princess so far really hasn't been a standard point of view character. The way she's shown feels more like it's done through the perception of another character. When we first meet her, it's through Slaine, and we get to know more about Slaine's infatuation and his perception of her. Then we see her in the elevator with her maid. Here she presents a completely different facet of herself than the one she showed to Slain, and we're also given the perception of the Princess from her maid. Then the next time we meet her it's from Inaho's perspective. We noticed her sadness regarding her double's death as Inaho notices it. When she shows up again, it's when Inaho is having trouble figuring out who to drive the decoy truck and she volunteers. Again, we're shown the perception of her actions as being somewhat puzzling to Inaho and co. Calm even makes a comment regarding her as a chuunibyou beause he didn't really understand what she meant with her comment about her trial and duty. Once we're on the truck we see Rat girl's teaching her how to fire a gun, and directing her. Then the princess henshins and we first see Trillran/Slaine/Rat girl all react to her survival from their frame of mind. Almost every scene we've had with her is always with another major character in the scene in sort of 'observation' role. If this was a book, her scenes would be written from the pov of the observational character, not hers.

Compare to both Inaho and Slaine. We're with Inaho most of the time and we get a lot of personal scenes with him just by himself doing the things he does, and we get a better idea of who he is. Scenes like him reacting to the missles, cooking, inside the pilot's seat prepping for launch, him emoting that he's taking revenge for his friend. Although he's a non-standard character, he's very much portrayed as a standard PoV character. It's the same with Slaine, we see him get abused by Crutheo/Trillram, we see him inside the cockpit of his fighter conflicted about shooting down his fellow Earthlings, we see him react to the Princess's reveal, and of course to the reveal of Trillham's treachery. For these two characters, the personalities are pretty well established by this point, so you know the writers at least know how to do so.

The princess is presented more in the line of Homura or L-Elf, although not as antagonists as they were (at the beginning). I don't think it's necessary at all to have her be fully established by episode 3.

[Avrorrange]

Peace through power!People needs to know that war is only an extension of politics and suitable amount of violence is necessary for a longer lasting peace.

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

Why are things like walls desintegrated, but the blade from Inaho's mech not? Does this prove that the martian mech always has to spin his upper a bit while going through bigger objects to make sure that his weakspot is not accidently pierced by undesintegrated concrete?

The way I see it is that when all the concrete around it has been disintegrated what's left in the "weakness" zone isn't much of a threat and probably just gets pushed to the side to be absorbed. I'd be more concerned about shrapnel from any rockets that might explode near it than I would from residential concrete.

[Shadow5YA]

Are we really having a discussion about if it's inappropriate for a character to smile after learning how to fire a gun?

We have a young monarch who somehow grew up with romantic ideals despite the rest of her planet being racist against Earthlings, and a young boy who is naturally more disciplined than actual trained solders, and your issue is that she smiled at the wrong time?

This is starting to remind me of kpop idols. Get the wrong expression caught on camera and it'll escalate into being called a ***** with people boycotting your performances at concerts

[Hooves]

Wow.... First we have a discussion about the princess fighting against her own people without much worry. After she hears they tried to assassinate her, and the fact she was with the Earthlings and how devastated they are that the Martians are invading. Now we have a discussion that she smiles at the wrong time after learning to fire a grenade launcher LOADED WITH SMOKESCREEN. Next you're going to discuss Inaho intentionally letting his friend go to die for whatever reason. Just saying

She might not even fight her own people. Why would she even desire to fight her own people when all she wanted was peace.

[Theo]

-So basically the tunnel has a completely stupid explanation; he didn't go in because the top-down camera couldn't see inside.

Okay, so what? Apparently walking through or smashing with fists was completely off the table. No power issues, so what's the problem?

-Boy, if she keeps this up, the Princess gonna look pretty stupid when Mars Attacks finds out that she's been helping the Terrans kill their own.

[Sute443]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Then let me share with you some of her lines from Episode 1, at least going by the subs I have.

"Right now, someone must take that first step towards Earth and Mars reaching a compromise." (to Slaine)

"I shall deliver your and your father's prayer of peace to that blue world." (to Slaine)

"My wish is to establish friendly relations with our distant home. Regardless of how we found ourselves here, I am visiting Earth as a show of amity and our well-wishes." (to her attendant)

That certainly sounds like a peace-loving diplomat to me.

And to me they sound like someone who doesn't want a war with Earth, without expressing any further opinion as to the acceptability of violence and warfare in general. But I can see how someone else could interpret them differently. Agree to disagree on this point?

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I wouldn't consider those ideas downright impossible, but they are a real stretch, in my view.

I agree, which is why I'm eager to see what explanation the writers will give us. And if they don't give us a decent one, then I'll be right there complaining about it.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

That automatically happens if he stops, picks her up, and brings her to Cruhteo. So I don't see prioritization being an issue here.

... True. But it wouldn't have been very viable in the time she had.

I think that there was less than a minute from the time Asseylum got out of the truck to the time the missiles struck. That's not a lot of time to explain things. She couldn't call off the attack, so if she was going to have him use his mech to take her to safety, she first needed to get him out of harm's way.

Then again, maybe she really was trying to keep him in position to be attacked. She didn't really need Trillram to be in his mech to report on her survival given that she knew there was a flying carrier in the area and she may have suspected that Trillram would survive the attack.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

Yes, I knew it there will be Valvrave theme fanart for A/Z. Massive kudos to that artist. Please keep finding more these fanarts Thess, especially any crossover with VVV. Unsurprisingly, Slaine look a lot like L-elf.

I found that amusing because of their accurate facial expressions. Slaine's more feminine looking than L-Elf, I think. He's 'softer'? Now with the rest, I decided to do Slaine's individual fanart post later, because he got most of the tag and I am lazy.

Asseylum:

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Inaho and Asseylum:

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Slaine and Asseylum:

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[MK-95-]

So this is where the VVV regulars migrated to? Well, I'll be in your care once again guys. I'm a bit late to board the A.Z train. Been busy with school & the PS3. Finally made time to sit down & check out the mecha anime(s) for this season.
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First thing I see when I start episode one is a L-Elf clone. Wow, that character template is really popular these days, huh?

Animation's great, so that wouldn't be a problem.

Soundtrack is also nice. I can already see myself downloading the OST. lol

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Episode 1: Decent, not too fast in the pacing department & did excellently in relaying the plot points across to the viewers. The foundations & world building have gotten an excellent start & the characters are already somewhat likeable.

Those missiles tho. Damn that was cool! They're even smarter than smart missiles. lol

Wow, those castles collided with the impact of a nuke. Nothing within the blast radius could've survived that. O_O

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Episode 2: Wow those guys are brilliantly dangerous. They cut off communications between countries, effectively handicapping all coordinated attacks.

Seriously though, what's up with that Martian tech? Its OP as fuck. Its like Gundam 00 S1 & VVV S1 all over again.

Well, I kinda figured that the princess wouldn't die. I mean, she's basically the heroine. The intro alone gave her that much plot armor. Conspiracy! She was set up to be killed by her own people.

Is that thing erasing the road? & Now the mech went through it & lost an arm... The Opness... I feel it for that dude, that's quite a way to die. He literally got disintegrated.

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Episode 3: Such precise analysis & observation. Is our MC a freaking machine? Seriously, what's up with mecha protagonists lacking in personality nowadays? False alarm, he is human after all, I just heard his little conversation with Inko.

& she reveals her identity. I thought she'd had kept quiet a little longer before the reveal.

Score one for Earth. They defeated him with such an unorthodox method. I like Inaho's way of going about things. He's quite the interesting one, isn't he?

Wow, Slaine had more balls than I thought. He killed that dude so epically. +1 for that guy's reaction to getting shot the first time.

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Yup, I'm sold. Will definitely be riding this train. It piques my interest to no end.

Side Note: Honestly, I can't wait for Earth to kick their snobby asses. People with massive egos & superiority complexes need to be taken down a notch.

[novalysis]

Even if we aren't getting a subforum, Aldonah is going to need an image thread at least, at this rate.

On the issue of the Princess : to me the contradictions are fascinating. At least we aren't getting a Euphie or Lacus Clone outright - were Assyleum's character to take the trajectory the first episode seemed to suggest, I do think right now, she's going to be dismissed as another insipid, creatively bankrupt reiteration of Lacus Cylen or Euphemia.


It is possible to rationally advocate and wish for peace (in the comfort of your Space Castle, and not fighting for your life), and yet have an intrinsic sense of blood lust and take joy under the pressures of battle. Infact, these contradictions might well be the very basis of the Princess characterization - a pacifist by rational persuasion, but a blood lusted warrior at heart - which promptly gives her far more depth and makes her more multi dimensional than Euphemia or Lacus ever was. It's possible they are going for the subversion of the Lacus Clone Peace loving Princess trope here.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by novalysis

On the issue of the Princess : to me the contradictions are fascinating. At least we aren't getting a Euphie or Lacus Clone outright - were Assyleum's character to take the trajectory the first episode seemed to suggest, I do think right now, she's going to be dismissed as another insipid, creatively bankrupt reiteration of Lacus Cylen or Euphemia.

She's more like Dianna Soreil of Turn A Gundam actually, if you want to compare her with a mecha princess.

Also, it's been a while I watched Seed and Destiny, but wasn't Lacus in charge of a ship or a fleet? She's far from 'peaceful' when her preaching was "do as I say, or I'll sic my boyfriend to pacify you!"

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by Thess

She's more like Dianna Soreil of Turn A Gundam actually, if you want to compare her with a mecha princess.

Also, it's been a while I watched Seed and Destiny, but wasn't Lacus in charge of a ship or a fleet? She's far from 'peaceful' when her preaching was "do as I say, or I'll sic my boyfriend to pacify you!"

Second season Jesus Yamato could disable all enemies without killing anyone, so she could maintain her pacifist stance (nobody died!) but first season she stole a ship and blew her way out of her colony, and took part in a number of battles against ZAFT where people definitely got blown up.