(L) Dragon Ball Super

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Using more efficient movements would naturally give his attacks more power but I don't think this is a multiplayer like kaio-ken.

But would the kind of extra power that comes from more efficient movements truly allow his base form to strike with just as much power as an SS God transformation? I'm not sure. However...

Originally Posted by GDB

I'm not entirely convinced he was in "base" form, to be honest. It just seems like even more BS than normal for Toei to have base form do that much just because he can move more naturally when he connected as a SSJ2 and did nothing. I imagine he has to be in that "God Ki non-SSJ" form from Resurrection F.

Being able to tap into god-ki in his base form...why not? Sounds plausible to me. And it would adequately explain the strength boost. It might also explain the mysterious heat that was emanating from his body.

For what its worth, episode 18 mentions something that I think has become very relevant to whats going on. After being asked why Goku and Vegeta didn't go Super Saiyan during their training, Whis compared their current power levels to the gods to the difference between the height of Beerus's castle and an unimpressive nearby tree.

He mentioned that if they don't increase their strength in their base forms, then the strength they'd acquire would be insignificant and not enough to let them "see the world beyond". So whether he's tapping into god-ki or not, I think this is exactly what Whis was hoping to push Goku and Vegeta into unlocking. Because it's making his base form able to stand up to a GoD's power level without a god level SS transformation. Clearly this kind of power is what should allow Goku and Vegeta to thrive in this "world beyond" that Whis referred to since it should also allow the power gained from their SSG forms to be far more significant and meaningful.

No longer will Goku need SSG just to sort of maybe keep up with GoD level entities. Now SSG could conceivably end up giving Goku a clear advantage over them. That's an exciting premise for me after we've seen this series gradually degrade SSB into a relatively underwhelming transformation.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by sayde

But would the kind of extra power that comes from more efficient movements truly allow his base form to strike with just as much power as an SS God transformation? I'm not sure. However...

I'm not the one saying this was his base form. He probably is using some sort of god ki. But I don't think that's the main point of this "power up." He actually didn't look a lot stronger than before. He couldn't actually damage Jiren, for instance. He just looked faster and more accurate. And even the name "ultra instinct" suggests he mainly gained better movements and reaction, not more power.

To defeat Jiren, he'll probably have to use this thing together with SSB or something like that, to combine this speed and accuracy with more power.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by sayde

Being able to tap into god-ki in his base form...why not? Sounds plausible to me. And it would adequately explain the strength boost. It might also explain the mysterious heat that was emanating from his body.

But wouldn't that basically be what Super Saiyan God is? Despite the confusing naming convention that calls it "Super Saiyan", it isn't really a Super Saiyan form at all.

[Mad Pierrot]

[Kazu-kun]

That's the version I watched. Didn't know this scene was cut out in some other version. Why would they do that though?

[Robotech Master]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That's the version I watched. Didn't know this scene was cut out in some other version. Why would they do that though?

There's no special "why," the Japanese distributors simply gave them a truncated version on accident.

[Kanon]

I think Ultra Instinct did give Goku a boost in strength, since one of the characters (forgot who) commented his attacks were getting heavier. There is the thing about his body overheating too. Ultra instinct seems more than just a technique that allows you to move without thinking.

[Kazu-kun]

That doesn't necessarily mean it's an increase of power. When your movements are faster, your punches become heavier too. That's just physics.

[Vegard Aune]

From what I understand, FUNimation's website contains the one-hour version of this special, wherein that bonus scene is intact, whereas Crunchyroll got the version cut up into two regular episodes instead, wherein that scene was cut to make room for the opening, ending and recap I guess? What I'm more curious about is... which of those versions will be on the Blu-ray? It would seem a bit odd if the Blu-ray didn't have all the content, but at the same time having a single double-episode on there that's labeled as being two separate episodes... would also be weird.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I think Ultra Instinct did give Goku a boost in strength, since one of the characters (forgot who) commented his attacks were getting heavier. There is the thing about his body overheating too. Ultra instinct seems more than just a technique that allows you to move without thinking.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That doesn't necessarily mean it's an increase of power. When your movements are faster, your punches become heavier too. That's just physics.

remember goku get a huge temporary power booster from the spirit bomb, this means which he become faster and strong and he was burning all that power fast, based on how goku was surprised i feel which he was still trying to learn how much strong he was during the battle that was why he was become more strong cuz he was tapping more and more in the "spirit bomb extra power" and it was making it drain more and more fast to the point of the power runoff exactly in the last second of his last punch making unable to knock off jiiro.

but now after this battle i think which goku can't beat jiren alone if he do that this means which goku already surprassed the gods of destruction and even jiren and make now only angels and mini "surpreme god" the only real threat to him now, i feel which probably beat jiren will be a sort of teamwork to weakning him to help goku be able to beat him, still to early for goku reach that level unless the anime is already nearly the end.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

But wouldn't that basically be what Super Saiyan God is? Despite the confusing naming convention that calls it "Super Saiyan", it isn't really a Super Saiyan form at all.

No, SSJG is different. Resurrection F already had "base form with god ki" that Goku used to fight Final Form Frieza prior to Golden/SSJB debuting.

They never really specify what the difference is between SSJG and Base God non-SSJ, though. I imagine that they're basically the same, but with SSJG having the extra benefits that only that form provides (regen, "peak" body, and the like).

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

remember goku get a huge temporary power booster from the spirit bomb

Except Whis very explicitly said that Goku was not powered up by the Spirit Bomb, and was merely using its energy to move since he was otherwise depleted.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by GDB

No, SSJG is different. Resurrection F already had "base form with god ki" that Goku used to fight Final Form Frieza prior to Golden/SSJB debuting.

They never really specify what the difference is between SSJG and Base God non-SSJ, though. I imagine that they're basically the same, but with SSJG having the extra benefits that only that form provides (regen, "peak" body, and the like).



Except Whis very explicitly said that Goku was not powered up by the Spirit Bomb, and was merely using its energy to move since he was otherwise depleted.

he told which not was "only the spirit bomb, the spirit bomb only replenished goku power and helped him awaken temporary his ultra sense, unless again "different translations", the power booster from spirit bomb =/= from the ultra sense, it only allowed him to become a perfect warrior giving the speed but the energy/power/gas/ whatever you want to call, which goku was depleding in the fight was from the spirit bomb.

[Robotech Master]

Originally Posted by GDB

No, SSJG is different. Resurrection F already had "base form with god ki" that Goku used to fight Final Form Frieza prior to Golden/SSJB debuting.

They never really specify what the difference is between SSJG and Base God non-SSJ, though. I imagine that they're basically the same, but with SSJG having the extra benefits that only that form provides (regen, "peak" body, and the like).

"Saiyan Beyond God" (Base God non-SSJ) seems like it was intended to replace SSJG entirely, with Blue being what happens when you stack regular Super Saiyan on top of Saiyan Beyond God. At least, that's how its described both in the series, and in more detail in the material that came out alongside the film...but, they seem to have backtracked over that idea, probably because Merchandising.

Except Whis very explicitly said that Goku was not powered up by the Spirit Bomb, and was merely using its energy to move since he was otherwise depleted.

Yes, even Tien knew right away that the bomb could not be powering up Goku, since the bomb wasn't strong enough to challenge Jiren.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Robotech Master

"Saiyan Beyond God" (Base God non-SSJ) seems like it was intended to replace SSJG entirely, with Blue being what happens when you stack regular Super Saiyan on top of Saiyan Beyond God. At least, that's how its described both in the series, and in more detail in the material that came out alongside the film...but, they seem to have backtracked over that idea, probably because Merchandising.



Yes, even Tien knew right away that the bomb could not be powering up Goku, since the bomb wasn't strong enough to challenge Jiren.

the problem not was "the bomb not strong" otherwise jiren could not need to "send back to goku" and just tanked the blow if it not was strong, what not was strong was goku, the spirit is moved by the "user power" not by herself, that moment of spirit bomb was goku power x jiren power to see which one would take control over the spirit bomb where goku ended loosing.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Geez, I long for the days of my youth, when they aired GT for the first time, we knew about SSJ4 only from rumours, and the wildest our imaginations could get to was the SSJ5 bogus stuff that was spread by Dragonball AF . Now keeping track of all transformations and relative connections has become as complex as the Zelda timeline (not to mention keeping track of the timeline too).

[Sixth]

Deleted Scene From The **1 Hour Special** Episode (Dragon Ball Super)?????

It has Jiren struggling to push back the Spirit Bomb.

[rpgman1]

This episode was intense. Frieza took advantage of a blind spot and give some of his energy to Goku. He knew that Jiren is just too powerful and wants Goku to attain Ultra Instinct. Hit tried his best, but in the end loses to Jiren. Jiren knows that nobody else can match up to him, so he meditates and has a wall of energy surrounding him. The preview though shows Vegeta and Cabba fighting each other again, but Frieza probably has his own ulterior motive against Cabba anyway.

[Stark700]

Well, I give credit for Hit trying.
Not even slightly surprised that he got knocked off since Jiren still has overwhelming power.

I wonder how long Universe 6 will last now....Hit was pretty much their ace fighter.

[BassGSnewtype]

They've still got Caulifoua and Kale, when Kale's back in full form she'll likely get some hits in.

[rpgman1]

No one else can even match Jiren's current power level anyway. Even Goku needs to figure out how to achieve Ultra Instinct and it probably has to do with the opponents he fight against. Can't say it was a fluke though.