Dating

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Ending

Anyway, I wouldn't expect anyone to be perfect. Her being zealously religious is a flaw, but then me being an atheist is also a flaw to her. Call it even. Yes, her religion shows, but only every Saturday and when she meets other religious people. Otherwise there is no mention of it and I don't see it as a pivotal point of our relationship. So don't point a finger at our difference in religion and say: "This! This right here is the reason!"
Because it's not. We are morally the same, except that she calls herself an adventist and I call myself atheist.

Hurr, no. Ask her how she determines her moral values, and I'll practically guarantee that her answer will put the lie to that statement of yours.

And really, I'm not buying this, because of what you said afterwards;

Yeah, this has to be added to the list too, since we had one argument about kids. She actually said that she wants them to love God more than life itself, more than their parents, and them becoming atheists would mean she had failed as a parent. It's slightly irritating, but I could live with it and let her go her way.

Also, she has tried to convert me too, going along the same lines: "I would want you to love God more than anything, more than me." To which I replied that if the Big Guy sends me an angel, in flesh, sure. But since she believes that only dead people can see angels, she blurted that she will be praying for my death. Speaking about a shocker. A mistake, but it did make me wonder.

The first point? A minor irritation now, but once you two are of age to have children, it will become a major issue, practically guaranteed.

The second point? Pretty much an obvious indication of the priority she's putting on the relationship, as well as a major underlying reason for it. You're concerned about how important you are to her? You'd be right, and this would be why.

The problem is everything else that's piling on top of it:
- Long separation and the threat of it becoming even longer, if she wants to keep her job
- Lack of intimacy (she went and changed the rules of our relationship, making it something I wouldn't had gone into if it had been so from the start)
- Her need to be independent (doesn't sound like she is ready to commit)
- Bunking with another guy (gay or not, friend or not). She lives in a poor country, mind.
- Contact with her ex, which to me is kinda no-no, but alone isn't a big deal
...And generally, the feeling that I'm not even in the top-5 of her priorities. She got her family, her school, friends, religion, her aspirations, and soon her job taking priority. It doesn't make me feel too good about my place in her life.

Two years is a long time and I guess what I'm wondering is that should I simply find another woman, who has less objections against coming together after a reasonable dating time.

You know what, at this point, I'm questioning why you're even feeling the need to consult us. Clear as day, open-and-shut, you two are utterly incompatible, and I'm sure you know this in your heart. Really, the only justification I can think of for your apparent last-ditch attempt to save your relationship, is if she's got a hot piece of ass (and knowing how Christian churches seem to attract hot pieces of ass by the dozen, it's a fairly decent bet. ). Really, you emphasise the LDR a great deal, but to me it's almost an afterthought at this point compared with all the other negative points you've written up about her.

So, yes. You're better off doing the hot potato thing, or if you're not the natural jerkass that I am, letting her down gently. To be honest, this kind of thing should have been over long ago.

[Tsuyoshi]

To be brutally honest, friend? I honestly don't believe this would end well if you two commit to something more long term. With all these issues you mention, it sounds more like she's distancing herself from you, be it intentional or not. The same exact thing happened with my ex, what with me being agnostic and her being a Muslim. Now, the problem wasn't the fact she was overly religious, but her family is made of hardline Muslims, and that made it really hard for me and her to commit to something, especially when she was very devoted to them from the start. Add to that the fact she was studying in China at the time made things worse. Because of all these things, and the fact I was becoming less and less of a priority to her, we had to break up and I tell you now, it was painful.

Your situation sounds very familiar to me so I need to tell you, if you plan on something more solid with her, like having kids, it's gonna be rough. My advice is this: break up with her, take some time to yourself, and when you feel ready, seek out another girl who is more open to possibilities, someone you can have easier discussions with and not worry about these differences and worries. This thing about her wanting her kids to love God more than life itself, more than themselves, would be slightly irritating even to MY parents, and they're pretty devout believers so that's saying a lot. A future with this girl, I find it pretty hard to swallow.

P.S. If I sounded rude, I do apologize for it was not my intention. I'm just trying to lay out what I make of your situation as clearly as I could.

[Ending]

Really, the only justification I can think of for your apparent last-ditch attempt to save your relationship, is if she's got a hot piece of ass

Ha, not really. But she is physically a good match never-the-less. Sadly, I'm one of those guys who would rather go through all options and stick to it before making the final call, because once I bend my mind over it, there won't be "us" ever again.

@ Tsuyoshi

Not rude. Almost like my case, word-to-word. Her family is hardline and she is very loyal to them. I have met them, though, and they have given their blessing. Interestingly, it's me who is heading to China

We agreed to have a month off. No contact at all and see how we feel after having a fresh start. That's when I gotta say would I go into this again or not. By the sound of the comments so far, I have every reason to say 'no.' Except for the feelings part, which is all 'yes' >.>

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Ending

Not rude. Almost like my case, word-to-word. Her family is hardline and she is very loyal to them. I have met them, though, and they have given their blessing. Interestingly, it's me who is heading to China

We agreed to have a month off. No contact at all and see how we feel after having a fresh start. That's when I gotta say would I go into this again or not. By the sound of the comments so far, I have every reason to say 'no.' Except for the feelings part, which is all 'yes' >.>

Circumstances may change in a month, could be on your end, could be on hers. I can understand that you feel so strongly for her, t'was the same for me. As ironic as it may sound, tho, feelings only take you so far. As far as I'm concerned, it ought to be otherwise, wherein if one feels for the other and vice versa, nothing else matters, and yes, not even religion. I give you credit for standing by that type of idea since you don't seem to mind her religion. It's more to do with her and her family (kudos to you that her fam is ok with you, I know my ex's fam would not, so you're in luck there at least ), but by the sound of it, she pays more tribute to God than the love she has for you.

Only recently, I attended a marriage where a couple did exactly that and you may as well have gone to Sunday mass for what it was worth. They were the type for that so all blessings and fortune to them. Your girl seems to be the type for that as well, tho I'm fairly certain you aren't, which is why I say that a future with her, if possible, is going to be really rough and sketchy. It's your call in the end, but take this from someone who'se pretty much been in your same position: either choice won't be easy, but staying by her will be much, much harder for you in the long run.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Mystique

Speaking as a Catholic here, I'll tell you what that translates to:

You see her as flawed.

Nothing more, nothing less. Break up, remain friends if you wish since you seem to get on well. Hearing that from a guy who I would have feelings for would break my heart if not destroy my confidence.
"He sees me as flawed..."

Everyone's flawed, nobody's perfect. Get used to and deal with it. I may love a person a great deal but I won't delude myself to think she's perfect cause that's simply not true, she'll just be the closest thing to perfect in my mind.

As for the whole religion subject I won't touch it out of fear of triggering a storm of off-topic that might go into flame mode in this thread. I have very strong belief in my lack of belief (pun intended).

However I'll add this: while it's not unusual for couples to have different religious ideals and, unless one or both are fundamentalists, it can workout given smart enough people to accept each others conflicting views. In your case Ending it seems like your mind is made up and honestly it would be better for both of you to break up but especially to you since you've made it pretty clear that she, unlike you, isn't apparently fully committed to the relationship.

[synaesthetic]

My fiancee is Buddhist. I am an atheist and scientific naturalist. A full third of my closest friends are Jewish.

None of us argue about religion. We only laugh at stupid fundies together.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Ending

We agreed to have a month off. No contact at all and see how we feel after having a fresh start. That's when I gotta say would I go into this again or not. By the sound of the comments so far, I have every reason to say 'no.' Except for the feelings part, which is all 'yes' >.>

Tsuyoshi and Saintess more or less summed up what I'd like to have replied.
You're taking the month break and your heart is tugging at it's strings, what you gonna do for yourself in the meantime to get back on track in life?

You mentioned more issues than religion (On her end, I guess at some point she'll ideally wanna convert you) - distance, lack of intimacy and the rest, it's so strained, it sounds like you're just staying together for the sake of doing so but it's making you both miserable at present. Friends and keeping in touch is always fine if you get on otherwise but 2 years and it's feeling this dire, sometimes shutting one door opens another to something better that's waiting for the both of ya, take your chances.

And mentioning religion doesn't automatically equal flaming unless people start trolling just to piss others off for no reason, otherwise there's no way on earth that the religion thread would have survived on Asuki all this time. It is sensitive though, so it's only natural that you'd get a few heated replies, take them in your stride as I have to do so with others

Originally Posted by Dextro

Everyone's flawed, nobody's perfect. Get used to and deal with it. I may love a person a great deal but I won't delude myself to think she's perfect cause that's simply not true, she'll just be the closest thing to perfect in my mind.

As for the whole religion subject I won't touch it out of fear of triggering a storm of off-topic that might go into flame mode in this thread. I have very strong belief in my lack of belief (pun intended).

^
*scratches her head in mild frustration* (-_-#)
Get used to it and deal with it, uh huh, like I didn't know that human beings are a messed up species by default but our imperfections are what make us interesting and unique however.
Where in my post which you failed to also quote did I harp on about wanting the 'perfect guy'?
The point was to stress out that certain levels of strain and conflict for things that are deeply enrooted in people (if they're set in their ways) are a source for distress and misery concerning relationships. He was relating the flaw aspect to her faith,
(to give Ending a break tho, he did follow up saying that she also sees the same in him since ideally I guess she'd want him on a similar level to her) which as we find out now is just one issue among others between him and his girl but that alone usually can make or break things, as in Tsuyoshi's case and with a close friend of mine, even if the couple somehow get around it, family can be another issue.

Just note that to find flaws with one faith is as integral as their race, gender, sexuality as well. Since for many atheists (not all before I get another reply for not stating out the obvious) cannot see or sense that importance, is why I point it out from time to time.
It's not so trivial as to say you find flaws with someone who is a stubborn ass, lazy or quick to temper or has other bad points that can be supported within a relationship.
(since it should ideally be bringing the good out of both people while they cover each other's backs).

In Endings' cause that doesn't seem to be the case at all sad to say.

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

My fiancee is Buddhist. I am an atheist and scientific naturalist. A full third of my closest friends are Jewish.

None of us argue about religion. We only laugh at stupid fundies together.

See, friend wise it isn't an issue.
We also don't have this whole 'fundie fundie' thing which probably as with a lot of things on Asuki, sticks me on a diff platform from Americans, cause you guys are frustrated with a lot more religion wise that what I'm used to or grew up with in London.

Fianceé wise, depending on which sect of Buddhism, most I know follow it in a similar way to the Japanese, they say their daily chants (some have alters) and have a liking for it's stance rather than devoting to any particular being. In that sense, it demands hardly anything, there's very little room for conflict.

Since most are letting sleeping dogs lie, I better do so too on the religion note. I've no issues with faiths around the world, I love researching, discussing the differences (debating doesn’t always mean “arguing”) and looking into some of the mythology and lore that comes with them.
But as with most things I see a + or - for in a thread that I feel strongly about, I will play devil's advocate and take up a stance on the other side just to toss both sides of a coin in a debate.
You can call that a ‘flaw’ with me on the way I debate on forums

[Ending]

by the sound of it, she pays more tribute to God than the love she has for you.

Pays more tribute to her own life than our life, would be the correct way to say it. The more I think about, the more convinced I become about what she needs to do. Simply put it: she isn't ready to be in a serious relationship. She is in her early 20's, so naturally she'll want to be single before marrying off someone -when she is nearer to her 30's. She wants to become a missionary in Korea and she wants to have a job of her own. She wants to be independent and experience life on her own terms. So I think I'll just have to let her do that.

I have no doubt that she would had relaxed quite a bit about the religious issues if she had come to me now, since when we were together, it wasn't a problem at all. She is a social person and sucks in all the influence around her. With me, she was less zealous. With her family, she became like an old-time crusader. I'm not kidding: that part of the world is still warring a guerrilla war with muslims, since they are treated as second-class citizens. Openly declared non-believers would be hung in front of the church if the priests gave even a slightest suggestion of it. It's a 3rd world country with a reason.

When she is nearer to her 30s, I think she has truly become a hardline adventist.

You're taking the month break and your heart is tugging at it's strings, what you gonna do for yourself in the meantime to get back on track in life?

I found someone else. Took whopping two days. Today is our first date. The real kicker is this: she is also very religious Hopefully only moderately so.

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by Ending

I found someone else. Took whopping two days. Today is our first date. The real kicker is this: she is also very religious Hopefully only moderately so.

Maybe you should consider changing where you hand out to meet girls?

Like the fact that it's a church run singles event might start tipping you off

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Ending

I found someone else. Took whopping two days. Today is our first date. The real kicker is this: she is also very religious Hopefully only moderately so.

Might be better off in the long run, considering your personality and beliefs, to try and avoid anyone who is very religious. It could cause you more harm than good if it comes to a relationship, especially if it leads you right back through what you just left.

[Khu]

I had epiphany that probably many people have had before me today (while playing a visual novel, lol):

There's not going to be any of those sweet moments anymore when both people don't know that the other likes them, and it's getting to that point where being without them is horrible, and so they cling to each other awkwardly while avoiding the sexual and emotional tension ;_;

[Dr. Casey]

Girl : Am I pretty?
Boy : NO.
Girl : Do you want to be with me forever?
Boy : NO.
Girl : Would you cry if I walked away?
.................................Boy : NO.
She heard enough, and was hurt. She walked away, tears ran down her face. The boy grabbed her arm.
Boy : Your not pretty, your beautiful. I don't want to be with you forever, I NEED to be with you forever. And I wouldn't cry if you walked away, I would DIE.
(Boy whispers) : Please? Stay with me.
(Girl whispers) : I will.
Tonight at midnight your true love will realize they love you. Something good will happen to you between 1-4 pm. Tomorrow it could be anywhere. Get ready for the biggest shock of your life! If you don't post this to 5 other pages. You will have relationship problems for the next 10 years.

[RadiantBeam]

This sounds like a chain mail I once found in my inbox...

[cheyannew]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Girl : Am I pretty?
Boy : NO.
Girl : Do you want to be with me forever?
Boy : NO.
Girl : Would you cry if I walked away?
.................................Boy : NO.
She heard enough, and was hurt. She walked away, tears ran down her face. The boy grabbed her arm.
Boy : Your not pretty, your beautiful. I don't want to be with you forever, I NEED to be with you forever. And I wouldn't cry if you walked away, I would DIE.
(Boy whispers) : Please? Stay with me.
(Girl whispers) : I will.
Tonight at midnight your true love will realize they love you. Something good will happen to you between 1-4 pm. Tomorrow it could be anywhere. Get ready for the biggest shock of your life! If you don't post this to 5 other pages. You will have relationship problems for the next 10 years.

What the bloody bleeding bloomin hell is this??
If my true love (lol) doesn't already realize they love me, some stupid chain post is so not going to make them realize it..

Do people actually fall for this nonsense?

[GDB]

Originally Posted by cheyannew

Do people actually fall for this nonsense?

I think the fact it got posted speaks for itself.

[Dr. Casey]

Well, nobody posted for a few days, so I thought I'd revive the thread with one of the most romantic love stories ever written.

[Endless Soul]

Chains (and chain mails) are meant to be broken.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Well, nobody posted for a few days, so I thought I'd revive the thread with one of the most romantic love stories ever written.

... That wasn't very romantic, though.

[solomon]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Girl : Am I pretty?
Boy : NO.
Girl : Do you want to be with me forever?
Boy : NO.
Girl : Would you cry if I walked away?
.................................Boy : NO.
She heard enough, and was hurt. She walked away, tears ran down her face. The boy grabbed her arm.
Boy : Your not pretty, your beautiful. I don't want to be with you forever, I NEED to be with you forever. And I wouldn't cry if you walked away, I would DIE.
(Boy whispers) : Please? Stay with me.
(Girl whispers) : I will.
Tonight at midnight your true love will realize they love you. Something good will happen to you between 1-4 pm. Tomorrow it could be anywhere. Get ready for the biggest shock of your life! If you don't post this to 5 other pages. You will have relationship problems for the next 10 years.

I swear this sounds like that failed pilot for a soap opera NBC passed on last year....

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by cheyannew

Do people actually fall for this nonsense?

For better or worse they do