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Old 2021-07-14, 01:36   Link #3541
Diluc
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I hope the arc resolve with Osaragi move out to another school.
We don't need backstabber creep like her.
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Old 2021-07-14, 15:28   Link #3542
BWTraveller
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OK, first off, I very strongly doubt the speculation that Osaragi knew Miko was there when she was talking. The look on her face when Miko opened the door was one of shock and horror. I'd say she had no idea Miko was there and really didn't want her to hear that.

But really she's kind of shown how little she concerns herself with Miko just with how she badmouths her. Yeah, Miko does still have some tendency to nitpick, to imagine things, and to stick to the rules, but she's been working on all those things and frankly isn't near that bad on any grounds now. I'd say it's more that she's looking for reasons to say Miko's no good as a romantic interest.

Also, I don't believe for a second that it "isn't love". She says that over and over, but it really feels like she just can't bring herself to admit her own feelings, much less act on them, and so tried to ship him with someone she identified with and reject the very idea of him being with someone that "different".

Anyway, while I understand her venting, that stuff at the start about love being a guaranteed temporary thing, that the brain's not wired for permanent love and stuff, is 100% BS if you ask me. Heck, even those divorce rates are incredibly misleading. It's crazy difficult to get a real, accurate, and legitimately meaningful measure of divorce rates, and even then there are so many factors to take into account that meaning still drops to near nothing. I'd say that love is in a way a living thing, and as such you have to feed it, to exercise it, to protect it and work to heal its wounds. If you just enjoy it while it's there, yeah it'll die fast. But if you really cherish it and keep fighting for it, it can truly last a lifetime.

As I'd said before, I still do hope for reconciliation. Partly because I'm a sucker for that sort of thing. A person experiencing true remorse for their past actions and eventually seeking a way to restore lost bonds almost always moves me (as long as it's done right). It may not happen, but I'd be delighted if it did.
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Old 2021-07-14, 20:18   Link #3543
Konja9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
OK, first off, I very strongly doubt the speculation that Osaragi knew Miko was there when she was talking. The look on her face when Miko opened the door was one of shock and horror. I'd say she had no idea Miko was there and really didn't want her to hear that.
Yeah. When I read the chapter, it was pretty clear Miko hearing Osaragi was an accident.

Honestly, Osaragi was venting their frustrations and I suspect she doesn't really means everything she said, but it was too hard.
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Old 2021-07-14, 21:34   Link #3544
Shadow5YA
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Even if it wasn't intentional, she was clearly venting so she doesn't mean everything that she said. Obviously not an ideal relationship either way, but high school kids are what they are.
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Old 2021-07-15, 05:34   Link #3545
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Even if it wasn't intentional, she was clearly venting so she doesn't mean everything that she said. Obviously not an ideal relationship either way, but high school kids are what they are.
Like Kaguya said, they're similar. So it's like all those times Kaguya cursed Chika in her mind, except Osaragi did it out loud...
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Old 2021-07-15, 07:21   Link #3546
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
OK, first off, I very strongly doubt the speculation that Osaragi knew Miko was there when she was talking. The look on her face when Miko opened the door was one of shock and horror. I'd say she had no idea Miko was there and really didn't want her to hear that.
I was only going off the summary posted here when I made up that theory.

After reading the chapter, it's indeed pretty clear it's wrong. However, Osaragi didn't come off as that much of a bitch either. As others have said, she was clearly venting, I'm sure there are plenty of things she likes about Miko as well. She's just very frustrated because Miko, unlike her, has the courage to be honest with her feelings and actively pursue Ishigami.
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Old 2021-07-15, 11:46   Link #3547
Kuroageha
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Hope the author isn't playing the "make Miko the victim" now.
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Old 2021-07-16, 09:12   Link #3548
WingedAccelerator
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I liked those panels of Osaragi and Kaguya, where we see Osaragi's eye and she said Kaguya has seen through her, and it kind of looks like a mirror.

Hopefully, the explanation of her actions will be stomachable. I already said my gripe with the implication becoming void. I further thought about it, and Osaragi dating Kazeno also suggested she let go of her feelings already, but still could care about Ishigami as a friend in the long run. That relationship also makes no sense to me if she all this time still loved Ishigami, even if she denies it. A "LOL nope, I'm just a dumb teenager that couldn't admit her feelings" is not gonna fly. Especially if she made thing unnecessarily complicated and obnoxious.

Or she really is telling the truth that it's not love, but singled out Iino as "Anyone, but her", and she has a really good reason for not wanting Ishigami to get taken by her.
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Old 2021-07-16, 10:04   Link #3549
Konja9
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Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
Hopefully, the explanation of her actions will be stomachable. I already said my gripe with the implication becoming void. I further thought about it, and Osaragi dating Kazeno also suggested she let go of her feelings already, but still could care about Ishigami as a friend in the long run. That relationship also makes no sense to me if she all this time still loved Ishigami, even if she denies it. A "LOL nope, I'm just a dumb teenager that couldn't admit her feelings" is not gonna fly. Especially if she made thing unnecessarily complicated and obnoxious.
A theory I read is that Osaragi started to date Kazeno to mantain him apart from Tsubame (that's why she ended her relationship with him so fast).

Remember that Ishigami was relieved when he found out Osaragi and Kazeno were dating, since he feared the Kazeno and Tsubame could develop romantic feelings between them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
Or she really is telling the truth that it's not love, but singled out Iino as "Anyone, but her", and she has a really good reason for not wanting Ishigami to get taken by her.
There won't be a good reason for Osaragi not wanting Iino and Ishigami to date. After all, Iino could be difficult, but she is a good person.

At most, it would a selfish but understandable reason.
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Old 2021-07-16, 11:39   Link #3550
BWTraveller
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How is a girl who romantically likes a boy but for various reasons can't allow herself to even admit it going out with another boy at all unbelievable? Whether removing obstacles as part of a plan to hook him up with a girl she could identify with in order to live her fantasy romance vicariously through her, or as a girl's wish to try and forget her crush, it'd be completely natural in my opinion.

And seriously, I find it hard to buy that "implication". Particularly because she's viewing him exactly the same way he viewed Kyoko. I don't remember if it was Kaguya or Osaragi, but one of them mentioned how much the two look alike and how it could hurt even more if, as they firmly believed, he actually had a crush on Kyoko as well. The parallel is strong and honestly I just can't buy it as anything but an excuse by someone who's already decided that they either cannot or must not win that battle.
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Old 2021-07-16, 12:08   Link #3551
Endscape
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Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
A "LOL nope, I'm just a dumb teenager that couldn't admit her feelings" is not gonna fly. Especially if she made thing unnecessarily complicated and obnoxious.
Remember Osaragi's mom destroyed their family and messed up her life because chose to have a fling .

This is probably why Osaragi is trying very hard to put her friendship with Iino over her feelings for Ishigami. Problem is, she's not a saint, so she can't do this and be satisfied about it.

Quote:
Or she really is telling the truth that it's not love, but singled out Iino as "Anyone, but her", and she has a really good reason for not wanting Ishigami to get taken by her.
Osaragi isn't Maki. She knows she can't keep being friends with Miko if she's with Ishigami, which is why she tried so hard to keep that from happening. She wanted to keep being Miko's friend, but the stress got to her, which is why she was venting to Kaguya.
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Old 2021-07-16, 12:15   Link #3552
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post

Hopefully, the explanation of her actions will be stomachable. I already said my gripe with the implication becoming void. I further thought about it, and Osaragi dating Kazeno also suggested she let go of her feelings already, but still could care about Ishigami as a friend in the long run. That relationship also makes no sense to me if she all this time still loved Ishigami, even if she denies it. A "LOL nope, I'm just a dumb teenager that couldn't admit her feelings" is not gonna fly. Especially if she made thing unnecessarily complicated and obnoxious.
.
I'm not sure what kind of high school you went to, but romantic feelings were never a mandatory prerequisite to dating and relationships. Some people do date others just as an experiment or because they don't have a significant reason to refuse.
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Old 2021-07-16, 16:06   Link #3553
HtwoN
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Remember Osaragi's mom destroyed their family and messed up her life because chose to have a fling .

This is probably why Osaragi is trying very hard to put her friendship with Iino over her feelings for Ishigami. Problem is, she's not a saint, so she can't do this and be satisfied about it.



Osaragi isn't Maki. She knows she can't keep being friends with Miko if she's with Ishigami, which is why she tried so hard to keep that from happening. She wanted to keep being Miko's friend, but the stress got to her, which is why she was venting to Kaguya.

An honest conversation with Iino could have helped. But she constantly went behind Iino's back. There is no excuse for her, really.
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Old 2021-07-16, 17:03   Link #3554
WingedAccelerator
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Osaragi and Kazeno became a couple during the same festival Ishigami gave Tsubame the heart. It's way too close in time for it to be an actual plan, and Tsubame did take the heart in the first place. So I'm doubting it was part of a plan.

The entire chapter further reaffirms the reader that Osaragi's deal with Ishigami never ended, never went to anywhere. So no, I'm not buying any sort of "Why not?" or "Just to forget my past romance" type of dating from her on the spot. Especially since Kazeno also stated she was not interested in dating Hongo before him. But Kazeno was okay for few days?

Just like with Iino, it feels like her characterization is sometimes all over the place to me. Or the longer the manga goes on, some of their behavior seem totally distant from the character compared to an earlier time in the manga and the evolution/change is not always organic or evident. Or necessary? It's good that they have different sides and not repating a single character trait, but like I once said it's also comes with the feeling that they are different characters each passing chapter.

The Osaragi that dated Kazeno on the spot feels in character to me to her portrayal till the Ishigami revelation. But after it's just eh, it happened for some reason, ended for a bullshit reason early. She loves Ishigami from the get go, despite the implication. Although if she admits Kaguya has seen through her, it's annoying that she still denies it. And she has some bone to pick with Iino, either serious or she just further derails from the real issue.
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Old 2021-07-16, 17:21   Link #3555
BWTraveller
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Personally, I feel like how Miko is now is a believable way for her to have changed over time. True, she's very different from who she used to be, but that's because she's grown, and I felt the way she'd grown is quite believable. But then, maybe that's because there's not much dissonance between who she is and what she's doing and what I'd want her to be and do. But even if I did feel there were some inconsistencies, I'd say it's a very, very large exaggeration to claim that they're different each chapter.

More importantly, you're hinging on the assumption that Osaragi only started shipping Ishigami and Tsubame after the culture festival. He'd already started crushing on her, and if Osaragi'd seen any of that it would work. Not to mention that such brief thing doesn't suggest any real love. Honestly I'd have little trouble believing that she either already shipped them or found out at the time and spontaneously thought "she's good friends with this hot dude, maybe I should cut him out of the picture".
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Old 2021-07-17, 04:01   Link #3556
Sixth
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Originally Posted by HtwoN View Post
An honest conversation with Iino could have helped. But she constantly went behind Iino's back. There is no excuse for her, really.
This. If you don't know better, you would think that Miko had done something unforgivable for Osaragi in the past for her to hold such a grudge on Miko, but turned out that Miko didn't do anything bad to her at all. It was all due to her own jealousy that Miko became a victim of her jealousy.
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Old 2021-07-17, 06:02   Link #3557
Konja9
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Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator View Post
Osaragi and Kazeno became a couple during the same festival Ishigami gave Tsubame the heart. It's way too close in time for it to be an actual plan, and Tsubame did take the heart in the first place. So I'm doubting it was part of a plan.
No. Osaragi and Kazeno started to date during the preparations for that festival. At that moment, Ishigami hadn't give Tsubame the heart.

The first chapter where is mentioned Osaragi and Kazeno were dating was Chapter 122. The culture festival hadn't started at that point.

In Chapter 122, you could see Ishigami is relieved that Kazeno is dating Osaragi, since he feared Kazeno's closeness with Tsubame. Also, Osaragi told Ishigami about "Culture Festival Magic" for confessions and wished him good luck.
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Old 2021-07-17, 17:07   Link #3558
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Konja9 View Post
No. Osaragi and Kazeno started to date during the preparations for that festival. At that moment, Ishigami hadn't give Tsubame the heart.

The first chapter where is mentioned Osaragi and Kazeno were dating was Chapter 122. The culture festival hadn't started at that point.

In Chapter 122, you could see Ishigami is relieved that Kazeno is dating Osaragi, since he feared Kazeno's closeness with Tsubame. Also, Osaragi told Ishigami about "Culture Festival Magic" for confessions and wished him good luck.
Hadn't gone that far back to check. That really does make things fit. Ishigami started to take an interest in Tsubame, Osaragi started to notice and took action to support her ship, and immediately started encouraging him to confess while also eliminating threats.
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Old 2021-07-17, 20:56   Link #3559
Wandering Soul
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Hadn't gone that far back to check. That really does make things fit. Ishigami started to take an interest in Tsubame, Osaragi started to notice and took action to support her ship, and immediately started encouraging him to confess while also eliminating threats.
A big problem with that theory though is that Kazeno asked Osaragi out, not the other way around. You could argue that she accepted to get rid of him, but why would Kazeno even ask her out if he was intrested in Tsubame?
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Old 2021-07-17, 23:00   Link #3560
BWTraveller
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Fair enough. Still think she was shipping them even before the cultural festival. As for her and Kazeno, even if him asking her out proved Tsubame wasn't his first pick, I still wouldn't be surprised if she accepted the offer in order to get him out of the way. After all, if she rejected him, he might have gone for someone else, not to mention that Tsubame could have taken an interest in him if he wasn't taken.
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