Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

it seems Athena did not even know how or when her power was transferred to Hayate

The problem is, we don't know what she meant with that. For example, what if her power was related to that coffin? If, say, someone opened that coffin, then perhaps that person would be able to get all that power. Hayate seemed to be curious about that coffin; so, perhaps he may have opened it, and got all that power accidentally.

Sure, that's a big stretch for a theory, but my point here is that Athena's loss of power is not limited to it having been transferred to someone.

Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13

I think she said that Hayate's body is actually strong and she just released the potential of his body. Might have to reread that chapter though.

Yes, she said that much. She also said Hayate's body had a deep wound, that being the reason why Hayate couldn't use much of the potential of his body.

[Koroshiya_Kame_13]

Originally Posted by Used Can

The problem is, we don't know what she meant with that. For example, what if her power was related to that coffin? If, say, someone opened that coffin, then perhaps that person would be able to get all that power. Hayate seemed to be curious about that coffin; so, perhaps he may have opened it, and got all that power accidentally.

Sure, that's a big stretch for a theory, but my point here is that Athena's loss of power is not limited to it having been transferred to someone.

Well if her powers were not transferred then it probably was drained. Could her powers be drained by the skeleton behind her when she was fighting with Hayate?

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Hina was there because she expected a duel since she was told he asked, and her rage was simply because Hayate was late due to forgetfulness That's all...Nothing more, nothing less. NOTHING serious.

It's been for the three reasons I mentioned. Hayate being massively late, Hina expecting a duel and Hayate being oblivious as usual. Hina was very disappointed and hurt. So was Athena. I don't see this huge "magnitude" issue which you see at all.

When did Isumi said Hina attacked Hayate because Masamune caused her to lose control?

Anime, episode 13, timecode 8:26 ff.

Isumi: "As a trade-off, though, the user becomes very emotional. But she looked like had control of herself, so she should be fine."

Masamune causes people to become more emotional than usual, so this lowered Hina's violence threshold, contributing to her attacking him. If your point is that the intention to attack Hayate was latent within Hina, I have no problem with that. She was very disappointed and angry, and to her, Hayate came for a duel.

What demon are you talking about? I'm pretty certain I didn't speak of Hina with any term of "demon."

That was directed to Teleutao, to who you responded.

First of all, as I stated in the earlier post, to compare how Hina controlled her anger to Athena's situation IS outrageous. Hina's situation is NOTHING compare to Athena's situation which resulting in the great difference in magnitude of their rage. The greater the rage meaning the harder to control.

It's not outrageous. Athena did have no justification to totally tilt like this. Hayate's naivete caused him to lose a precious ring, and he is too oblivious to acknowledge this. So, Athena is entitled to feeling angry and disappointed, too. Okay so far. However, Athena had NO right whatsoever to decree that Hayate has to sever her relationship to his parents. She also had NO right whatsoever to decree that he isn't to leave the castle any more. And consequently, she has NO right to get mad about it when Hayate refuses to follow her order.

You seem to think that Hayate did such a terrible thing to her that she's entitled to shishkebob him. I don't. Both Hina and Athena are entitled to feel anger and disappointment, both attack him, but one girl gets a grip on herself again even AGAINST the effect of Masamune, and the other one doesn't. Maybe if the story unveils some more compelling reason for Athena to tilt like that, I'll feel more sympathetic to her. Until then, I see no reason not to compare the anger management of Hina and Athena. There is a difference in magnitude of the resulting anger, yes, but no difference in magnitude of the cause.

Why don't you added the thought that Hayate still believed in his trash of parents although they will make him suffer?

Let me speak french for a second: In the end, this isn't Athena's f*cking business. And if you feel you're entitled to slash the one you want to care for with a sword to protect him from emotional harm of his parents, you need your head examined. Because then your priorities are dangerously messed up.

[Tom Bombadil]

One spoiler pic of 241
Sorry if it has been post.

[Used Can]

As for Athena and Hina trying to slash Hayate, I think none of them had a good justification to do that. Whether he was too naive to still believe his parents, or whether he forgot a date are no justifications to do so.

As for Hina stopping and Athena not doing so, the situations were different I'd say. Hina's feelings were hurt for sure, but in her situation it was mostly disappointment. In Athena's case, we do not know exactly what was going through her head. She seems to have an issue with parents and betrayal, and on top of that, Hayate then said something completely stupid. I don't think the fact she didn't stop the fight should have come as a surprise. If Hayate would hurt Hina's feelings in a similar way, I'm sure she'd get as angry at him as Athena did. So, comparing different situations won't show anything.

This is just my 2 cents on this matter.

Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13

Well if her powers were not transferred then it probably was drained. Could her powers be drained by the skeleton behind her when she was fighting with Hayate?

Who knows? That's a possibility too.
We'll have to see what exactly happened, because we have no leads to form an actual theory.

[Von Himmel]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

One spoiler pic of 241
Sorry if it has been post.

Holy shi-!
Looks like Machina does not hold back anymore :<

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Mentar

It's been for the three reasons I mentioned. Hayate being massively late, Hina expecting a duel and Hayate being oblivious as usual. Hina was very disappointed and hurt. So was Athena. I don't see this huge "magnitude" issue which you see at al

It's not outrageous. Athena did have no justification to totally tilt like this. Hayate's naivete caused him to lose a precious ring, and he is too oblivious to acknowledge this. So, Athena is entitled to feeling angry and disappointed, too. Okay so far. However, Athena had NO right whatsoever to decree that Hayate has to sever her relationship to his parents. She also had NO right whatsoever to decree that he isn't to leave the castle any more. And consequently, she has NO right to get mad about it when Hayate refuses to follow her order.

Uhm...Hina was sadden and anger because he was late. Hurt? Sadden? What is the big deal "BEING LATE" to a birthday for a girl compare to when another girl find out her lover gives for the PROOF OF LOVE to someone else so easily. Not only that,her lover still believed in the people that SOLD the "proof of love" JUST FOR LUNCH MONEY. He still wanted to be with them, and you CAN'T do anything about it. And you know those people will make him suffer if he goes with them. And when she tried to do something that she believed will help him, her lover said that she does not know anything because she "Doesn't HAVE ANY PARENTS." And her lover KNOWS that it will hurt you greatly when he said that. What's more, she was the person who's right from the beginning over all. That HURTS Athena MUCH MORE than Hina for Hayate just BEING LATE .What is the big deal about "BEING LATE" compare to this?
Athena's method may be wrong, but her SUFFERING, ANGER, and PAIN is MUCH WORST than Hina. Not outrageous, are you kidding me?
Mentar, just hope for Hina to become atleast Hayate's "lover" and something like that happen, then compare.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Isumi: "As a trade-off, though, the user becomes very emotional. But she looked like had control of herself, so she should be fine."

You seem to think that Hayate did such a terrible thing to her that she's entitled to shishkebob him. I don't. Both Hina and Athena are entitled to feel anger and disappointment, both attack him, but one girl gets a grip on herself again even AGAINST the effect of Masamune, and the other one doesn't. Maybe if the story unveils some more compelling reason for Athena to tilt like that, I'll feel more sympathetic to her. Until then, I see no reason not to compare the anger management of Hina and Athena. There is a difference in magnitude of the resulting anger, yes, but no difference in magnitude of the cause.

Masamune causes people to become more emotional than usual, so this lowered Hina's violence threshold, contributing to her attacking him. If your point is that the intention to attack Hayate was latent within Hina, I have no problem with that. She was very disappointed and angry, and to her, Hayate came for a duel.

When did I said Athena has the right to do anything to Hayate? Please, do not speak for me. Honestly, its better if you just hate Athena, and please do not sympathize her. ^^
Hina attacked Hayate before the Masamune effects even started, that means ITS HER ANGER that made her attack him. The Masamune made her can't control her emotion, made her more emotional which she speak of her inner most feelings when she doe not want to. IT DID NOT make Hina becomes angry nor give her the desired to attack him. It made her more emotional as a woman which expressed her desired.

There is a BIG DIFFERENT magnitude concerning their anger and suffering, unless you are too blind to see.

Originally Posted by Mentar

Let me speak french for a second: In the end, this isn't Athena's f*cking business. And if you feel you're entitled to slash the one you want to care for with a sword to protect him from emotional harm of his parents, you need your head examined. Because then your priorities are dangerously messed up.

Where the hell is this coming from? I don't see any relevant in this post with the previous, nor do I remember stating what Athena's method is right. Please, show me.
Uhm, did Athena really tried to slash Hayate with the sword, or to kill him? She was attacking him with the sword, but did she really aimed for him? She had trained him without hurting him with real swords, did she not? When he thinks she tried to kill him, it can be his hallucination with her fearful "aura" like when he first tried to open the coffin, right? At the end, when the sword broke, do you think Hayate was trying to kill Athena even though he went all out?
She was forceful and harsh, sadden and fill with anger, but did she really desired to harm Hayate with a sword? Because if she did, her power in the RG will be more than enough to annihilate him with swords appear everywhere with just a flick of a finger.

[Rah]

Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13

My powers

Originally Posted by Used Can

her powers

Originally Posted by leoblack9

it's powers

Originally Posted by IndoViking

his powers

Originally Posted by SirWence

that power

Originally Posted by zodanhko

the power

Yeah, baby, yeah!




Do I make you horny? Randy? Do I make you horny, baby, yeah, do I?


Everybody here wants some! You can't deny the facts!

[tsunade666]

Thanks for the spoiler pic even though its just one its plenty meaningful. Its devastating.
Machina doesn't even hold back a bit and hayate is getting pawned. PRETTY GOOD! FOR HIM BAKA BUTLER! BUT STILL FIGHT A LITTLE BETTER FOR A-TAN!.

[Used Can]

[IndoViking]

Originally Posted by Koroshiya_Kame_13

I think she said that Hayate's body is actually strong and she just released the potential of his body. Might have to reread that chapter though.

Ah i see, i misunderstood what i read apparently. thanks for clearing it Used Can, Koroshiya

[SirWence]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Thanks for the spoiler pic even though its just one its plenty meaningful. Its devastating.
Machina doesn't even hold back a bit and hayate is getting pawned. PRETTY GOOD! FOR HIM BAKA BUTLER! BUT STILL FIGHT A LITTLE BETTER FOR A-TAN!.

Well it's like he came down to kill Hayate.. and Hayate came for a chat ... as Hayate still has his .....less then perceptive... nature about him, does it really surprise he likely didnt even see this fight coming (despite being kicked away I admit with no damage by Machina before) - So I doubt Hayate was fighting at even half his power while Machina is going with seemingly* everything he can. that could be of course wrong - but he seems quite like he is.

@Rah - Lol that was a good laugh

Anyone by the way having memories of this

'Well, if she is the force of justice, of course there is a queen of evil... she might appear sometime sooner or later'

so who is our queen if hina is our justice I wonder

[Teleutao]

I think you guys are taking what I said a little too far...again. I'm not saying that the situation is the same between the two girls, I was merely drawing a parallel between their relationships to Hayate. To put it another way...Hinagiku was mad at Hayate enough to hurt him (doesn't matter why or the 'magnitdue' stop adding arguments please) and her strikes looked like they might have killed a normal person. She then managed to regain her self control, but it wasn't over yet, she knew that if she didn't do something then she would lose though she didn't know what (I'm guessing it was her chance at a relationship with Hayate). Once they stopped fighting, Hina was able to turn that near disaster into the single most romantic scene of the entire manga. Athena was also angry enough to attack Hayate (once again, it doesn't matter why stop comparing directly) and once again he may have been seriously hurt to say the least. However, Athena was consumed by her anger and kept attacking until their weapons broke, turning that complete disaster into the single most tragic scene of the manga.

Also, the demon bit only referred to the giant skeleton-thing that appeared during Hayate's fight with Athena, it sort of gets replaced with Masamune during Hinagiku's fight scene. I am going to have to agree, however, that Athena was trying to pretty much kill Hayate and could probably use a head-examination as she apparently also wanted to protect him. This could be why TVTropes officially lists Athena as a yandere on the shows page.

As for this news of a potentially lethal battle with Machina, I get the feeling that our idiot butler (no, not Hayate) will probably try and offer Athena Hayate's blood from a near-death state thinking that it may restore her powers...it would even be kind of funny to see, though I still feel really bad for Hayate, poor bastard. I can also see him making his way home eventually (unless he isn't going to return home that night and worry everyone) and explain to Hina that he went to do as she suggested only to nearly get killed, though he may give up on Athena and Hinagiku will probably have a REALLY low opinion of her now (as she also knows that Athena is the witch, or queen of evil [heard that mentioned on Hata's blog too, huh] that warped Hayate so badly, hell once the other love interests hear that it'll be a revenge team up or something). Well, the spoilers are at least giving us all something to talk about, can't wait till Wednesday!

[SirWence]

well she does certainly meet a few of the criteria for 'yandere' lol but its hard to say for me its a semi toss up... But I agree overall with your post though I am not convinced she was truly trying to kill him... though I am convinced if the final blows if landed and whos ever landed the other other would have died as they were strong enough to break the swords into pieces.

[surerman]

Originally Posted by SirWence

Anyone by the way having memories of this so who is our queen if hina is our justice I wonder

And what make you think that Hina is in so called 'Justice' side and not other side?
(deleted).............because will make Hina fans goes rage.........(deleted)
oh! sorry, I didn't see that Hina Flag above your head

and Flyvedelta?
Thank you for the spoiler pic, Hayate cough blood...hmm...I think it's good if Hate-sensei get one too
*opened and re-read Guidebook for Hitman "1001 technique to kill human" vol2
*
*found it: "How to make victim received very painful death" sub "Cough blood"*

but it's good pic...I pity Hayate but strangely feel joy when I see him in pain, may be it's because I didn't kill anyone for a long time?
(only cockroaches and rat dare to come near me)

[Von Himmel]

I'm not the one who put the spoiler pic though
Got to agree that it looks painful o.o I think this is the first time I've seen Hayate cough up blood seriously like that o.o;
Maybe I miss some parts...but, I think it's more comedy than serious feeling on it.

[SirWence]

Originally Posted by surerman

And what make you think that Hina is in so called 'Justice' side and not other side?

hatas blog made me think so lol as it was a hina related entry >.> also am I being accused of being a Hina shipper now? lol

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Teleutao

I think you guys are taking what I said a little too far...again. I'm not saying that the situation is the same between the two girls, I was merely drawing a parallel between their relationships to Hayate. To put it another way...Hinagiku was mad at Hayate enough to hurt him (doesn't matter why or the 'magnitdue' stop adding arguments please) and her strikes looked like they might have killed a normal person. She then managed to regain her self control, but it wasn't over yet, she knew that if she didn't do something then she would lose though she didn't know what (I'm guessing it was her chance at a relationship with Hayate). Once they stopped fighting, Hina was able to turn that near disaster into the single most romantic scene of the entire manga. Athena was also angry enough to attack Hayate (once again, it doesn't matter why stop comparing directly) and once again he may have been seriously hurt to say the least. However, Athena was consumed by her anger and kept attacking until their weapons broke, turning that complete disaster into the single most tragic scene of the manga.

Ehh, comparing the situations was how the debate started, and show how some of the Hina fans were being unreasonable. I'm doom without it.

[qwertyman]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

One spoiler pic of 241
Sorry if it has been post.

Awesome.

Hayate is getting some sense beaten into him, finally. Looks like he really is going to have to try his best to stop Machina.

[Game8910]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Ehh, comparing the situations was how the debate started, and show how some of the Hina fans were being unreasonable. I'm doom without it.

im actually enjoying this, for the first time in like...ever, there is a faction that can go vs the gigantic Hina ship lol

even if in the end neither will win