2010-08-28, 22:00 | Link #1042 | |
Senior Member
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I still do not want to go down that path, because it would basically make all of Chiru practically worthless in any kind of reasoning.
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2010-08-28, 22:00 | Link #1043 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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あのベアトリーチェが蘇ることは、二度とない。 The word used by her for revival is 蘇る, which also works for resurrection as well. She's basically saying the old Beatrice will never be back again. Quote:
So, basically, we have proto-Beatrice, which is the one who fell in love with Battler, and final-Beatrice which is the one who received the love towards Battler from proto-Beatrice. In EP4, after battler failed his test, we saw two Beatrices. I believe the one who tested him was probably proto-Beatrice, who hadn't completely given up on him. However, after her failed, she gave up completely and only final-Beatrice remained. However, Battler beat the shit of that Beatrice in EP4, and then after all the events in EP5, Yasu finally gave up, and as a result killed Beatrice. Now, why can the Beatrice we saw in EPs 1-4 cannot be revived? I believe there are several possibilities. 1) The original Beatrice is from 6 years ago, as time passed she changed too. Thus, she cannot go back to who she was. 2) She has no purpose, if Battler has remembered, then there's no need for the previous Beatrice to exist (i.e. the one who trolled Battler, etc.). 3) She's moved on. 4) Featherine's Red refers to something else. 5) There may be another person who also uses the legend of Beatrice and loves Battler. There may be other possibilities, but I cannot think of any. Quote:
It's hard to say. Sometimes I even believe that Red didn't even happen, since you cannot back-log to it.
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2010-08-29, 00:05 | Link #1044 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Floor eh duh?
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EP8:
George is culprit. Kannon is real. Shannon and Jessica and all moms fall for Ghoda. Ghoda vs George. Ghoda wins and solves epitaph. He becomes MAGICAL CHEF Ghoda. Kinzo sacrifices sheep to god. Ghoda and Battler later grow up to be best friends with Amasuka and go on great gun action adventure as the three musketeers. Yes! |
2010-08-29, 00:09 | Link #1045 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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2010-08-29, 00:19 | Link #1047 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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YES Such trolling is indeed something to look forward to after all this time. It's high time Ryukishi pulled out all the stops here, we need something on the same level as Akasaka appearing out of nowhere and demolishing an entire detachment of goons single-handed. Hope being fulfilled? Psh? Love? Boring. Murder? Passe'. Umineko has always had trolling at it's heart, it's time Ryukishi took off the gloves and show us what hes really made of. Last edited by TehChron; 2010-08-29 at 00:20. Reason: Clarification |
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2010-08-29, 07:22 | Link #1048 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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It's not like I'm changing anything because I don't want to accept Bern's story. Yeah, I don't think Bern's story is true and I don't like it one bit, but I'm not creating any new theory to bypass that red truth. Simply using what I've always thought about red truth and author theory, that statement Bern said only means "so far I haven't shown any fake scene", which I can totally believe. As for her statement that she's not the gamemaster, how can I believe her, when in the ura tea party you clearly see her behind a chessboard? Plus why Will used quotation marks when referring to Bern's "truth"? And if it wasn't enough BATTLER tells Ange that the truth about Rokkenjima isn't a scary story. I think there's more than enough here to doubt what Bern's has shown to Lion and Ange.
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2010-08-29, 11:06 | Link #1049 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: HK, China
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Hmm... in the ???, I suppose Bern took the chessboard from Featherine and said she hadn't been a GM at all, so she had to make her own EP8 and gave the red text "this story will not be given a happy end"
You could say Featherine was the GM (観劇の魔女たち) or there was no GM. But Bern had no reason to lie behind the scene in the ???.
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2010-08-29, 11:50 | Link #1050 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I don't think this is what Bern meant there. The way I see it she simply said she wasn't done being the gamemaster or that she didn't really mastered the game the way she wanted to.
Also Featherinne clearly stated in EP6 that she wanted Bern to be the GM of EP7. What do we do about that? Forget it was ever said?
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2010-08-29, 11:56 | Link #1051 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Well according to Featherine, Bern wasn't simply the GM, but her "reader" which seems to imply that all the information was from Featherine herself and Bern was just there to spin it into the episode. Perhaps Bern had conclusions of her own that weren't involved in the story?
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2010-08-29, 12:10 | Link #1053 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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It's possible I could be remembering incorrectly, I'll look for it again.
Edit: Bern says that she's the reader, and that the answers will be strangely interpreted since she has no love. Featherine goes further to say she can be the GM of the tale, and that she only cares about the answers not how they're presented as a tale. I suppose it matters if you think "reader of the answers" and "GM of the tale" are mutually exclusive or not, although I'm not necessarily sure they are exclusive. |
2010-08-30, 03:39 | Link #1056 | |
Awakened One
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Italy
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I think it means that the original author won't write the character anymore. In this case, Yasu is satisfied that Battler reached the truth and has no need to play Beatrice anymore. Battler can make his own Beatrice with "magic" (=imagination) but she will never be the same as the original. Similarly, I can write a Sherlock Holmes novel but he will never be Doyle's Holmes, even if I understood his character perfectly.
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2010-08-30, 15:00 | Link #1057 | |
Intellectual Rapist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
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But Battler has a reason to lie.
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2010-08-30, 15:10 | Link #1058 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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But ryukishi doesn't, unless it's the most pointed and important lie in the entire series that makes the right answer click properly and the lie is really easy to spot.
He has a reason to lie, but he can't, or there'd be riots.
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2010-08-30, 15:55 | Link #1060 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Is that a "I didn't read Ep7 and I want to know what the word refers to anyway" question, or a more deep and metaphysical question about the nature of this personage? It's seriously hard to tell.
"Yasu" is the nickname of a certain character, derived from the last name "Yasuda" who is a Fukuin student selected for service at Ushiromiyas at a tender age of six (sounds like someone we know, right?) and is later claimed by other characters to be "the man from 19 years ago", the surviving baby Natsuhi dropped off the cliff. Most of Ep7 is devoted to the life story of that character, who takes over much of Shannon's previously known biographical details. That "Yasu" eventually goes on to become Beatrice through solving the epitaph and being acknowledged by Kinzo as the only child of Beatrice-2 and Kinzo himself. (And thus both Kinzo's child and grandchild, yes.) The text remains weasely about whether "Yasu" is equivalent to Shannon or Kanon or not, because at least once a character refers both to Shannon and Yasu as distinct people in the same sentence. It does apparently want us to believe it's the hypothetical character who plays both Shannon and Kanon, but it is not quite conclusive on the subject. "Yasu" is also the name of the culprit in a very famous ancient murder mystery text adventure game for NES and other machines of that era, so the name is clearly a reference.
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