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Old 2014-02-03, 16:27   Link #33901
AuraTwilight
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I BELIEVE THAT THE YASU theory even though it might be r07's golden truth, it was desinged to make you stop looking. i call it the trap.
This is demonstratably untrue. Ryukishi himself is on record for saying that the Yasu truth was constructed so his answer couldn't be copypasted and people would be able to think about and enjoy Umineko forever.

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YASU IS NOT IN 8 and everyones in 8. battler doesnt tell ANGE THAT THIS IS YASU'S STORY.
What are you talking about? Yasu's right there. She's Beatrice, and Kanon, and Shannon, just like she was in every other episode since the first one.

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this IS MARIA'S, ROSA'S, and ANGE'S STORY AND THE RESULT THAT OCCURED AFTER ANGE AND ROSA DENIED MARIA'S MAGIC . ISNT THAT WHAT BATTLERS PURPOSE IN THE GAME? TO DOUBT MAGIC. I DONT BELIEVE BATTLER EXISTS AND ONLY USED AS THE READER"S PIECE.
So....there is no Battler Ushiromiya? What the hell are you saying here?

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DID anyone notice how it seemed rosa got to the gold first and at the same time beatrice showed the ceramony of passing her title to eva?

seems like rosa gave her the gold and then set her up to take the blame.. in later eps we see beatrice waiting in the gold room when someone solves the riddle, funny how rosa was standing right behind her. rosa didnt want the gold just off the island
Factually untrue. Eva beat Rosa there in the only episode where Rosa solves the epitaph, and never stands behind Beatrice at any point.
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Old 2014-02-03, 17:54   Link #33902
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As for Erika being a part of Yasu:

Apparently a Furudo Erika really existed and had parents.
Of course the Erika we know might not be the real one, which Yasu, Ikuko and Battler/Tohya likely didn't know (unless he was Erika's secret boyfriend) but merely a construction based on the info they had of her so, if info were few, she could end up on being a reflection of her creator's personality/beliefs and the name Furudo Erika being merely a vessel.

Now... where this lead us?
Erika was introduced in Ep 5. Her vessel came into play in the Rokkenjima tragedy after it happened. So Yasu couldn't have used it as alter ego prior to the tragedy.

Due to Ep 5 meta layer it's assumed that it can also represent a disagreement between Tohya and Ikuko, with Tohya refusing to work on the Rokkenjima project any further and Ikuko going through her own way with it. The circumstancial evidence implies there's a different gamemaster, that the gameboard is used differently (the love message is ignored in favour of revenge), a new character as detective is added who's not an alter-ego of Battler/Tohya but an alter-ego of Bern, who's Featherine's miko, who's the witch identity of the duo Hachijo Tohya with Ikuko look and that in Ep 6 will reveal she can't see the gameboard from Battler's perspective anymore due to technical problems... which can be a hint about how the duo isn't cooperating as deeply as before at the moment.

To make a long story short, I'll say Erika is more likely to be a 'portray' of Ikuko than of Yasu (who needed Tohya's help to improve her tales and that, without him, could have regressed into creating a heartless detective) and the only chance for Erika to be also a portray of Yasu is for Yasu to be Ikuko as well.

Which might or might not be, as we know Yasu survived long enough to the Rokkenjima tragedy to toss her tales in the sea... though it can also be that, as the magic ending implied, she drowned herself short after.

On a sidenote Erika is the creepiest character ever, expecially in Ep 6, so I think Tohya will feel safer if Ikuko and Erika have nothing in common... (the ring scene is... is... I've no words for it...)
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Old 2014-02-04, 00:55   Link #33903
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Absolutely true, everything that has been said. There is not any clear evidence for Erika being part of Yasu, and more importantly, it does not add much to any theory or interpretation of Umineko. I had almost forgotten that Erika was proven to have really existed, wish some more details around who she was had come up.

And the ring scene really is great... in its own, horrifying way. Erika really is a lesson in contrasts, though. So evil and frightening, but so pathetic when it comes to Bern. Personally I think the scene where she "proves" that Natsuhi and Kinzo slept together is her most evil scene, it is just heartbreaking.
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Old 2014-02-04, 04:48   Link #33904
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That being said, while I don't seriously truck with such theories, I always did like the idea of Erika being a personification of Yasu's disenchantment with like....everything.

Erika shows up when Beatrice loses faith in everything, and she dies when Beatrice is reborn. And she denounces, uglifies, and belittles everything Beatrice believes in and stands for. She's essentially her Shadow Archetype in all but name.
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Old 2014-02-04, 13:02   Link #33905
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Factually untrue. Eva beat Rosa there in the only episode where Rosa solves the epitaph, and never stands behind Beatrice at any point.
But even though I don't myself believe in Rosa being a culprit in any way, the ides of her solving epitah is sort of interesting detail: it is clearly shown that she CAN solve it, and for example in episode 2, though varying interpretations can be made, one can claim that "Rosa solved epitah" in the chapter. Though the illogical actions (like referring to talking to kinzo) can be explained by Yasu bribing her, I don't think it is wrong to use rosa solving epitah as part of a theory.

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On a sidenote Erika is the creepiest character ever
That's quite a lot said about game that has a cast of nightmare-fuel-tier characters. I still have shivers when I think about Yasu pulling the prank with the doll in ep7. Even the characters that aren't fantasy witches pull out sort of tricks (like Kyrie sort of admitting plotting murder) that'd make me run to the opposite direction very fast.

Overall I think Ryu can write "creepy" stories quite well, even though his horror is sort of lacking. Though I rarely feel actual fear of any kind when reading fictional stories.
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Old 2014-02-04, 15:12   Link #33906
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But even though I don't myself believe in Rosa being a culprit in any way, the ides of her solving epitah is sort of interesting detail: it is clearly shown that she CAN solve it, and for example in episode 2, though varying interpretations can be made, one can claim that "Rosa solved epitah" in the chapter. Though the illogical actions (like referring to talking to kinzo) can be explained by Yasu bribing her, I don't think it is wrong to use rosa solving epitah as part of a theory.
The thing is we don't actually know if this is true. Rosa solving the epitaph could've just been a fantasy detail to give a false motive for the false Eva culprit theory, etc.
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Old 2014-02-04, 19:59   Link #33907
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The issue with Erika-as-Yasu is that Erika and Kanon definitely inhabit two different bodies. The idea that she represents the cynical side of Yasu makes sense though, she does seem like an anti-fantasy version of Beatrice in a lot of ways (for instance, her attempt to enslave Battler in Dawn kindof mirrors Beatrice's actions in Turn).

The problem with the Rosa=Beatrice theory is that it really doesn't work in any episode that is not Banquet and maaaybe Turn. If I had to pick a dark horse culprit it would be Jessica, by the way, you could probably explain Yasu as a proxy for her more easily.
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Old 2014-02-05, 02:37   Link #33908
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The issue with Erika-as-Yasu is that Erika and Kanon definitely inhabit two different bodies.
Irrelevant. They can be the same person on the meta-layer without being the same person on the Gameboard.

Especially since Bern and Lambda are blatantly changing the rules.

Quote:
The problem with the Rosa=Beatrice theory is that it really doesn't work in any episode that is not Banquet and maaaybe Turn. If I had to pick a dark horse culprit it would be Jessica, by the way, you could probably explain Yasu as a proxy for her more easily.
It doesn't even work in those episodes, lol.

Jessitrice was pretty elegant before Chiru came out, yea. Jessica has almost all the privileges Yasu does.
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Old 2014-02-05, 17:05   Link #33909
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On a sidenote Erika is the creepiest character ever, expecially in Ep 6, so I think Tohya will feel safer if Ikuko and Erika have nothing in common... (the ring scene is... is... I've no words for it...)
Though it is kinda interesting how this follows after Battler on the meta-plane has realized the truth and became fully aware of his own position, which can be seen as Tohya realizing who he really is and what his connection to the events were.

The next Episode starts with Erika being all creepy and marrying Battler, making him mute and forcing him to unveil the truth that he is trying to keep hidden. If we see Erika/Bern/Featherine as a collective identity of not only "the meciless Witch Hunters" but "THE most merciless Witch Hunter"=Hachijo Ikuko...couldn't this create an interesting picture?

We know that Ikuko is kinda creepy in her way of keeping Tohya all to herself but, like jiblue already said, without him she would have likely been left to obscurity. For 3 novels he has been her source and also a very informative source for her obsession with Rokkenjima...and then suddenly, after End is finished, he's like, "Nope, I'm gonna stop giving you any info like we used to and do it like THIS now".
This would also explain on a realistic level why Ikuko would invite Ange NOW and make her read Dawn, because maybe she can give it a perspective that Ikuko is missing.

Then, at the end of EP6 she is sending Bern, who's her miko, which could also be seen as any fan, fellow Witch Hunter or understudy that Ikuko ever had, out to draw the guts out of the game. So maybe EP7 is actually Ikuko gathering up information in order to get that last bit of confirmation that Tohya is suddenly denying her.

This could also explain her behavior in EP8 and her sudden change of heart once she sees Ange's resolve. She was like "I'm gonna reveal all this now!!" but then she reconsidered.

The only thing I'd be not that sure about is whether Ikuko didn't read Eva's diary/know about the whole story and actually needed to find it out herself during EP6 and 7, or if she read it/knew everything and just wanted proper proof to unveil it because she disagreed with Tohya/Battler's opinion on the matter.
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Old 2014-02-05, 17:26   Link #33910
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Originally Posted by Dormin View Post
But even though I don't myself believe in Rosa being a culprit in any way, the ides of her solving epitah is sort of interesting detail: it is clearly shown that she CAN solve it, and for example in episode 2, though varying interpretations can be made, one can claim that "Rosa solved epitah" in the chapter. Though the illogical actions (like referring to talking to kinzo) can be explained by Yasu bribing her, I don't think it is wrong to use rosa solving epitah as part of a theory.
We know though that Beato should have stopped her killing if the epitaph was solved by someone's own ability alone. So Eva, Rosa and Battler were helped/guided into 'solving it' and didn't really solved it on their own

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Originally Posted by Dormin View Post
That's quite a lot said about game that has a cast of nightmare-fuel-tier characters. I still have shivers when I think about Yasu pulling the prank with the doll in ep7. Even the characters that aren't fantasy witches pull out sort of tricks (like Kyrie sort of admitting plotting murder) that'd make me run to the opposite direction very fast.

Overall I think Ryu can write "creepy" stories quite well, even though his horror is sort of lacking. Though I rarely feel actual fear of any kind when reading fictional stories.

Undoubtely that prank was creepy, and Kyrie planning Asumu's murder sounds quite creepy as well but I fear nothing in my mind can top this:

Quote:
".........Could you hear...? ......Battler-san. ...Do you realize......what's about to happen to you......?"
".....................Damn......it......"
Battler's consciousness wasn't completely gone. ...It was very distant......but he was slightly tethered to reality.
...And that......was what made it cruel.

It was as cruel as though the spider called Erika had wrapped Battler up......and was eating him while he was still conscious.
No, she might have been like certain kinds of wasp. It was the cruelty of paralyzing her prey alive so that she could save him for later and eat him.

In other words, her cruelty was similar to that of a predator......
"You can't get out of this closed room. After all, you used all that red truth to show that it was a closed room. So don't worry, and just let yourself be trapped in there forever. ......Because as you do, ......I'll be giving your body some good, long humiliation. .........Let's have a mirror in our bedroom. ......That way, you can see just how you're being humiliated with your own eyes. .........*giggle*giggle*giggle*giggle*!!"
And then, let's have a bird cage hanging from the ceiling. We can stick your beloved witch Beatrice in there. What do you think......? ......Wonderful, isn't it......? Eheheheheheheheheeheheheheheheheh!! Yeah, ......I understand. This is how sweet it is to be standing on the other side... ...Aha, ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha......"
As he listened to this mad laugh, ......Battler couldn't even bring a distressed expression to his face.
His heart was still trapped in the closed room he had created...
His body and soul......would soon be trapped within a new closed room of Erika's.

A closed room......called marriage.
and this:

Quote:
She raised Battler's left hand......and stroked his ring finger as if tasting it.
......Erika pressed the ring of subordination against the tip of his finger...
If a ring is made to fit too tightly, it can hurt and be annoying if it's impossible to take off.

However, ......this ring was never intended to be removed for life anyway, ......so its inner band had been mercilessly narrowed.

Even without the thorns, forcing a small ring like this on would hurt......
"This ring will seal up your body, heart, and soul......for all eternity. ......And you'll become an eternal living doll... ......I won't even let you die. ......You'll be endlessly defiled and humiliated by me, ......and every time I forget the taste of victory, ......I'll use your body to remind me. .........Over......and over again...... ......If you think you can bite off your tongue, now's the time... ......Once this goes on your finger, ...you won't even be able to do that."
"......Ffg...ggg...kk..."
Battler didn't even have the strength to bite his tongue.

......Even if he had, ......Battler didn't want to give up until he found a way to escape the closed room. So he couldn't kill himself.
However, if he accepted the ring, ......he would never be able to even think about escaping from the room, much less commit suicide......
"S......st...stop......it........."
"No way. ......Look......I'm......sticking your finger in......"
"Ghih......gyaggh......it...it huurts.........gggghh...agh..."
It wasn't just the pain of having his finger forced through the tight ring.
......The curse of the ring......fiercely tormented Battler's body from the inside.

That pain would always torment Battler.
......But, fortunately...
The power of the ring even stole away the heart that could understand that pain......

Erika kept screwing that too-small demon's ring on...
"It hurts............! .........!! ...It's...impossible... ......There's no way...it'll fit......"
"......Don't worry. ......It will fit......No problem..."

With an obscene laugh......Erika let a silver thread drip from her mouth...and soaked the finger and the ring.
"......Please relax. We'll stick it in......all at once... ...Please don't waste your energy resisting. ......It'll hurt less if you don't resist, okay...? .........You see? ......Now it's sliding right on......"
"Nooo.........oo.........oo...... .........!"
Slowly...slowly......Battler's finger went deeper...deeper through the ring.

He was pushed through the iron ring of pain and humiliation...which would never be removed again...
"Ooh.........gah..................gyhaah........." "......Come ooon, ......look, okay...? ......It's in all the way to the base, see......?"
"...It...hurts......it...hurts......guhh......Take ...it......off......"
The demon's ring tightened around the finger......so much that it seemed the finger would snap off along with the bone.

......Could Battler's hazy expression of anguish......really describe how unbearable this filthy pain was......?
"......Okay. .........Now that it's on all the way, ......let's add the final touch, okay...? After this, ......you will be mine......forever......"
Erika touched the ring's diamond knob.
......If she twisted it, ......the thorns would bite in...and never let go again...
"N............no......stop......it........."
"Sure. ......Just say 'forgive me, Erika-sama', and I'll stop."

"............R, ......really.........?"

"'Forgive me, Erika-sama, please. I swear to spend the rest of my life as your dog, with a collar around my neck, so at least spare me that ring'. ......If you can say that, I won't make you wear the ring."
"......F.........f......f.........""......Huuuuh.. .? ......I can't really hear you......?"
I won't.........forgive you......
"......I'll never......forgive you......"
"For making you suffer like this...?"
"No. ...I'll...never...forgive you......for defiling.........Beato's...ring........."
Though Battler's eyes had supposedly been forced into a muddled condition, they looked strong for just an instant.

However, it really was only for an instant.
Battler had used up the last of his fleeting resistance......just to say those words.

In his dim consciousness, he had even bitten his own tongue to stay alert......so that he could say those words of resistance until the very end......
".........Of course. It seems you aren't the kind of dog that can be tamed. But it's better that way."

Erika smiled. ......Then, she turned the diamond.
In that instant, ......Battler let out a voiceless scream......and threw his head back...
"Ggh.........gah...ahh............aaaahh...... !!!"

His howl had no voice and could be heard by no one. ......However, it still rang out throughout the cathedral......
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Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
Though it is kinda interesting how this follows after Battler on the meta-plane has realized the truth and became fully aware of his own position, which can be seen as Tohya realizing who he really is and what his connection to the events were.

The next Episode starts with Erika being all creepy and marrying Battler, making him mute and forcing him to unveil the truth that he is trying to keep hidden. If we see Erika/Bern/Featherine as a collective identity of not only "the meciless Witch Hunters" but "THE most merciless Witch Hunter"=Hachijo Ikuko...couldn't this create an interesting picture?

We know that Ikuko is kinda creepy in her way of keeping Tohya all to herself but, like jiblue already said, without him she would have likely been left to obscurity. For 3 novels he has been her source and also a very informative source for her obsession with Rokkenjima...and then suddenly, after End is finished, he's like, "Nope, I'm gonna stop giving you any info like we used to and do it like THIS now".
This would also explain on a realistic level why Ikuko would invite Ange NOW and make her read Dawn, because maybe she can give it a perspective that Ikuko is missing.

Then, at the end of EP6 she is sending Bern, who's her miko, which could also be seen as any fan, fellow Witch Hunter or understudy that Ikuko ever had, out to draw the guts out of the game. So maybe EP7 is actually Ikuko gathering up information in order to get that last bit of confirmation that Tohya is suddenly denying her.

This could also explain her behavior in EP8 and her sudden change of heart once she sees Ange's resolve. She was like "I'm gonna reveal all this now!!" but then she reconsidered.

The only thing I'd be not that sure about is whether Ikuko didn't read Eva's diary/know about the whole story and actually needed to find it out herself during EP6 and 7, or if she read it/knew everything and just wanted proper proof to unveil it because she disagreed with Tohya/Battler's opinion on the matter.
The real problem is that this would then paint a rather scary portraial of Ikuko, who'll remind me more and more of Annie Wilkes from "Misery" (and honestly I've seen a pic of Ikuko in chap 24 looking at the pc at the Rokkenjima tragedy and she was sort of scary and Erika-like) but this however would be denied by Tohya in Ep 8 when he sort of seem to have such a nice relationship with Ikuko who was also worried for Ange...

... so I don't know.

Maybe the 'evil Ikuko' existed not as Ikuko herself but in Tohya/Battler's fears. After all he suspected she was the one who hit him with her car, he might have suspected she figured who he was and was keeping him in the dark, might have felt pressured by her to reveal what he knew/remembered and might have grown the idea Ikuko was an evil person (the Battler inside him might also perceive Ikuko as the one who was keeping him trapped in Tohya's body for her own pleasure), ence reflecting his belief in Featherine (who's visually like her), Bern (her cat/miko) and Erika (Bern's double and likely added in the story by Ikuko as replacement for detective Battler).

Last edited by jjblue1; 2014-02-05 at 17:40.
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Old 2014-02-06, 11:49   Link #33911
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The real problem is that this would then paint a rather scary portraial of Ikuko, who'll remind me more and more of Annie Wilkes from "Misery" (and honestly I've seen a pic of Ikuko in chap 24 looking at the pc at the Rokkenjima tragedy and she was sort of scary and Erika-like) but this however would be denied by Tohya in Ep 8 when he sort of seem to have such a nice relationship with Ikuko who was also worried for Ange...
Not necessarily denied. It would actually fit the theme of Umineko, how everybody has unlimited potential for both a light and a dark side. They seem to have a nice relationship, but so did Rosa and Maria every time Rosa wasn't beating the crap out of Maria or yelling at child service people. Kinzo seemed to be a horrible person, except when he was around his close friends and people who never disappointed him - or at least that is what the EP8 manga implies.

We could even go further and say that Annie Wilkes has both in herself. She DOES love Paul and his work in her very own, very obsessed kinda way...had he done what she asked she might have never harmed him in any way.

Thinking about it now, we only have a claim of how he ended up in the wheelchair. And if we were mean, we could even say that it could exactly be why he didn't go public. She might have threatened him, exposing his secrets, claiming he killed his family, handing him over to the police. It's not something that the story implies, but creepy Ikuko is way in the realm of possibilities.
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Old 2014-02-06, 13:12   Link #33912
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Not necessarily denied. It would actually fit the theme of Umineko, how everybody has unlimited potential for both a light and a dark side. They seem to have a nice relationship, but so did Rosa and Maria every time Rosa wasn't beating the crap out of Maria or yelling at child service people. Kinzo seemed to be a horrible person, except when he was around his close friends and people who never disappointed him - or at least that is what the EP8 manga implies.

We could even go further and say that Annie Wilkes has both in herself. She DOES love Paul and his work in her very own, very obsessed kinda way...had he done what she asked she might have never harmed him in any way.

Thinking about it now, we only have a claim of how he ended up in the wheelchair. And if we were mean, we could even say that it could exactly be why he didn't go public. She might have threatened him, exposing his secrets, claiming he killed his family, handing him over to the police. It's not something that the story implies, but creepy Ikuko is way in the realm of possibilities.
Well, the whole thing would end in a really creepy way, with Ikuko being basically an Erika who won in Ep 6 and Tohya with no hope of salvation from her and maybe Stokkolma syndrome that meets Ange and tells her 'everything is okay'.

I don't know, even if Ikuko has some creepy elements (among which 'oh, I've just found an amnesiac man, let's bribe a doctor to keep this hidden and make him my personal pet...') somehow this seems to be too over the top...
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Old 2014-02-06, 17:05   Link #33913
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I don't know, even if Ikuko has some creepy elements (among which 'oh, I've just found an amnesiac man, let's bribe a doctor to keep this hidden and make him my personal pet...') somehow this seems to be too over the top...
Said about the series with the crazy, suicidal rich guy who kept his daughter as his personal doll in the image of her mother and used WWII explosives to potentially rig his whole island where his family lived in case of...bad finances.
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Old 2014-02-06, 19:36   Link #33914
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Said about the series with the crazy, suicidal rich guy who kept his daughter as his personal doll in the image of her mother and used WWII explosives to potentially rig his whole island where his family lived in case of...bad finances.
We are, however, given explanations for 'Kinzo's heart' and maddness (and mind you, I'm still not fully comfortable with the smooth version given... to me it makes more sense if Kinzo was actually an extremely selfish, violent, full time jerk who might have tried to make out with Yasu as well and was sheeding coccodrille tears in his apologizing to Kuwadorian Beatrice... probably because he regretted she made her escape... after all when he was told the baby died he claimed 'Beatrice' resisted him and escaped him again...). Ikuko either is Yasu or is a character tossed in at the last moment in terms of 'background story' (yes, she showed up in Ep 6 but all we're told about her is she's a writer... there's no background whatsoever... all we have as background for her is given in Ep 8).

I agree she has the potential to be Annie Wilkes and I've been thinking this by ages and I think Ryukishi played on this. But if that's the truth she's just a randomly mad character. Of course it could be argued that actually Erika's failed love story is hers and that's what drove her to insanity so she grabbed the first man she could find (which would also mean either the background given for Furudo Erika was false or they shared a similar past) but still... I don't know, I think Ikuko needed better development and I so hope the manga will fix that one way or another because her actions were... odd to say the least.
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Old 2014-02-06, 19:55   Link #33915
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Ikuko: "Tohya, why, why, WHY? Why did you have to kill off my favorite character Maria? Maybe I should poison you as YOU poisened her?"

Tohya: "Uhhm... I.... no wait! Yea... actually Maria didn't die by poison! Actually she was stung by a special type of bees that just brings you into a comatose state! She lost a lot of her body, including her jaw because of the explosion though, but later on she got a new Cyborg body and lives happily ever after, how is that?"

Ikuko: "Yeeeeees! Maria is alive! MARIA LIIIIIIIVES!"
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Old 2014-02-06, 20:51   Link #33916
GuestSpeaker
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Sorry GreyZone, but it's useless, it's all useless. I can easily crush your little theory. In fact I can state it in red:

"Maria definitely can't have been stung by a bee, or received a new body, or even died in an explosion"

Why not suffer for all eternity in a pot of scalding tea while you think about that one. ahaha.wav


On another topic, it is quite interesting how marriage is painted for Battler and Erika vs for Shannon and George. Guess it isn't all it's cracked up to be when you're marrying the wrong person, is it Yasu?


As for Haguruma's comment, since we know that Ange disappeared shortly after the death of Eva, Ikuko probably couldn't have ever gauged her reaction to releasing the book really. It was either pure speculation/empathy on her part thinking about what Ange may have wanted, or she would have somehow had to try and do it before the Ange's gold-medal dive.


Now, having read the majority of these pages, I've never seen any sort of Jessitrice theory on here before! How do you get around EP 2?
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Old 2014-02-06, 21:49   Link #33917
GreyZone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuestSpeaker View Post
Sorry GreyZone, but it's useless, it's all useless. I can easily crush your little theory. In fact I can state it in red:

"Maria definitely can't have been stung by a bee, or received a new body, or even died in an explosion"
Knox's 2nd. Your argument is invalid!

Heh, try all you can, but it is impossible for you destroy the Ikuko = Annie Wilkes theory!
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Old 2014-02-06, 21:57   Link #33918
Leafsnail
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Join Date: Jun 2010
What's the problem with episode 2? Jessica's death in Turn could very easily be fake, it's never declared in red and she doesn't have any graphically described injuries. If we assume a Shkannon or Shannon/Kanon accomplice I think the rest is easy to explain.

Episode 1 is more problematic, in that she has a basically unbreakable alibi for every murder after the first twilight.
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Old 2014-02-07, 02:51   Link #33919
GuestSpeaker
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Knox's 2nd. Your argument is invalid!
You think I would fall for a trick that simple? You never said my argument is in invalid in red!

I can state with certainty that my claim is the absolute truth, supported with facts witnessed by a human being with his own two eyes. I'll say it more simply:
In the story you are proposing, it would never appear that Maria died in an explosion.....


Though admittedly my riddle is a little obtuse, and I wouldn't be surprised if people can't quite figure out why I can make that claim in red.
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Old 2014-02-07, 02:53   Link #33920
GuestSpeaker
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Join Date: Apr 2012
I am a kind soul though, so I will give you this red for free:

You are the reason I can make that previous claim in red, this trap is your own doing
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