Mahouka LN - Yotsuba Inheritance Arc (Volume 16) Discussion / Poll

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

it it really ok to celibate that Miyuki won while the series hasn't ended yet?
things are getting confusing...
so we're gonna ask

what exactly is/are the truth and the lies within the story so far?

base from the synopsis that was posted before the spoilers, Maya tells a lie

if them being together was a result of a lie, is there really a point to rejoice?
Things bound by lies are destined to shatter in the near future....

Though not a Miyuki shipper but somehow that kind of thing seems shallow...
kinda like the ideologyof some about having an arrange marriage of Tatsuya and Mayumi just to have Mayumi winning
if they are going to hook up, it would be nice if it was on Tatsuya's accord, no string attach such as that...

Dude, I've drunk five cans of beers. I am going to have a killer hangover tomorrow. Let me have this moment. For just the next three months, let me indulge in the paradise that my two favorite characters are bout to be married, Okay, good.

That being said, before I turn off my computer and collapse on my bed, I can see your argument but really know, Tatsuya would try to fall in love with Miyuki. That is basically Tatsuya's version of I love You.

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

it it really ok to celibate that Miyuki won while the series hasn't ended yet?
things are getting confusing...
so we're gonna ask

what exactly is/are the truth and the lies within the story so far?

base from the synopsis that was posted before the spoilers, Maya tells a lie

if them being together was a result of a lie, is there really a point to rejoice?
Things bound by lies are destined to shatter in the near future....

Though not a Miyuki shipper but somehow that kind of thing seems shallow...
kinda like the ideologyof some about having an arrange marriage of Tatsuya and Mayumi just to have Mayumi winning
if they are going to hook up, it would be nice if it was on Tatsuya's accord, no string attach such as that...

True. It's still too early to celebrate. Things could still go horribly, horribly wrong for her in the next 4 volumes. Until Tatsuya says "I love you" in his own accord--no one's truly won

The thing about lies, though? That's...not true. Some people are perfectly comfortable with lies--especially powerful people. But the thing with the Yotsuba and the Shiba isn't as much as lie as it is a plot: everyone is in on it, the Shibas are perfectly aware of what rules they are breaking and stretching here, and they've chosen to go along with it--at least for now. No one's hiding anything from Tatsuya and Miyuki anymore, they're being brought into the charade and their choosing to play the part because they think it's the best options they've got all things considered.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

it it really ok to celibate that Miyuki won while the series hasn't ended yet?
things are getting confusing...
so we're gonna ask

what exactly is/are the truth and the lies within the story so far?

base from the synopsis that was posted before the spoilers, Maya tells a lie

if them being together was a result of a lie, is there really a point to rejoice?
Things bound by lies are destined to shatter in the near future....

Though not a Miyuki shipper but somehow that kind of thing seems shallow...
kinda like the ideologyof some about having an arrange marriage of Tatsuya and Mayumi just to have Mayumi winning
if they are going to hook up, it would be nice if it was on Tatsuya's accord, no string attach such as that...

The lie is that they aren't real siblings and that Tatsuya was conceived through one of Maya's eggs.

The truth is that while Tatsuya and Miyuki were both conceived through the genetic donors we know to be Miya and Tatsurou, Miyuki was heavily genetically modified to restrain Tatsuya. So basically, Tatsuya is the only one who was born naturally. Maya believes that he is her son spiritually because of his magic, which is similar to hers.

As for celebrating, would Tatsuya and Miyuki's marriage constitute incest even when they are no longer genetically similar to cause problems from inbreeding?

It has been said that incest is strictly forbidden in the literature market. Just look at what happened to Oreimo. Are we safe?

[Jiminy]

It appears that Miyuki and Lina will rival about one more thing in the next volume - Tatsuya Sounds good. I think that race isn't over yet.

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by bakato

The lie is that they aren't real siblings and that Tatsuya was conceived through one of Maya's eggs.

The truth is that while Tatsuya and Miyuki were both conceived through the genetic donors we know to be Miya and Tatsurou, Miyuki was heavily genetically modified to restrain Tatsuya. So basically, Tatsuya is the only one who was born naturally. Maya believes that he is her son spiritually because of his magic, which is similar to hers.

As for celebrating, would Tatsuya and Miyuki's marriage constitute incest even when they are no longer genetically similar to cause problems from inbreeding?

It has been said that incest is strictly forbidden in the literature market. Just look at what happened to Oreimo. Are we safe?

OK, in regards to the last one, let me explain:

There's nothing in the law that says authors nor publishers can't make use of the incest trope as they still want to hold on to the idea of protecting a creator's freedom of expression. What the law is trying to prohibit are the works that glorify or depict incest in a positive light. Yosuga no Sora didn't fall under the ban hammer for example because it delved into the negative implications and consequences of engaging in such a union; OreImo managed to dance around it through the use of heavy implication and by adding Manami to act as the voice of reasonable society, and since Mahouka decided to add Minoru to show why outright inbreeding is a problem, and showed Miyuki anguishing over the fact that she realizes her feelings are improper--I say Mahouka is safe.

[NeutralZero]

would Tatsuya and Miyuki's marriage constitute incest even when they are no longer genetically similar to cause problems from inbreeding?

if Miyuki is genetically altered, just exactly wht part of her genes that was/were altered?

though not an expert in genetics but pretty sure the defects shows up mainly bec that defect was/were in the genes of the siblings from the start with the difference on how dominant that gene is... but bec they merge and is identical to one another, other charateristics are magnified alongside with the defects...
if their lineage is pure, no defect whatsoever from both party (their parents) then there would be no problem with them having a child

but for that to happen in mahouka... how exactly strick is the jap market about incest and not the step sibling kind of thing...

[lesstea]

Considering this LN already have another incest chara other than TatsuyaxMiyuki, I'll ship those two till the end.

....though grandpa Kudou might become quite mad lol

[NeutralZero]

Lina aside, in the next volume hope masaki will do something reckless that will warrant him a beating from Tatsuya...

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

OK, in regards to the last one, let me explain:

There's nothing in the law that says authors nor publishers can't make use of the incest trope as they still want to hold on to the idea of protecting a creator's freedom of expression. What the law is trying to prohibit are the works that glorify or depict incest in a positive light. Yosuga no Sora didn't fall under the ban hammer for example because it delved into the negative implications and consequences of engaging in such a union; OreImo managed to dance around it through the use of heavy implication and by adding Manami to act as the voice of reasonable society, and since Mahouka decided to add Minoru to show why outright inbreeding is a problem, and showed Miyuki anguishing over the fact that she realizes her feelings are improper--I say Mahouka is safe.

Thank you for the assurance. Now I can rest easy.

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

if Miyuki is genetically altered, just exactly wht part of her genes that was/were altered?

though not an expert in genetics but pretty sure the defects shows up mainly bec that defect was/were in the genes of the siblings from the start with the difference on how dominant that gene is... but bec they merge and is identical to one another, other charateristics are magnified alongside with the defects...
if their lineage is pure, no defect whatsoever from both party (their parents) then there would be no problem with them having a child

but for that to happen in mahouka... how exactly strick is the jap market about incest and not the step sibling kind of thing...

She was modified to the point they are no longer related genetically. So no problems with inbreeding.

[millie10468]

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

Lina aside, in the next volume hope masaki will do something reckless that will warrant him a beating from Tatsuya...

I've been trying to come up with reasons why the Ichijou clan would object officially that have nothing to do with Masaki being a huge annoyance, trying to get with a girl who's shown absolutely no hints of being receptive to the idea of marriage to him. And I come up blank.

I do wish any objection could have come from other clans even though I realize none of them have a leg to stand on, considering it's Yotsuba private business. That being said, I highly doubt this objection will be a big deal because all Maya has to do is decline the marriage proposal, end of story. I assume that's how intermarriages between the 10MC is routinely done: a clan proposes, the recipient clan accepts or declines, no big deal.

What confuses me about this proposal is the fact that the Ichijou clan should be aware by now that Miyuki's going to be the head. Why would her name even come up when Masaki's also going to be the head of his clan?

[TheLaG]

Originally Posted by millie10468

I've been trying to come up with reasons why the Ichijou clan would object officially that have nothing to do with Masaki being a huge annoyance, trying to get with a girl who's shown absolutely no hints of being receptive to the idea of marriage to him. And I come up blank.

I do wish any objection could have come from other clans even though I realize none of them have a leg to stand on, considering it's Yotsuba private business. That being said, I highly doubt this objection will be a big deal because all Maya has to do is decline the marriage proposal, end of story. I assume that's how intermarriages between the 10MC is routinely done: a clan proposes, the recipient clan accepts or declines, no big deal.

What confuses me about this proposal is the fact that the Ichijou clan should be aware by now that Miyuki's going to be the head. Why would her name even come up when Masaki's also going to be the head of his clan?

Why not, they know she is powerful mage, and Misaki is also not a NOOB, his power is also top tier, well, he lost to Tatsuya in competition, but it's competition anyway, they probably want to get Miyuki to give birth to children which will remain in Ichijou clan, when you consider her power as mage, child will be powerful also That is the reason probably.

[millie10468]

Originally Posted by TheLaG

Why not, they know she is powerful mage, and Misaki is also not a NOOB, his power is also top tier, well, he lost to Tatsuya in competition, but it's competition anyway, they probably want to get Miyuki to give birth to children which will remain in Ichijou clan, when you consider her power as mage, child will be powerful also That is the reason probably.

Yes, but it makes me wonder about the "Clan heirs can't marry each other" rule. Maybe they are just trying their luck?

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by TheLaG

Why not, they know she is powerful mage, and Misaki is also not a NOOB, his power is also top tier, well, he lost to Tatsuya in competition, but it's competition anyway, they probably want to get Miyuki to give birth to children which will remain in Ichijou clan, when you consider her power as mage, child will be powerful also That is the reason probably.

Or? It could mean they're willing to give up their heir just so put a stop to whatever it is the Yotsuba are planning. The Yotsuba are the more powerful clan, it's not Miyuki who would marry into the Ichijou family in this scenario, but Masaki who would marry into the Yotsuba. The Ichijous are willing to lose their Crimson Prince just to screw with Yotsuba designs.


And let's face it: Having the Shiba siblings marry each other feels like a way for the Yotsuba to flaunt their power as well as keep their power inside the clan--on top of it sounding like another one of their weird, messed-up experiments on mage development. The Yotsuba might as well get the government to issue their members licenses that say "I do what I want!"

[TheLaG]

Originally Posted by millie10468

Yes, but it makes me wonder about the "Clan heirs can't marry each other" rule. Maybe they are just trying their luck?

Well, there are a lot of options, like Masaki temp leaving family, after that, divorce, joining back, becoming head?, or they implying to Yotsuba, you need to chose another Heir (another plot option?), also, maybe Kudo suggestion, to separate Miyuki and Tatsuya?

Well, general Idea: every rule have exception and nobody knows how plot will go except author. From Family perspective, to have Miyuki joining any family is great power spike. Also, we still don't know anything about Ichijou, what are their internal affairs, and what is going on inside family, maybe they are feeling that they lose power and that is what driving them... Probably next 2 volumes will open a lot of internal stuff in each of 10 MC and 100th families...

Originally Posted by Lucarion

Or? It could mean they're willing to give up their heir just so put a stop to whatever it is the Yotsuba are planning. The Yotsuba are the more powerful clan, it's not Miyuki who would marry into the Ichijou family in this scenario, but Masaki who would marry into the Yotsuba. The Ichijous are willing to lose their Crimson Prince just to screw with Yotsuba designs.


And let's face it: Having the Shiba siblings marry each other feels like a way for the Yotsuba to flaunt their power as well as keep their power inside the clan--on top of it sounding like another one of their weird, messed-up experiments on mage development. The Yotsuba might as well get the government to issue their members licenses that say "I do what I want!"

strange why they still didn't do that
As for experiment, it might be option to consider, at least from other 10 MC point of view. As for Masaki moving to Yotsuba, I already answered, it depends on conditions they will agree (if Yotsuba ever agree, which I doubt)

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by TheLaG

Also, we still don't know anything about Ichijou, what are their internal affairs, and what is going on inside family, maybe they are feeling that they lose power and that is what driving them... Probably next 2 volumes will open a lot of internal stuff in each of 10 MC and 100th families...

Well, we did get a glimpse of the Ichijou in the side stories. If I had to describe them, I'd call them the Brady Bunch of the 10 MCs.

Or if people want to get Game of Throne-sy here, they're the Dragonstone Baratheons to the Saegusa's Tyrells, and the Yotsuba's Lannisters.

[Verisimilitude]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

Well, we did get a glimpse of the Ichijou in the side stories. If I had to describe them, I'd call them the Brady Bunch of the 10 MCs.

Or if people want to get Game of Throne-sy here, they're the Dragonstone Baratheons to the Saegusa's Tyrells, and the Yotsuba's Lannisters.

Nah, Yotsubas are more Targaryens than Lannisters.

[TheLaG]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

Well, we did get a glimpse of the Ichijou in the side stories. If I had to describe them, I'd call them the Brady Bunch of the 10 MCs.

Or if people want to get Game of Throne-sy here, they're the Dragonstone Baratheons to the Saegusa's Tyrells, and the Yotsuba's Lannisters.

I don't think side story explains anything about that family, it is 100% that we know almost nothing about 10 MC, a little bit of saegusa, something of Ichijou, but their internal affairs, we don't know, well, we know, Saegusa is against anything that Yotsuba is doing (strange why they don't protest here ), in every single place!

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by Verisimilitude

Nah, Yotsubas are more Targaryens than Lannisters.

Or Borgias. Definitely Borgias.


Going back on topic though, the Ichijou just feel really, really tame compared to the others in the 10 MC. The Kudou's experiment with their own too and have their own baggage to deal with, the Saegusa like to plot and get at least finger inside every pie, and the Yotsuba are a messed-up family of twisted eccentrics.

[TrueAlchemist]

Originally Posted by amtro

Yes, the implication is that they do sleep in the same bed and after Miyuki confessed her feelings Tatsuya said that he wasn't bothered by it, so the issue isn't whether or not he's too grossed out by it, but if he can acknowledge Miyuki as more than a sister in his mind. I'd say yes given that their current relationship is plenty strange already and Tatsuya doesn't have much of a memory of what loving someone else felt like, so he might be equating his love for Miyuki to natural brotherly love. He's already there, he just needs to acknowledge it and move on. Also I doubt that they "went to work" right away simply because Miyuki is 16 and they are not married yet. Will it happen in the near future? Chances of that are quite high, since Miyuki has been thinking of it several times in the past. But simply because they're both still in high school I doubt this will result in children right away. There's also the issue of an illegitimate Yotsuba and how it may look to the rest of mage society. Mages already have a bad enough reputation without needing to add high school pregnancies and bastard kids into the mix.

I agree with Amtro; this is the thing, guys.
This is Satou's way of screwing with his fans.
This is my advice. If you are Miyuki fan, you can consider this scene as a sign that Miyuki just torpedoed every other ship in Mahouka. And, just take it!!!
If you are Mayumi fan or Ayako, Honoka, Erika, or even Pixie fan, you can just take this scene as a sign that Miyuki accepts her feeling towards Tatsuya, and Miyuki is officially in the game along with Mayumi, Honoka, Erika, Pixie, Angie, Ayako, and others.

I think, Satou purposely put this to make fans to guess and probably wants to observe how fans react to this. The most important thing is, Satou still has his options. If he chooses Miyuki in the future volumes, we can come back to vol.16 and say "OMG they did it!!!". If Satou chooses another character, this scene will be nothing more than an event where Miyuki accepts her feeling and confesses her love to Tatsuya.

Originally Posted by lesstea

Considering this LN already have another incest chara other than TatsuyaxMiyuki, I'll ship those two till the end.
....though grandpa Kudou might become quite mad lol

Kudou cannot get mad at anything. He does not know anything about Tatsuya and the truth until now. To be honest, he is nothing more than hypocrite who thinks, he is doing a good thing for the magician society, but at the end he risks others' lives for the sake of his grandson who is semi-psychopath and a product of incest.

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

Lina aside, in the next volume hope masaki will do something reckless that will warrant him a beating from Tatsuya...

Masaki's love is one sided love, and not only that Masaki only met Miyuki four times in the story: two 9SC events and two thesis competition events. They never exchange anything other than simple "hello" except Kyoto Arc where Masaki helped Tatsuya.
So, I am betting, Ichijou's objection may be made by Gouki himself because Miyuki is in Masaki's age group. He probably cannot consider Mayumi because she is older, and Miyuki is simply too superior. In addition, if it is successful, Ichijou clan gains a powerful allie. However, I will not be surprised if Gouki made a decision after witnessing his son crying his eyes out.

[IceHism]

I thought it was pretty obvious that gouki rejected the proposal simply because the yotsuba are skipping agreed-upon 10mc procedures and are trying to consolidate power into one clan. Both are no-nos. They all know the yotsuba will break the rules anyways. That's not a reason for them to not act. I imagine that only the juumonji, saegusa, ichijou, and kudou are the only ones who are powerful enough to even try to check yotsuba and preserve a balance of power