Bakemonogatari - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[DragoZERO]

Very good explanation indeed. Makes a lot of sense. She was incredibly cute in that scene.

The sign was great, I love how they change the little things in the surroundings to reflect whats going on.

And I always have my finger on the pause button as I watch this. lol.

[HayashiTakara]

Color me red and call me slappy, but is it just me or is it really Hanekawa that Araragi likes?

[HandofFate]

Originally Posted by Reekon

After a few times of re-watching it, I finally understood it.

Notice that he was just trying to touch/fix her hair/bangs, and she suddenly moves away.

And then he touches/lifts her skirt and she doesn't do anything.

The next screen shows cars, but the text shows something like "You're defending the wrong things." (I left the episode at the other computer, so I can't confirm the actual words.) This screen is before Araragi asks himself the question of judging as a man.

So my understanding is:

- Araragi at first just wanted to fix her hair or pat her head but was surprised that she moved away.
- So maybe as a test, he just touched (well lifted actually) her skirt, but now he was again surprised since this time she didn't do anything.
- Thus the text that read "Why are you defending the wrong things?".

Based on Nadeko's reactions, it's like she doesn't want her hair/head to be touched/patted, since she doesn't want to be treated like a little girl. And she allows her skirt to be lifted to show sexual ease and maturity, again treating the person in front of her as a "man" instead of just a caring older brother.

Damn, not good with explaining stuff.

But I hope you get what I mean.

Seems like a good explanation. The thing I'm confused with is how he's like "When I do it with you, it feels like your judging me as a man"
The thing is, most times in anime, when say a female is naked or partially unclothed in front of a guy, and she doesn't react much to it, the guy goes like "She doesn't see me as a man does she"

oh, how about when Nadeko spaz out and runs off when Hanakawa shows up. is this because she's still a very shy person?

EDIT: hm, maybe the 'it' refers to the hair thing, and not the skirt thing..

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Color me red and call me slappy, but is it just me or is it really Hanekawa that Araragi likes?

At this point in time.. I think she is just a really good fan. But there is a lot we don't know and a lot can happen.

I'll never forgive him for betraying Senjougahara-sama though.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Color me red and call me slappy, but is it just me or is it really Hanekawa that Araragi likes?

This is exactly the problem that Hanekawa warned Araragi about.

She told him that his kindness is a good trait, but he has to be careful of how kind he is and who he shows his kindness to.

So for her, she can no longer accept his kindness and attention because she does not want to cause problems with him and Senjougahara.

Araragi is "hyper kind" by his nature. He almost died because of his desire to be kind. Twice... in the Anime. The first time was for Kanbaru. The second time was for the boy that put the curse on Nadeko.

That being said, Hanekawa likes his kindness, but she realises that Hitagi has him all to herself now (Hitagi is greedy by nature) and as such she has to keep a new distance.

IT is like your female friend gets married and you can no longer have her coming to your apartment just to hang out and play Halo.

Her husband will have a problem.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

This is exactly the problem that Hanekawa warned Araragi about.

She told him that his kindness is a good trait, but he has to be careful of how kind he is and who he shows his kindness to.

So for her, she can no longer accept his kindness and attention because she does not want to cause problems with him and Senjougahara.

Araragi is "hyper kind" by his nature. He almost died because of his desire to be kind. Twice... in the Anime. The first time was for Kanbaru. The second time was for the boy that put the curse on Nadeko.

That being said, Hanekawa likes his kindness, but she realises that Hitagi has him all to herself now (Hitagi is greedy by nature) and as such she has to keep a new distance.

IT is like your female friend gets married and you can no longer have her coming to your apartment just to hang out and play Halo.

Her husband will have a problem.

Well its not just the kindness. With her he loses his composure quite easily, the flash back with Araragi and Oshino is the telling part for me.

[monir]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Color me red and call me slappy, but is it just me or is it really Hanekawa that Araragi likes?

Okay Slappy.... I also think this point will receive further scrutiny in the upcoming episodes. Unlike every other girls where Araragi acted as a mediator to solve their problems, with Hanekawa he IS the problem. How will Senjougahara come to receive this quandary? I bet she comes to think the same thing that perhaps, the reason Araragi stopped short at fully committing is because he has certain feelings, a crush for Hanekawa? Araragi may not be fully aware of it himself mind you...

Like I said earlier, very much looking forward to this arc. Oh momma....

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by monir

Okay Slappy.... I also think this point will receive further scrutiny in the upcoming episodes. Unlike every other girls where Araragi acted as a mediator to solve their problems, with Hanekawa he IS the problem. How will Senjougahara come to receive this quandary? I bet she comes to think the same thing that perhaps, the reason Araragi stopped short at fully committing is because he has certain feelings, a crush for Hanekawa? Araragi may not be fully aware of it himself mind you...

Like I said earlier, very much looking forward to this arc. Oh momma....

1. Hanekawa could never get Araragi to study nor think about his future.

2. Senjougahara not only got Araragi to study, but to aim for the very University that she is going to plus he is seriously pondering his future.

In this context. It is clear Senjougahara is top crab and the cat has no weight.

I mean... look at it clearly...

A. The conversation and chemistry between the Hitagi and Koyomi) is always like intense verbal sex.

B. The conversation and chemistry between Tsubasa and Koyomi is always like Teacher to Student and counseling sessions.

Hanekawa is too mild a personality to move Araragi beyond himself and manifest his potential. Hitagi has that right fuel for him to move his lazy ass.

Put it this way... you know... deep down you know... that Koyomi would enjoy sex with Hitagi more than Hanekawa.

[Reekon]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Seems like a good explanation. The thing I'm confused with is how he's like "When I do it with you, it feels like your judging me as a man"
The thing is, most times in anime, when say a female is naked or partially unclothed in front of a guy, and she doesn't react much to it, the guy goes like "She doesn't see me as a man does she"

oh, how about when Nadeko spaz out and runs off when Hanakawa shows up. is this because she's still a very shy person?

EDIT: hm, maybe the 'it' refers to the hair thing, and not the skirt thing..

Thanks!

But I now watched it yet again.

The wind blew Nadeko's hair, and that was when Araragi reached out to her hair.

So the hair thing doesn't seem to be a test or a conscious thing to do. So I think the "it" you're talking about might still be about the skirt.


The thing about Nadeko spazing out and running away when Hanekawa showed up also puzzles me.

I think as somebody else mentioned, maybe she thought Hanekawa was Araragi's girlfriend? Therefore she got shy/scared to stay and be a "hindrance/interruption".

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

This is exactly the problem that Hanekawa warned Araragi about.

She told him that his kindness is a good trait, but he has to be careful of how kind he is and who he shows his kindness to.

So for her, she can no longer accept his kindness and attention because she does not want to cause problems with him and Senjougahara.

Araragi is "hyper kind" by his nature. He almost died because of his desire to be kind. Twice... in the Anime. The first time was for Kanbaru. The second time was for the boy that put the curse on Nadeko.

That being said, Hanekawa likes his kindness, but she realises that Hitagi has him all to herself now (Hitagi is greedy by nature) and as such she has to keep a new distance.

IT is like your female friend gets married and you can no longer have her coming to your apartment just to hang out and play Halo.

Her husband will have a problem.

I think you're misreading what you're responding to. Maybe? I doesn't feel to me like you're directly addressing it anyway. He's not saying Hanekawa likes Araragi, which is something that's been speculated a lot already, he's saying Araragi likes Hanekawa. As in, he treats her more like someone he likes than he does Senjougahara. She is special to him, he even says so. The implication being that he just went with Senjougahara out of momentum and now a kind of duty, but it's truly Hanekawa who has a special place in his heart. This is not a matter of his behavior ("don't make Senjougahara jealous by hagning out with girls)", this is a matter of his feelings.

Anyway, I can sort of see it.

[Reekon]

Originally Posted by Clarste

I think you're misreading what you're responding to. Maybe? I doesn't feel to me like you're directly addressing it anyway. He's not saying Hanekawa likes Araragi, which is something that's been speculated a lot already, he's saying Araragi likes Hanekawa. As in, he treats her more like someone he likes than he does Senjougahara. She is special to him, he even says so. The implication being that he just went with Senjougahara out of momentum and now a kind of duty, but it's truly Hanekawa who has a special place in his heart. This is not a matter of his behavior ("don't make Senjougahara jealous by hagning out with girls)", this is a matter of his feelings.

Anyway, I can sort of see it.

Yup in the flash of text screens, Araragi mentions that Hanekawa is indeed important to him.

Naturally with Senjougahara the attraction and intensity is quite high. But the story does give hints and instances where he does care for Hanekawa.

[monir]

Let's not forget that the series started out with the entire one second spent in the slow motion diplay of Hanekawa's lacey panty at it's full glory and the equal delight of Araragi. I thought I should mention it from the context of the subject if Araragi has a soft spot for Hanekawa.

[ickem]

Originally Posted by monir

Let's not forget that the series started out with the entire one second spent in the slow motion diplay of Hanekawa's lacey panty at it's full glory and the equal delight of Araragi. I thought I should mention it from the context of the subject if Araragi has a soft spot for Hanekawa.

Correction, he has a soft spot for her underwear.

Anyway it's pretty obvious that he likes Hanekawa so it's just a question of what type of feelings he has for her.

[monir]

Originally Posted by ickem

Correction, he has a soft spot for her underwear.

lol. I stand corrected. Araragi also has soft spot for school mizugi and bloomer. And once Senjougahara is through with him, he will also come to worship apron.... the hadaka kind. What an enviable position he is in!

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by Belum_nabum

Another thing that bothered me is that IF SHINOBU ENERGY DRAINS then it was not her that made Araragi into a vampire. I know for a fact that a vampire needs to exchange blood so that you are one. Energy is of no matter. It's all about the blood. I also do not think that vampires drain both energy and blood. It is either one of them.

Finally Araragi should prove himself BETTER if he does not want to soil Hitagi's reputation in school, especially if people start teasing her about how Hitagi has A LOSER BOYFRIEND.

Different series has different vampire lore. It's so mix up to the point that I don't know anymore what is the original lore. IMO We should wait for more explanation about vampire in this series. If we're lucky, we will get season 2 for Koyomi Vamp arc.

Araragi has already proved himself enough in previous arcs. It's just that no one knows about it and he isn't popular in school either. It's pretty normal for people to have a gossip when star of the class like Senjougahara has unpopular guy like Araragi as a boyfriend. I'm sure that Senjougahara never care about her reputation. I think that she actually prefers that Araragi isn't a popular guy. So that no more girls will involve with him again. And I really doubt that people will dare to tease her.

I think that Hanekawa is just too serious about this. Well, she looks like a type who get serious for everything. And somehow I felt that she said that because she was jealous of Senjougahara. I think that she brought this gossip into conversation because she wanted to let Araragi down. Because she felt angry when Araragi mentioned Sejougahara. I didn't fully believe about her "I don't lie" either. I agree with people who think that Hanekawa's stress, this time, comes from Senjougahara x Araragi.

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Color me red and call me slappy, but is it just me or is it really Hanekawa that Araragi likes?

I actually felt very surprise that they didn't end up being couple. In the flashback, it looked like they were on a date before the cat took possession of her body. I think Hanekawa is no doubt a special person for Araragi. But she isn't his lover. It's a type of more than friend but less than lover relationship. IMO But time will tell. I really can't wait for next episode.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by monir

lol. I stand corrected. Araragi also has soft spot for school mizugi and bloomer. And once Senjougahara is through with him, he will also come to worship apron.... the hadaka kind. What an enviable position he is in!

I do not think Gahara-san will stop only at the Naked Apron... she is also genius level like Hanekawa and is also an avid reader... imagine the things she has planned for him.

Back on point.

From what I can see...

Yes Koyomi likes Hanekawa.

But Hitagi got there first.

He also likes Kanbaru.

But Hitagi got there first.

Somebody has to win and sombody else has to watch them win.

However (Hanekawa deduced this) Hitagi wants to know that Koyomi accepted her not because he is kind and couldn't reject her, but because he desires her above all others.

She wants to know that if Kanbaru and Hitagi herself are in a room that Koyomi would pick Hitagi. (Referenced and rephrased from Hanekawas lecture in the bookshop episode 9)

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

It's a type of more than friend but less than lover relationship.

The very thing that Senjougahara hates and warned Koyomi about if he accepted her love when she confessed. She wants him to "put it into words" and not make the relationship "unclear"

Very unusual in an anime/light novel I might add.

[Tsuyoshi]

Araragi's been really subtle with his relationship, although a strong hint is suggested when he said he's aiming for the same university as Hitagi, so it's likely he wants to stay with Hitagi for as long as possible. Admittedly, his feelings for her are unclear, especially when you see him interact with the other girls, but imho, his feelings for Hitagi are stronger compared to those he has for everyone else.

[Clarste]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

Araragi's been really subtle with his relationship, although a strong hint is suggested when he said he's aiming for the same university as Hitagi, so it's likely he wants to stay with Hitagi for as long as possible. Admittedly, his feelings for her are unclear, especially when you see him interact with the other girls, but imho, his feelings for Hitagi are stronger compared to those he has for everyone else.

I think you can easily attribute that to a strong sense of duty rather than any feelings for her in particular. In many ways, trying to be a "good boyfriend" is similar to his habit of helping everyone he meets. Plus he seems to have low self-esteem, so it's reasonable to think he wants to hold onto what he's got for as long as possible. I'm not denying that he has strong feelings for Senjougahara, but I don't think the university thing alone is sufficient evidence.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Clarste

I think you can easily attribute that to a strong sense of duty rather than any feelings for her in particular. In many ways, trying to be a "good boyfriend" is similar to his habit of helping everyone he meets. Plus he seems to have low self-esteem, so it's reasonable to think he wants to hold onto what he's got for as long as possible. I'm not denying that he has strong feelings for Senjougahara, but I don't think the university thing alone is sufficient evidence.

True. As I said, it's a hint, but choosing to go to a university because someone else is is a pretty strong decision that will affect the rest of his life, and I don't doubt Araragi thought of that, so it's a strong hint at that. Still, I agree that it's not something definite.