Evangelion Rebuild 3.0: You can (not) Redo [Evangelion Shin Gekijouban: Q]

[Lenneth4]

3.33>2.22>1.01

That movie was awesome from the beginning to the very ending

except for the 4.0 teaser

really anno?

ANyway the first teaser of 2.0 wasn't made into the film
I was expecting a battle on the moon

Maybe it will be in the final

Anyway i loved that movie so much , and the nadia music was a nice touch hahaha

ANd now i'm sure
ANno is my favorite japanese artist
The best director
can't wait to see him on the next miyazadude movie

[solomon]

I'm torn.

I liked the whole rebuild thing more the second time around watching them.

The movies visuals are SEX ON FILM.

The narrative style IS more conventional.

But meehhhhhh, I think they're doing too much stuff JUST to do it without context............We still have yet to understand WHY Mari is there (and why we should care aside from having great character goods).

Why exactly a timeskip, seems REALLY left field, they need explanations......

Everyone being huge dick/bitch to Shinji is okaaayyyy but like I read on Kotaku, if someone just EXPLAINED to him what happened, there would be no movie so..........................

Ummmm, yea. It's weird. I mean I'd buy some version of it just cause it's SOOOO FUCKING PRETTY but meehhhhh it's gonna be interesting how they tie everything up in the last movie cause they seem to just go sooo far left field without a lot of story logic........

Meh. It was fun but I hope they tie everything up nice in the last movie when it comes out during the End of Time.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by solomon

But meehhhhhh, I think they're doing too much stuff JUST to do it without context............We still have yet to understand WHY Mari is there (and why we should care aside from having great character goods).

Why exactly a timeskip, seems REALLY left field, they need explanations......

Everyone being huge dick/bitch to Shinji is okaaayyyy but like I read on Kotaku, if someone just EXPLAINED to him what happened, there would be no movie so..........................

Ummmm, yea. It's weird. I mean I'd buy some version of it just cause it's SOOOO FUCKING PRETTY but meehhhhh it's gonna be interesting how they tie everything up in the last movie cause they seem to just go sooo far left field without a lot of story logic........

Meh. It was fun but I hope they tie everything up nice in the last movie when it comes out during the End of Time.

Dude, it's evangelion, you are (not) meant to be given explanation about everything. If that's the kind of problem you have, you shouldn't even have watched NGE. That's not even a good quality shitposting anymore.

And Mari ... I got a gift from 4chan here. It's obviously not 100% accurate or certain and it doesn't answer every question, but still a good beginning for those like me who are too lazy to use their brain themselves or can't think properly anymore.

Spoiler for Mari?:

[RRW]

[desrtsku]

^ Made my day!

[Helius]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

And Mari ... I got a gift from 4chan here. It's obviously not 100% accurate or certain and it doesn't answer every question, but still a good beginning for those like me who are too lazy to use their brain themselves or can't think properly anymore.

Spoiler for Mari?:

Interesting theory. Althouh personally I think she's a double/multiple agent like Kaji and since they already know each other they're quite likely connected (Bethany Base, "infiltrating" Nerv at the same time), with their own agendas in play.

[desrtsku]

Oh shit, that's right! What happened to kaji!?

[brocko]

Unknown. Either he got offed in the 14 year time skip or he's around... somewhere.... lol

One theory that seems pretty popular is that he founded the WILLE organisation and that the Marine Research Facility he took everyone to in 2.0 is acting as a both a military base for WILLE HQ (given how navel like the Wunder and WILLE are in the movie) and as a refugee site for what's left of humanity (showing that he's more interested in preserving life rather than chasing after Gods and evolution unlike Nerv and SEELE. This agrees with his plant and watermelon growing hobbies as well)

[Helius]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

What happened to kaji!?

If I get a penny...

[Zaresh]

Originally Posted by Bri

I'm sure a lot of people outside of Japan felt the same way. The characterization is what made Eva special. The flaws, the self destructive drive and their motives made each character to a certain degree sympathetic. I hadn't seen anything like it at the time. Eva also fit right in with the mood at the time, the grunge/emo period, Y2K etc. If one cannot see past the window dressing, that is their loss.

Sympathetic? As far as I can remember, I couldn't identify myself with any of them at all, and thus I could feel them. I mean, I wasn't the most perfect person in the world, I had, and still have, a lot of flaws, and neither my life wasn't a pink road of roses. But I couldn't find any way in which I could feel myself identified with any of them. They were pretty annoying, not symphathetic. I think they were too much flawered to me. I can now understand that that was the whole point of those characters, but I still can't get how people felt they were characters they could pity or identify with.

Unless they were teenagers or had emotional problems. Or maybe they didn't have any problem in their whole lifes. I honestly don't know, and I don't want to offend anyone.

But in Rebuild, at least in this movie, I can pity Shinji. Poor boy deserves explanations and the right to grow, even if it's traumatic for him, goddammit.

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by Zaresh

Sympathetic? As far as I can remember, I couldn't identify myself with any of them at all, and thus I could feel them. I mean, I wasn't the most perfect person in the world, I had, and still have, a lot of flaws, and neither my life wasn't a pink road of roses. But I couldn't find any way in which I could feel myself identified with any of them. They were pretty annoying, not symphathetic. I think they were too much flawered to me. I can now understand that that was the whole point of those characters, but I still can't get how people felt they were characters they could pity or identify with.

Unless they were teenagers or had emotional problems. Or maybe they didn't have any problem in their whole lifes. I honestly don't know, and I don't want to offend anyone.

I was not saying that viewers necessarily identified with one of the characters, but that their behavior was very close to familiar real life equivalents, but in a very imaginative setting, unlike IRL. Also compared to the mainstream anime of the time, the TV Eva was very different, but still relate-able and accessible... well, until the main plot kicked in which confused many... and that was one of the problems with all the movies (Reconstruct/EoE/Rebuild), they set the character development on the sidelines and focused on explaining and expanding the plot... which from the reactions I keep reading, don't do very well.

Originally Posted by Zaresh

But in Rebuild, at least in this movie, I can pity Shinji. Poor boy deserves explanations and the right to grow, even if it's traumatic for him, goddammit.

The less developed characters are, the easier it is to like and relate to them, since one uses his own experience to fill in the missing background. That of course, is not a good thing storytelling-wise, but very efficient commercially. All in all it boils down to what the producer wants, tell a story or sell one.

[Jan-Poo]

I remember an old discussion I had somewhere in this forum where I argued that Shinji was never meant to be a character to sympathize with.

He can be pitied, definitely, but he isn't a cool guy, nor someone who deserves respect or admiration.

If one had some doubts End of Eva should have completely removed them. Seriously... it seems that Anno even went as far as purposely making him look despicable. Definitely not someone people would want to identify with.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Zaresh

Sympathetic? As far as I can remember, I couldn't identify myself with any of them at all, and thus I could feel them. I mean, I wasn't the most perfect person in the world, I had, and still have, a lot of flaws, and neither my life wasn't a pink road of roses. But I couldn't find any way in which I could feel myself identified with any of them. They were pretty annoying, not symphathetic. I think they were too much flawered to me. I can now understand that that was the whole point of those characters, but I still can't get how people felt they were characters they could pity or identify with.

Unless they were teenagers or had emotional problems. Or maybe they didn't have any problem in their whole lifes. I honestly don't know, and I don't want to offend anyone.

But in Rebuild, at least in this movie, I can pity Shinji. Poor boy deserves explanations and the right to grow, even if it's traumatic for him, goddammit.

Each character in Eva represents (although in an extreme form) a way people deal with loneliness and disappointments. It's probably easier to explain with an example. Take Asuka, her need to perform and show off and aggression are derived from personal insecurity and a need to be acknowledged by her mother.

It's logical that a character like Asuka would despise some one as weak willed as Shinji. He became the thing she always worked hard for to achieve, an Eva pilot, simply by being the son of the boss. This doesn't make Asuka any nicer, but more sympathetic to the viewer, as you are aware of why she acts the way she does. The fact that she can't win and set's herself up for failure time and time again adds a tone of sadness to the character. This is far more sympathetic imo than typical abusive tsunderes which for the most part are simple one-dimensional jerks who compensate their nasty side with cutesy behavior and get away with it.

Shinji needed to be a bit more positive in the first and second movie, otherwise the smack down in the third movie wouldn't have worked. And it seems to have worked as you felt pity. There would not have been much drama or purpose in breaking EoE Shinji even further, that is just sadism.

[Reckoner]

OK. So I finally saw the film and yep it was a big piece of turd, but not even for the reasons I expected (Well at the least the major reasons).

One of the inklings of hope I was hanging onto going into this film was that it was the first real chance to peer into Anno's intentions in revisiting this franchise. Rebuild 1.0 and 2.0 roughly covered the same ground of the TV series, so this is finally completely new and foreign territory for the franchise. Expectations of getting answers was foolish though, as Eva 3.0 actually raises more questions than it even begins to answer.

Seriously. Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to completely reimagine the Evangelion universe this late into the series? Most of the original cast was severely underdeveloped to begin with as they were crunched by time limitations... Their solution? Derp, lets throw in a bunch of new side characters! Lets change all the details about the angels and everything else about the world as we know it! This decision was incredibly poor.

Even then, the film after rapid fire showing more and more new plot elements it still doesn't even take time to explain anything it introduces. On one hand you could say this helps immerse the viewer in Shinji's frantic and confused point of view, but the nonexistence of any contextual basis for the character's actions and ongoing events only serves to bewilder the audience (And not in a classic Eva mind screw way).

What thing I have come to realize is that there's no point in trying to understand these films since it has now twice thrown out everything it was. No, this is not simply a tonal change or change of direction, but a completely different style story being told in each of the 3 films. We've gone from the original series in 1.0 to some stupid generic hot blooded mecha tale with school hijinks in 2.0, to now some epic space opera style story with technology that came out of nowhere in 3.0. I mean what the fuck? The Rebuild series is EXTREMELY disjointed and ends up feeling directionless as a result.

The most perplexing feature of the film though has got to be the fact that it is so uneventful. In totality there are only like 4 total scene places. The space battle, the naval battle, NERV head quarters (Or what's left of it), and the final battle. After the film ends, basically nothing has been accomplished other than suposedly SEELE's plan getting foiled and Shinji breaking down.

To that end I really have to ask why. Rebuild 2.0 made a point of showing a more assertive Shinji , so why the fuck did Anno decide to just trash what he was doing in previous film? I didn't like the direction change with his character to begin with, but it's even more annoying that he decides to backpedal with his character all of a sudden. The funniest part about Shinji's degradation over the course of the film is that it is completely nonsensical and irrational. Misato and Mari Sue convinced Shinji to make the decisions that initated third impact and Misato even was rooting for him during it! Now all of a sudden they turn around and start blaming him for destroying the world? What the flying fuck? Lets not forget that no one was capable of stopping Zeruel and if Shinji did nothing we would have seen the complete end of the world. Yeah, Shinji was basically treated badly in the film for no rational or sensible reason.

Similarly, why did they make Rei emotionless again like the original TV series, if they REALLY wanted to go in a different direction with her character in Eva 2.0? It really feels like Anno tossed away everything he was going for in 2.0, which is even more dubious because I hated those changes to begin with. It's just flip flopping.

This just underscores that things happen in Rebuild no longer because it is a logical and sensible outcome of what preceded it, but simply because the plot demands it. Anno wanted Shinji to break down, so he did through highly contrived and aggravating reasons. Honestly, what other reason would he have for doing this? If he's ultimately going to go to the same place that he went in the original series (Unless they pull another very possible bait-and-switch), then what was the point to Rebuild? It would neither be a successful replacement, nor a successful alternative to Neon Genesis Evangelion.

Now you know you were going to get it, so again I have to point out... Why the fuck is Mari in this film series? After being introduced in 2.0 she has YET to receive any actual character development and we have no idea what purpose she serves whatsoever. Her personality is ill-fit for the Evangelion universe as well and belongs in some standard bullshit badly written light novel than what is supposed to be an intense/complex apocalyptic mecha tale. Worse, any role she has taken in the film thus far is just usurping other character's roles. She took away Kaiji's epic speech in 2.0, and else wise is just taking away Asuka's screen time. I mean wut.

I must also point out that I felt a lot more for Kaworu's character in a 20 minute or so episode in the original TV series than I did in this entire film. Really poor use of screen time here.

Oh and yeah, I'm supposed to feel happy about getting all my awesome Asuka screen time this movie yeah? Sorry, but having her fighting in a mecha the whole time doesn't constitute much meaningful screen time. She is still underdeveloped, and she still feels like nothing more than a generic tsundere.

The curse of the Eva is the stupidest plot device I have ever seen. Why have a 14 year time skip if they just want to keep the characters the same more or less? Oh yeah, all this fancy new technology that somehow got made while the world was ending! LOL. The writing here is too rich.

About the only redeemable aspect of the film is its visuals. The only thing rebuild is better at than the original NGE (Though I still like EoE better visually), is as a popcorn brainless action-fest. Yeah, no this isn't why I came to like Evangelion, so it doesn't make it a good film. I also happen to not really like the sound track of the movies too much.


-------

Anyhow, I've come to the conclusion that Anno really doesn't know what the fuck he is doing in these movies. He sold out for money and it couldn't be anymore clear after this film. It's a poorly written film, and an even poorer sequel.

4/10

[RRW]

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[Zaresh]

Originally Posted by Bri

Each character in Eva represents (although in an extreme form) a way people deal with loneliness and disappointments. It's probably easier to explain with an example. Take Asuka, her need to perform and show off and aggression are derived from personal insecurity and a need to be acknowledged by her mother.

It's logical that a character like Asuka would despise some one as weak willed as Shinji. He became the thing she always worked hard for to achieve, an Eva pilot, simply by being the son of the boss. This doesn't make Asuka any nicer, but more sympathetic to the viewer, as you are aware of why she acts the way she does. The fact that she can't win and set's herself up for failure time and time again adds a tone of sadness to the character. This is far more sympathetic imo than typical abusive tsunderes which for the most part are simple one-dimensional jerks who compensate their nasty side with cutesy behavior and get away with it.

Shinji needed to be a bit more positive in the first and second movie, otherwise the smack down in the third movie wouldn't have worked. And it seems to have worked as you felt pity. There would not have been much drama or purpose in breaking EoE Shinji even further, that is just sadism.

Sure, for Asuka is a logical behaviour. But that doesn't mean I can pity her. I think she's acting stupidly.

[Sackett]

@Reckoner

This is why I've concluded that Rebuild is not a stand alone remake of the Eva series.

It's additional commentary on top of the original series.

Specifically, Rebuild is what is happening in Shinji's mind during the whole 3rd Impact he initiated in the original series.

One significant weakness of the original series was that Shinji had this character development in the last 2 episodes, but none of that development was actually shown. It was rather quick.

I think that is Anno's main regret about EVA, and what is motivating him to revisit the series.

Rebuild as Shinji's mind during 3rd Impact makes enormous sense of the whiplash going on.

Rebuild 1 was just Shinji reliving his first few battles as an Eva pilot. But this time he is more assertive, more fully engaged in the loop, and makes a stronger connection with Rei. It's the start of his dream state where he will "do it better" this time.

Rebuild 2 becomes full blown fantasy for Shinji. He becomes even closer to Rei, and she is working to heal the rift between him and his father. Asuka is even cooler and more badasss then in the original series, she's so high above him. Yet this Asuka is actually nicer to Shinji then the original. Plus she dresses up in sexy plugsuits. These are all fitting fantasies for Shinji.

But Shinji's mind starts rejecting this setup. It can't be real because Shinji cannot accept a happy ending for himself. The fantasy begins to break down. Asuka is now the one piloting the tainted Eva, and Shinji will be forced to kill her. (Again shades of End of Evangelion). Rei is going to be absorbed into third impact. Nothing can be done to save her.

Shinji's consciousness struggles against this breakdown. He will force a happy ending. For Rei at least, if for no one else. But he's not strong enough.

So Shinji's mind summons an external force that can save him. What figure is there that loves him and will do anything for him? Kaworu of course. So Kaworu appears and stops 3rd Impact.

Then we have Rebuild 3, which is the nightmare phase. Misato, Toji's sister, everyone. They all hate him. They hate him because he failed to prevent 3rd Impact. This is Shinji's fear from the original series, and his failure to stop 3rd Impact in the original series.

But Kaworu will provide a plan that will reverse this. Undo 3rd Impact. This represents Shinji's hope that he can undo his mistake in causing 3rd Impact, that he can make restitution and so people won't hate him any more. He won't have to hate himself anymore.

Of course it fails. Kaworu sacrifices himself for Shinji's sin. (This is how Shinji envisions their relationship). Shinji's mistake in the original series of causing 3rd Impact isn't something that can be fixed. It's hopeless.

Now he's back with Asuka and Rei III. Just like in End of Evangelion. Shinji will work out acceptance of his failure and become able to move on. And the 4th movie will end with him on that beach with Asuka. Just like in End of Evangelion.

Rebuild is just a visual representation of what is going on in Shinji's mind during End of Evangelion.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Zaresh

Sure, for Asuka is a logical behaviour. But that doesn't mean I can pity her. I think she's acting stupidly.

"Acting stupidly" was a key point in NGE's initial success at subverting the genre with the reactions of real people, though...

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Anyhow, I've come to the conclusion that Anno really doesn't know what the fuck he is doing in these movies.

I understand, now.
12deep14 you I guess

[Jan-Poo]

That sounds pretty cool Sackett even though I'm not quite sure it's true and even if it was I think it is really going to far to make 4 damn movies about it.

But assuming this is true and this is all a sort of dream like reminiscence inside Shinji's mind...

Just where the hell Mari comes from?! Who is she supposed to represent?

Some facts still don't seem to make sense anyway. I mean Shinji is secretly a grammar nazi and he was always bothered by "children" being used for singular individuals and he decided to go with "child" instead in his mind? Or Shinji was always bothered by the idea that his father took the family name of her mother instead of the opposite as it more often happens so he decided to fix it in his mind?


As much as people like to think that this isn't a retelling but some sort of sequel I don't think you can't deny that a lot of stuff has been rewritten.