(L+CR) Nagi no Asukara (Nagi-Asu: A Lull in the Sea)

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Is it a bad thing if she's happier this way? Maybe so, but there's a level of ambiguity here that I fear might be getting missed by some viewers. In other words, there are definite pros to Manaka's current state of being. I think it's a mistake to brush that entirely aside and focus strictly on the brief periods of creepiness.

I agree this shouldn't be overlooked. I just don't think that's the real message. We'll know more in a few weeks once we see where they're going with this.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I agree this shouldn't be overlooked. I just don't think that's the real message. We'll know more in a few weeks.

It may well be that the real message is "love is worth the cost". Although, for reasons that you mentioned before, I'd find a different message more bold and original.

And writers can sometimes surprise when they grapple with the same sort of ideas and themes all the time. If a writer grapples a lot with a certain idea or theme, it could be that the writer himself/herself is struggling to come to a position on it that's comfortable to them (and Okada has grappled a lot with unrequited/failed love in her works). Okada has put "romantic love" at the very core of this narrative, and at the same time it permeates almost the entire narrative as a whole. So it is the heart and lifeblood of this narrative. Heck, even the Sea God himself is in the position he is because of his need of a bride.

[Haak]

Looks to me like Manaka has become the new Noe. Just like Noe's tears were sealed, Manaka's ability to love has been taken from her. And just like Noe needed someone to give her tears, me thinks Manaka needs someone to trigger her love again..

[Sakuratsuki]

Originally Posted by Haak

Looks to me like Manaka has become the new Noe. Just like Noe's tears were sealed, Manaka's ability to love has been taken from her. And just like Noe needed someone to give her tears, me thinks Manaka needs someone to trigger her love again..

Let's say this is the trigger :

Spoiler for Trigger:

It already happend two times when Manaka was troubled. And what if this happens again and Manaka gets her feelings back?
Let's say this time it's not Tsumugu but Hikari ahahaha. That would be epic

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The contrast is indeed very interesting, but I don't think the message Okada wants to send is that you're better off not loving, although it would be a very original message and one I don't completely disagree with (unrequited love sucks). They're portraying Manaka's current state as a bad thing, what with her creepy dead eyes and her lack of compassion (she didn't care when Akira got burned). She's missing a big part of what makes us human.

I actually expect it will be the opposite. That even though Manaka appears happy go lucky because she is free of the heart break of love, she is also missing the triumphs of love too. At least that is my theory.

[Kaoru Chujo]

This is getting so confused that it's having almost no emotional effect on me except frustration. I'm just about to the point where I don't care. I have despised Hikari from the start for his selfish bullying, and my feeling for him has never really recovered from that, since he has never really changed, in that regard.

Manaka found a way to the sun with Tsumugu, but that seems to have burnt off. Chisaki was a one-note Sally until she found Tsumugu, but she has never gone beyond sisterly acceptance, as far as we have seen, despite his feelings for her, which she must have realized by now. I like both Miuna and Saya, as well as Kaname: their minds and desires are clearer. But we continue to have too many characters to spend sufficient time with any of them. Tragedy is fine. Loss of love is fine. But this muddy confusion is not much fun.

Last fall, I felt Golden Time, despite its faults, was a superior show to this. In the first half of this second kuur, I was preferring this show, and Golden Time was sinking. Now they are both stumbling around in the mudflats, for me.

[Raine721]

Loosing interest....but...must hold on until the end...>.>

[Flower]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

This is getting so confused that it's having almost no emotional effect on me except frustration. I'm just about to the point where I don't care.

1.) I have despised Hikari from the start for his selfish bullying, and my feeling for him has never really recovered from that, since he has never really changed, in that regard.

2.) Manaka found a way to the sun with Tsumugu, but that seems to have burnt off.

3.) Chisaki was a one-note Sally until she found Tsumugu, but she has never gone beyond sisterly acceptance, as far as we have seen, despite his feelings for her, which she must have realized by now.

4.) I like both Miuna and Saya, as well as Kaname: their minds and desires are clearer. But we continue to have too many characters to spend sufficient time with any of them.

5.) Tragedy is fine. Loss of love is fine. But this muddy confusion is not much fun.

Last fall, I felt Golden Time, despite its faults, was a superior show to this. In the first half of this second kuur, I was preferring this show, and Golden Time was sinking. Now they are both stumbling around in the mudflats, for me.

Fair enough points.... I have a few thoughts and musings (not really "answers") to some of the points you brought up - a sort of "thinking aloud" on your post I guess. ^^

Regarding #1 for me Hikari was in a bad place from the start but began to soften, to mature - esp in the light of his sister marrying and caring for Miuna. For me that was him at his best. He would revert now and again, but he is 14 and prone to all sports of idiocies like every 14 year old. But for me he reverted a few eps back after he woke up and was speaking with Kaname and talked about his deciding not to change so he could be the "same" for Manaka when she woke up. He seemed to me to have begun to regress since then.

#2. Manaka is still a big question mark for me at the moment. Early on I thought she might be good for Tsumugu, but in retrospect it seems to me Tsumugu was a catalyst for her in a good way the same way Hikari's sister marrying was for him. I am not convinced she would be a good match for Hikari to be honest, but not necessarily because of something wrong with her as opposed to Hikari's current immaturity.

#3. Chisaki. I can see what you mean, and I think that she and Tsumugu would be an excellent mutual support for one another.

#4. I totally agree with you about Miuna, Saya and Kaname. I would not mind seeing Saya and Kaname wind up together, but at the moment I can not see much "practical" material for that working out well - at least to the same degree as, say, Chisaki and Tsumugu. I am of the opinion that both Miuna and possibly Manaka will wind up going back under the sea and living with the sea god in some way, shape or form, but this is just an intuition.

#5. For me it has not yet reached the stage of muddy confusion as it has for you, and that's fine. More of a personal thing, I guess. I am still very invested in the series and looking forward to it's conclusion. Still, I can see how people could be fed up with the series. For me it has worked on a very high % level.

[Kirarakim]

Yeah Hikari is a selfish bully...right. The hatred for Hikari and Miuna on this thread is so ridiculous.

Anyways I disagree that Hikari has digressed. Yes he was extremely upset in this last episode and might not have acted rationally but think of it from his perspective the girl he loves, has love taken away from her just because he took her from the sea.

Now keep in mind that Hikari was ready to accept that Manaka loved Tsumugu in the first half and I think he still believes that. So he isn't upset that Manaka doesn't love him. He is upset that there is something wrong with the Manaka he loves and I expect he is frustrated at the unfairness of it and maybe even partially blames himself. After all, all he did was bring her back. To me it seems that Hikari is so upset for Manaka's sake, not his own. On to top it all of not only is something taken from Manaka out of the innocent thought of bringing her back, the world is still headed for the path of destruction. Do you really blame Hikari for perhaps acting out a bit?

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

The hatred for Hikari...on this thread is so ridiculous.

As far as I can see, only Kaoru has expressed overwhelming dislike for Hikari at this point. You don't need to consider her views as a representative of anything. Especially since she must surely be one of the extreme few that thinks Hikari never changed.

[Miraluka]

^
And Miuna?


Ahem, damn Chisaki, when is she going to give him a proper answer to Kaname? In the final episode?

The guy is pure suffering that isn't even fun anymore. He deserves at least that, in this series where everyone hides what they feel he is the weird one saying what he thinks and feels, and sadly this goes bad gor him. What an insensitive girl.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

^
And Miuna?.

Well I did think that was ridiculous but the topic was on Hikari, and Kaoru didn't even express any dislike towards her. Discussing the hatred against Miuna in the same topic as the hatred against Hikari doesn't really make sense to me since I doubt there's much of an overlap between the two camps. Two separate issues entirely.

[Triple_R]

I don't know how Hikari could be considered a selfish bully. What exactly is he selfishly trying to gain? Who exactly is he bullying?

Hikari wears his emotions on his sleeve and he tends to be very direct. That's actually pretty commonplace for guys his age, going by my own memory of being a guy in junior high in the 90s.

He has a naturally forceful personality, yes, but he doesn't use it for particularly selfish aims or to bully people. When he gets angry it's usually for a good reason. He has a good reason to be angry here - One of his closest friends has been strangely altered, for an unknown reason. His world is going through increasingly severe weather conditions and his people continue to sleep - Why are him, Kaname, and Manaka the only ones to wake up so far? It is deeply concerning, in my view. If anything, I find the relative passivity of most of the rest of the main cast a bit odd.


I know that Hikari could easily come off as dangerously controlling of a close female friend during the first few episodes. That understandably rose red flags for many viewers, myself included. But when you reinterpret those early scenes with what we now know about his character, it's clear that Hikari is simply very protective of the people he cares about, and goes about being protective in a very direct and forceful way. It can give the wrong impression, and maybe sometimes he crosses the line, but his heart is in the right place.

If anything, I think it's good we have a hotblooded male lead rather than another milquetoast "doormat" male lead.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Haak

Well that was ridiculous but the topic was on Hikari, and Kaoru didn't even express any dislike towards her. Discussing the hatred against Miuna in the same topic as the hatred against Hikari doesn't really make sense since I doubt there's much of an overlap between the two camps. Two separate issues entirely.

It was the same to me, both started as protagonist in the first and second half of the series and got the same treatment.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Haak

Well I did think that was ridiculous but the topic was on Hikari, and Kaoru didn't even express any dislike towards her. Discussing the hatred against Miuna in the same topic as the hatred against Hikari doesn't really make sense to me since I doubt there's much of an overlap between the two camps. Two separate issues entirely.

They aren't two separate issues in my mind. Although I agree the fans who hate Miuna are not necessarily the same fans that hate or hated Hikari and I never implied that. But character bashing in general has been overblown in this thread. If someone isn't bashing one character then someone else finds a reason to bash another character. That is why I linked Miuna and Hikari together.

Even if the character bashing of Hikari died down (which I agree) Miuna and Hikari seemed to get the most hate throughout the course of the series and that is what I was implying.

[Flower]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

They aren't two separate issues in my mind. Although I agree the fans who hate Miuna are not necessarily the same fans that hate or hated Hikari and I never implied that. But character bashing in general has been overblown in this thread. If someone isn't bashing one character then someone else finds a reason to bash another character. That is why I linked Miuna and Hikari together.

Even if the character bashing of Hikari died down (which I agree) Miuna and Hikari seemed to get the most hate throughout the course of the series and that is what I was implying.

Apologies if what I wrote came across as "chara bashing" of Hikari. It was not meant to go there at all. (Though I agree that Miuna has received more than enough of this.)

To be fair just because I feel that Hikari has regressed of late does not mean that I do not sympathize with seeing it happen or feel that he "has no right" to do so or what not. He is 14, after all, and that is just a plain difficult time in many people's lives. I feel that he has every "right" to have regressed - he is going through some really intense things. But just because I sympathize with him on this does not mean that I don't think it is not a regression.

That being said, I don't think it is right for me to turn the opinion into a "cause" to raise the flag for and ride rough shod through the world (or this thread, for that matter). It is just a personal opinion, and I can see why others might see things differently in this matter throughout the spectrum with regards to him.

Miuna is another matter, but the main point of this post is regarding Hikari. And, if at all possible (yes - entering broken record mode here) I like to try and give the series as much of the benefit of the doubt for as long as possible and if I watch it to the end to re-evaluate everything from the perspective of the completed whole. I feel that is the "fairest" way to evaluate a series - at least for myself.

[Kirarakim]

Okay I've been thinking and it's not that I don't enjoy the 2nd half. I am still enjoying this show enough to purchase it (unless it completely disappoints me with its ending).

But I thought more about why I feel the 1st half was stronger and I don't think it is just because there is more romance drama (personally I think there was plenty in the 1st half).

But besides the main characters, all the other characters feel well forgotten. In the 1st half we had Akari, and her husband. Tsumugu's grandfather, the teacher, all the other classmates, Hikari and Akari's father, the other sea folk, etc.

Now I know some of these characters are missing due to hibernation but even on the surface we barely get to see other characters except for brief cameos. It just makes the world feel less "lived in".

The only really new character I feel we got in the 2nd half is the professor friend of Tsumugu, but I don't feel much emotional attachment to him because I don't seem to understand who his character is beyond a researcher.


When they talked about the disaster in the 1st half it had meaning to me not just because of all the main characters but because of ALL the characters we had met. I really miss that aspect in the 2nd half and I think for me this is the major difference between the 1st and 2nd part of the show.

[EroKing]

[Arya]

Well, it's pretty natural that Hikari and Miuna got more hate (and so love I suppose), that are the pros and cons of being the main characters. I mean, say, the only complains people can have about Tsumugu or kaname is that they are flat but that's due to the little development they got. Somehow the same could be said about Chisaki, to a lesser extent.
Surely on my part I consider the decision to develop Miuna instead of Chisaki the bigger sin of this show.
In any case I'm trying to follow Flower's policy about commenting on the show as a whole so I'll stop here.

[deadite]

Knowing the Sea God is already dead makes me think that theory of Hikari becoming the next Sea God so that none of the girls have to sacrifice themselves a real possibility...


Also this magazine scan has Manaka wearing the pendant show in the Ofunehiki flag in OP2 v1 could this be the Sea Slug stone?

Spoiler for large image: