Urobuchi Gen: Discussions on his Stories and Style (spoilers ahead)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

A writer's main concern should be that his work is interesting and/or entertaining.

Agreed. That was kind of my point, actually.

Integrity in a writer's creative vision is important, but I'm a bit wary of said vision being a sort of catch-all defense against viewer criticism.

Basically, if someone goes "Man, I really didn't like what happened in the third Madoka Magica movie for reasons A, B, and C", I hope the counter-argument isn't just "Dude, you have to respect Urobuctcher's vision!"

If, as you alluded to, the third Madoka Magica movie has a massive bad ending, a lot of viewers will be pissed, and I don't think those viewers should be faulted for that. With such an ending, I myself will likely be one such pissed-off viewer.


Of course, its possible that the third Madoka Magica movie will have an ending that you and/or I love, so this discussion may well be moot when it's all said and done.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So you don't think that writers should write what fans want them to write? You don't think that should be a consideration at all?

This is entertainment, you know. And it is a commercial industry.

Actually....yes.

He has the success of the first Madoka TV series behind him. I'd say it gives him more leeway to write whatever he wants

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Actually....yes.

He has the success of the first Madoka TV series behind him. I'd say it gives him more leeway to write whatever he wants

The original Star Wars was a massive success, vastly dwarfing Madoka Magica. Did it justify George Lucas writing whatever he wanted with the Star Wars prequels?

Honestly, I think that success should bring with it greater concern for the fans, because now you have a large group of fans emotionally invested in your work. No, you probably can't please them all, but I think there's benefit in trying to please most of them at least.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The original Star Wars was a massive success, vastly dwarfing Madoka Magica. Did it justify George Lucas writing whatever he wanted with the Star Wars prequels?

Honestly, I think that success should bring with it greater concern for the fans, because now you have a large group of fans emotionally invested in your work. No, you probably can't please them all, but I think there's benefit in trying to please most of them at least.

I don't care about SW but although the prequels suck, I wouldn't grudge him writing them if that's what he actually wanted.

Better a crappy work than a sour tasting one because the writer actually loathes it. I can't actually bring myself to like a work if I knew it was painful for the creator to make it.

[Auria]

This weekend there was an Anime convention in Bonn, Germany, which also Gen Urobuchi and Takaki Kosaka of nitro+ attended. I caught pretty much every question in the Q&A panels; you can find a full transcription here: http://pastebin.com/BHgRHdZu They also talked about how the Gargantia anime came to be.

Some interesting questions concerning future releases:

Q: So I heard there will be a second season of Psycho-Pass, is that true?
A: Someone let it slip at a convention in the US, right? There is no deniying anymore that something is in production, but it does not necessarily has to be a second season.

Q: Are you involved in the ufotable F/SN remake? Heaven's Feel is the only route not adapted yet, and since Fate/Zero is closely related to it, I thought you could be involved.
A: I don't know a lot about it, I'm not involved. But if I remember correctly it's an Unlimited Blade Works adaption.

Q: Will there be a second season of Madoka Magica?
A: Nothing decided yet. [Note: The translator left that out, but I heard him saying "Ah, I can't talk about that yet" before saying that they haven't decided on anything yet.]

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Auria

Q: Are you involved in the ufotable F/SN remake? Heaven's Feel is the only route not adapted yet, and since Fate/Zero is closely related to it, I thought you could be involved.
A: I don't know a lot about it, I'm not involved. But if I remember correctly it's an Unlimited Blade Works adaption.

That... would be incredibly random. But this leads me to believe he might be mistaken on the route, but seems to indicate it's only a single route, and likely not the "base" (Fate) route. So still hope for HF, but could be UBW if Gen is right.

Q: How many timelines did Homura go through?
A: Approaching 100.

I like this one too, since there was a lot of debate about whether Homura only went through 5 or so loops (the ones shown) or if there were more.

[Shyni]

I was on the "more" side, honestly.

[Auria]

Originally Posted by GDB

That... would be incredibly random. But this leads me to believe he might be mistaken on the route, but seems to indicate it's only a single route, and likely not the "base" (Fate) route. So still hope for HF, but could be UBW if Gen is right.

Wondered about this as well, really wouldn't cancel out a misunderstanding or anything like that. Could be that he question was translated wrong too, only listened to the answers closely. But when the asking person said "but there is already an UBW adaption" after his answer, he still said "No, I really mean UBW". ?___?

[GDB]

Was that follow-up asked? Translation makes it seem like the only route stated was Heaven's Feel, and if he was already mixing up the routes in his head it could be easy to swap the two.

[Auria]

Originally Posted by GDB

Was that follow-up asked? Translation makes it seem like the only route stated was Heaven's Feel, and if he was already mixing up the routes in his head it could be easy to swap the two.

If I remember correctly the translator added that follow-up, yes. But Urobuchi looked confused and not sure of himself during that question too, so I'm not really sure what to make of it.

[Shyni]

This part in the Q&A stood out for me:

Q: Is Homura in love with Madoka?
A: Probably.

Q: Why did you choose to portray a homosexual love?
A: I don't think it is that special - a really strong friendship turns into a lovelike-relationship without the sexual attraction, in their case.

This makes all those pervert Homura fanart more creepy.

I don't mean to sound homphobic or anything like that, just that none of Homura's actions ever expressed sexual attraction in the slightest. Then again, maybe a lot of characters are like that.

[Triple_R]

That's quite the explosive answer from Gen, given that he is the author of Madoka Magica, and given how popular HomuMado is as a shipping.

While I certainly do respect the intent and aims of the author, I have a hard time imagining a person sacrificing for another as Homura did for Madoka without the sacrificial person having a strong familial and/or romantic love for the one s/he is sacrificing for. Since Homura and Madoka are not family, that only leaves romantic love, imo. Remember, we're now talking a hundred timelines, and someone that Homura initially knew only for a month or so. There almost has to be a degree of real romantic passion here.

That being said, I also think that Homura's love for Madoka is not rooted much in physical attraction (just contrast it with, say, Railgun's Kuroko's fondness for Mikoto and this becomes clear). I don't think that Homura would ever be able to do anything sexually suggestive towards Madoka without Madoka's complete consent. Which is largely why I was never fond of the more perverted Homura fanart. It just doesn't suit her character at all. And it's now clear that Madoka Magica's author himself would agree.

[Sheba]

I have experienced that kind of "bromantic" friendship, a friendship so strong that it got my parents very worried for me, that I might be homosexual and indulge in that kind of thing (that friend of mine would belong to the Gentle Giant category). It's that kind of level of friendship where we sometimes we didn't need to talk to understand each other.

Long story short, I can understand Homura's level of dedication and while I can understand why yuri fans view this through yuri goggles, I can only shake my head and think that those, and fujoshi alike, won't ever get what this kind of friendship is unless they one day experience it themselves.

[Archon_Wing]

I don't necessarily think that it has to be romantic. It would certainly make me think oddly of HxH then, lol. It can be the type of thing that turns into a romance, but it's entirely possible for such a relationship to not having to be that way.

Perhaps it's the show's fault to not overtly display why Homura was following Madoka around in the first place-- actually it was far more subtle-- but it's because Homura didn't have much to live for until Madoka gave her hope. These kinds of people are very important in life, and I doubt you'd be in love with all of them. It's certainly possible to fall in love, but it might not even the best for people.

A good example is Mai and Sayuri from Kanon, where one follows the other one around because the other has been one of the few "special" people in life.

But you might ask. "Well, Homura didn't even know her for that long". Well, by the mechanics of the timelines, she is far more than a life long friend.

It's much, much easier, to claim a romantic relationship between their obvious counterparts in Nanoha and Fate. You might want to even say that Nanoha is also very central to Fate's life, but in their case, things managed to settle down, and even as they branched out and got more connections in life, including close relationships with others, that they still remain critical to each other. Well, at least Fate to Nanoha; I'm not sure what the hell Nanoha is thinking at times, tbh. That, and writers' intent is obvious.

So I'm not saying this is not likely, but I think there are bonds that supercede what we typically place as the strongest relationships, and a sense of loyalty is something that supersedes most of them. The strongest buildings crumble, marriages can end in divorce with both heading their separate ways, countries dissolve and fall but the undying loyalty between those that care for each other might as well outlast the universe itself.

I must say though, considering how clingy and devoted some of my favorite characters are, I seem to have quite a thing for this so I am just going to say I'm going to blindly accept what they consider happiness to be, whatever it may be.

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by Shyni

This part in the Q&A stood out for me:



This makes all those pervert Homura fanart more creepy.

I don't mean to sound homphobic or anything like that, just that none of Homura's actions ever expressed sexual attraction in the slightest. Then again, maybe a lot of characters are like that.

I'm honestly guessing that Urobuchi and Shinbo had different trains of thought here; keep in mind, Shinbo did scatter random yuri references here and there, tho nothing that would really mean much unless you have experience with yuri anime in general. (and Nanoha. Maybe that counts...or not ) Personally, even though the writer has the last and final word, the writer and director might not be sharing the same opinion...

Also, this is Urobuchi, who's known for trolling, and while I'm not really thinking of this as trolling, I'm not ruling it out either (especially since hints of yuri exist in a lot of his series.) Plus, you could argue that it could be another timeline/universe...which I'm not going to go further into because that's a whole new worm cannery.

Of course, I do agree that generally, the "Perverted Homura" meme seems out of character, but hey, fans can create what they want, and it gives me a good laugh once in a while.

Personally I think Kyouko x Sayaka is a much better fit, because their pairing does seem to fit several classical legends (and we all know how much Madoka Magica allude to those.) And going by the different universe/timelines theory, anything can happen...

[Fireminer]

Well, this is the first time that I have ever seen anything like this, so you could say that I am a bit overwhelmed. But all I could say is a sentence of Confusian: "Don't do things that you don't want the other to do with you." But also, remember that nothing last the time without revolutionzed itself. Even love and honor. So be like water, or a bamboo: Nothing could bring down.

[Shyni]

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

I'm honestly guessing that Urobuchi and Shinbo had different trains of thought here; keep in mind, Shinbo did scatter random yuri references here and there, tho nothing that would really mean much unless you have experience with yuri anime in general. (and Nanoha. Maybe that counts...or not ) Personally, even though the writer has the last and final word, the writer and director might not be sharing the same opinion...

Also, this is Urobuchi, who's known for trolling, and while I'm not really thinking of this as trolling, I'm not ruling it out either (especially since hints of yuri exist in a lot of his series.) Plus, you could argue that it could be another timeline/universe...which I'm not going to go further into because that's a whole new worm cannery.

Of course, I do agree that generally, the "Perverted Homura" meme seems out of character, but hey, fans can create what they want, and it gives me a good laugh once in a while.

Well, I'm not sure if yuri references even mean anything for sexuality. Based on the "homosexuality in anime" thread, most anime are far from a believable portrayal of human sexuality.

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

Personally I think Kyouko x Sayaka is a much better fit, because their pairing does seem to fit several classical legends (and we all know how much Madoka Magica allude to those.) And going by the different universe/timelines theory, anything can happen...

That pairing bugs me quite a bit. The two of them never seemed to agree on anything, and there were a couple of times they would've tried to kill each other if not for Homura and Madoka interfering.

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by Shyni

Well, I'm not sure if yuri references even mean anything for sexuality. Based on the "homosexuality in anime" thread, most anime are far from a believable portrayal of human sexuality.

Under that logic, you could probably make them into anything you want to. Homo, hetero, hey, why not.

Plus, from what I remember, Urobuchi himself stated that he didn't see why two girls should not be able to marry each other. Combined with the fact that Urobuchi tends to put in lesbian relationships in his series a lot, and it becomes hard to see that there isn't at least a high possibility that the girls are in a romantic relationship, sexually (this one I do doubt) or not.

Originally Posted by Shyni

That pairing bugs me quite a bit. The two of them never seemed to agree on anything, and there were a couple of times they would've tried to kill each other if not for Homura and Madoka interfering.

To be fair, that arc was probably the worst-written arc in the series, since neither character was allowed to develop much before their deaths.

However, scroll down to the bottom of this section;
http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Yuri_und...d_Yuri_Subtext

While I kinda doubt the Melusine Legend part, 99% chance that the link to the Unicorn Legend part is, in my opinion, correct, because I doubt that the producers would have bothered to put on the scene with the wind chimes otherwise (and plus the double-suicide thing which is common in both Japanese and Western storytelling along with the 4 manga pages below that section). And if anyone listened to the song "And I'm Home" included in the BD set, it's hard to interpret that song without thinking "yuri".

In all honesty, even if Urobuchi didn't intend for yuri pairings at first, it might as well be official now; I'm guessing that the heavy popularity of pairings caused the artists to create more "yuri" scenes in manga and to include more relationship hints in the Blu-Ray disks. Just my analysis though.

[BaKaBaKaOtaKu]

Originally Posted by Shyni

That pairing bugs me quite a bit. The two of them never seemed to agree on anything, and there were a couple of times they would've tried to kill each other if not for Homura and Madoka interfering.

So much agree with this. I was once a fan of the pairing until I realized how much they do not fit in a romantic way. They aren't the type to give and take. They're more like the type of push and push. Their interaction felt so contrived to me that I can't take them to heart and just end up looking away from the screen or wanting to skip the part. Add with the poor development of their characters towards each other. I can somehow see them as friends, but as something more than that, no.

IMO Homura and Madoka is the only pair I can interpret romantically regardless of whatever Urobuchi says. I do think when he said that about Homura and Madoka he was just being careful of his words so not to alienate some people. He can be a bit confusing and contradictory at times though I'm excited for the 3rd movie though.

[Triple_R]

Well, I vaguely recall reading Urobuchi say in an interview that he struggles with romances. So I think that's something that perhaps should be kept in mind here. If he struggles with romances, he might be disinclined to view the most important character relationships in his works as romantic in nature. He may be more comfortable viewing them as platonic friendships.


I have mixed feelings on KyouSaya.

Some of the very best doujins I've read are KyouSaya. These tend to be very well-written for yuri doujins. I won't deny that they're also kinda hot.

I also think that Kyouko's sudden and incredible in-canon 180 towards Sayaka is actually best explained by Kyouko having/developing a serious attraction for Sayaka.

However, what Sayaka felt for Kyouko at Episode 8 of PMMM is largely a matter of speculation. Sayaka did open up a bit to Kyouko there, so I wouldn't completely rule out a hypothetical KyouSaya romance. So I think there's room there for KyouSaya shippers to support it, but I certainly don't think it's definitive.

With Madoka Magica, I think it's best to keep an open-mind about shippings and romance possibilities, though I will say that HomuMado can probably be viewed as a sort of presumed canon pairing in the same way that NanoFate are. It's not 100% unquestionable, but it is the most believable possible romance in Madoka Magic (well, amongst yuri options at least).