Fate/Zero - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[Haak]

Well I ended up watching it...

...not sure if it was worth it through...

[White Manju Bun]

Ok even Ill admit going from an epic fight btwn Kirei and Emiya to Saber suddenly stabbing Lance, I was like...wait...did I miss something? But Kirei and Emiya's fight made up for it, animation was stunning.

I will say that Gil's "proposal" to Saber at the end made me laugh

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Haak

Well I ended up watching it...

...not sure if it was worth it through...

This is why I hold on rating it. I am not sure until I have seen the real deal. As it stand now, it is a 7/10 for me.

[SRanger]

A bit confuzzled regarding Kirei's use of his command spells and how he's effortlessly blocking and dodging all of Kerry's bullets and Contender magic bullets?

What exactly did he command using his spells to do what he's doing? Is he using a combination of command spells and his own strength to do that 'mega ultimate punch' that sends Kerry flying?

[Horse]

Originally Posted by SRanger

What exactly did he command using his spells to do what he's doing?

According to the nico script he just uses them as a mana source for his own magicks. No "commands" required. The bullets should fuck all the mana of the target up but since Kirei isn't using his own mana but of the command seal instead it's not doing anything to him... (At least that's what I got from it.)

[Touko]

Originally Posted by SRanger

A bit confuzzled regarding Kirei's use of his command spells and how he's effortlessly blocking and dodging all of Kerry's bullets and Contender magic bullets?

What exactly did he command using his spells to do what he's doing? Is he using a combination of command spells and his own strength to do that 'mega ultimate punch' that sends Kerry flying?

The Origin Round works by disrupting Magic Circuits. Basically, using spells against Kiritsugu is risky, since casting spells requires activating Circuits, and that makes you vulnerable to the Origin Rounds.

Kotomine is a relatively weak as a mage, so he used the extra Command Spells as a source of prana instead of his under-developed Circuits. The Command Spells themselves are condensed miracles, and are packed full of prana.

By tapping into the Command Spells, Kotomine was able to not only cast spells, but augment them to levels way beyond normal. In the novel, he actually reinforced his arms so strongly, they deflected bullets (instead of in the anime, the bullets actually pierced his arm).

The positive side effect of burning Command Spells for prana is that, being hit by the Origin Round only fries the Command Spell, instead of your own Circuits. This caught Kiritsugu completely off guard.

EDIT:

Also, I don't think they named it in the anime, but Kotomine is a master in Bajiquan, one of the most potent form of martial arts in Nasuverse.

[Double_Edge]

Anyone else not happy with Emiya?

This guy has to be one of the stupidest protagonists I have ever seen. He sees the world in black and white, and this episode further emphasizes that he is just a psycho.

And this anime has really been skimping on the fights. The fights are way to far apart from each other with huge amounts of dialogue in between. I wish they would have gone with the cliched anime approach: Talk while you fight.

Berserker is my favorite character. it is a shame that his first fight with saber was way better than his last one.

EDIT: Also, how many more episodes are left? Does this series have 25 or 26 episodes?

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by Double_Edge

Anyone else not happy with Emiya?

This guy has to be one of the stupidest protagonists I have ever seen. He sees the world in black and white, and this episode further emphasizes that he is just a psycho.

And this anime has really been skimping on the fights. The fights are way to far apart from each other with huge amounts of dialogue in between. I wish they would have gone with the cliched anime approach: Talk while you fight.

Berserker is my favorite character. it is a shame that his first fight with saber was way better than his last one.

EDIT: Also, how many more episodes are left? Does this series have 25 or 26 episodes?

....wait, what did Kiritsugu do in this episode that was psychotic?

[Double_Edge]

Slaughtering 2 ships full of people? He is capable of escaping to the other ship.

Instead of killing the ship that took him captive, why not just fix the ship instead of taking their lives himself? He's already on the ship. Why not fix it and at least try to get to the next one in time.


Also the second time he blew up a ship, it was so close to the docks.

The reasoning that it saves the majority doesn't play out well. Even though the results WOULD be the same, leaving the minority out to dry to save the majority is completely different from killing the minority to save the majority.

EDIT: And I'm not saying that the shiop scenario really happened. Either way, it points to Emiya being a psycho. If it did happen, he massacred 300 people. If it did not happen, he would be willing to massacre 300 people.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Double_Edge

And this anime has really been skimping on the fights. The fights are way to far apart from each other with huge amounts of dialogue in between. I wish they would have gone with the cliched anime approach: Talk while you fight.

The anime didn't skimp on fights. This is how fights were in the novel. Fate/Zero is not about fights, the Grail War itself is secondary to the plot/characters.

I don't how you manage to watch this many eps and didn't get it.

EDIT: Also, how many more episodes are left? Does this series have 25 or 26 episodes?

1, Ep1 was a double ep.

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by Double_Edge

Slaughtering 2 ships full of people? He is capable of escaping to the other ship.

Instead of killing the ship that took him captive, why not just fix the ship instead of taking their lives himself? He's already on the ship. Why not fix it and at least try to get to the next one in time.


Also the second time he blew up a ship, it was so close to the docks.

The reasoning that it saves the majority doesn't play out well. Even though the results WOULD be the same, leaving the minority out to dry to save the majority is completely different from killing the minority to save the majority.

EDIT: And I'm not saying that the shiop scenario really happened. Either way, it points to Emiya being a psycho. If it did happen, he massacred 300 people. If it did not happen, he would be willing to massacre 300 people.

.....huh?


First off, the situation is hypothetical, which means an answer like "I'll try to fix both ships" won't work.

And Kiritsugu's always been about the results. That's his belief, and frankly given the crap he's been through, there's no way I could tell him he's wrong. Is your moral integrity really worth the 100 extra lives that would be saved?

[Double_Edge]

I get that this series is not all about action. I could tell from the first episode that it would be a slow series. Doesn't change the fact that there aren't many action scenes though.

And like I've said, it doesn't matter whether the ship scenario happened or not. No normal person would be capable of such acts and actually carry it out. Only a psychopath would. His obsession with "saving the world" doesn't help his case either.

But I'm looking at this from a normal perspective. In anime world, maybe it could work. It's still a little suspect though.

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by Double_Edge

I get that this series is not all about action. I could tell from the first episode that it would be a slow series. Doesn't change the fact that there aren't many action scenes though.

And like I've said, it doesn't matter whether the ship scenario happened or not. No normal person would be capable of such acts and actually carry it out. Only a psychopath would. His obsession with "saving the world" doesn't help his case either.

But I'm looking at this from a normal perspective. In anime world, maybe it could work. It's still a little suspect though.

Except I don't really get what you mean by "psychotic." Most people couldn't kill their own wife and daughter. He did. Is he psychotic for doing so? Most couldn't kill their adopted mother. He did, to prevent a zombie apocalypse. Is he psychotic for doing so?

Maybe it's just for me, but judging him for that may not be psychotic, but it's certainly sanctimonious.

[kuroishinigami]

Originally Posted by Double_Edge

I get that this series is not all about action. I could tell from the first episode that it would be a slow series. Doesn't change the fact that there aren't many action scenes though.

And like I've said, it doesn't matter whether the ship scenario happened or not. No normal person would be capable of such acts and actually carry it out. Only a psychopath would. His obsession with "saving the world" doesn't help his case either.

But I'm looking at this from a normal perspective. In anime world, maybe it could work. It's still a little suspect though.

Then let's speak hypotetically(assuming you're not here just to troll but to discuss). Assume you're on a ship filled with 800 strangers drifted in the middle of a sea full of hungry sharks. Due to malfunction, the ship malfunction and it can't hold more than 401 persons without sinking(and effectively killed all 801 people) in 5 minutes, which means no time to wait for help. Now, you hold a switch that will throw 400 people off the boat and effectively saves the other 400(401 including yourself, or even better, assume the last 1 person is another stranger and you're holding the switch from outside the situation). Now, what will you do? Do you :

A. Push the switch and saves 401 people?
B. Run away from the responsibility by shoving the switch to someone else?
C. Throw the switch away and let all 801 people dead?

There's no wrong answer in this dilemma actually, and kiritsugu choose A every time. Now, which one do you choose? And assume you choose A, which one will you choose if 3 hours later you face the same dillema and the boat can only hold 201 people? And which one will you choose if the dillema continue until there's only 3 person left(and the help only come by then).

[kk2extreme]

Does Kerry really need 2 command seals for Saber to destroy the grail? He could save one for emergency

[GDB]

She was resisting, so yes. If not, she could've resisted long enough for Gilgamesh to interfere, or long enough for the grail to act up/for one of the Servants to try and use it.

[Ithekro]

If Saber won't do it with one, than yes.

(Saber's not going to be happy about this)

[kuroishinigami]

Servant saber got a naturally high magic resistance. Add that with arturia's natural high magic resistance, she got enough magic resistance to ressist one command spell that she's unwilling to do(happenin fate stay night too)

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

For me, there's also the fact that there's other scenes that while more important than loli-Rin, I think could have been cut out in favor of the Saber-Berserker battle. Kariya getting that worm shoved in him and Waver's scene with his grandpa are the first two I think of. They're good scenes, but I'd rather give that battle more time.

The only way of fixing this is more time. You cannot cut anything out. Taking Waver's scene with his "grandpa" out would have been horrible. It attributed to his character. Same with Kariya.

There are times where things, like fillers, could be left out but this is not one of them.

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by kk2extreme

Does Kerry really need 2 command seals for Saber to destroy the grail? He could save one for inmergency

What emergency? When Saber destroys the grail, war's over, and she vanishes. So he wouldn't have a chance to use it. Besides, if she did stick around, he wouldn't really be able to use it anyways, because she would be pissed at him beyond all measure, and so he would need to keep the Seal to protect himself, meaning he couldn't use it for some emergency.