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View Poll Results: Valkyria Chronicles - Episode 14 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 5 | 12.50% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 11 | 27.50% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 13 | 32.50% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 5 | 12.50% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 7.50% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 2.50% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 2 | 5.00% | |
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-07-08, 13:02 | Link #122 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Please remember that there's a Spoiler & Speculation thread. I moved a bunch of recent posts there. No future event game spoilers, hints, or questions in episode threads, even behind spoiler tags.
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2009-07-08, 14:06 | Link #123 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Singapore
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-A portion of the escaping Darcsens died (50%? rough estimate). <-bad -The town was liberated from the Empire's control. <-good -The surviving Darcsens gained a bit more freedom. <-good -Faldio and company survived. <-good What would definitely have happened if idealism (save all Darcsens) was prioritized instead of logic and reasoning, aka Faldio decides that they should surrender/Faldio decides to not attack: Ending A: -Faldio and company gets their location locked-on by the artillery unit -> they get killed. -Escaping Darcsens, regardless of whether they surrender or continue to run, would either get gunned down by the pursuing soldiers OR get bombed by the artillery unit. -point 1 and 2 ->everyone dies. -Nothing really changes in Fouzen. Darcsens died? Import more from the Empire to replace the ones that died. Reinforce the defenses of the town to ensure that rebellion will not take place again. Not very positive changes. Ending B: -Faldio and company gets captured -> turn into prisoners of war. The group gets tortured into giving out millitary secrets/info and/or eventually killed/used as slaves. Depending on the morality levels of the Empire's prison guards, the females might be sexually abused and/or killed as well. -Darcsens either get killed by pursuing soldiers/artillery, or re-captured and put back into concentration camps, with far harsher conditions (lesser supply of food, tougher punishment for any sign of resistance, more guards around the perimeter to ensure that escape/rebellion is minimized). -Again, reinforced defenses for the town, which means lesser chances for future attempts to liberate the town without introducing EVEN MORE casualties. I'm interested in what logically possible yet idealistic solution Faldio could have taken other than what he had ordered to minimized non-miilitary casualties, based on the given situation. |
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2009-07-08, 14:14 | Link #124 | ||
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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It's an full-fledged national army they are dealing with, not a bunch of insurgents or terrorists. Quote:
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2009-07-08, 18:51 | Link #129 | ||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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I was hoping that they would blow up the bridge before the train got within 100m of it. Usually such a heavy vehicle moving at a decent speed would take a kilometer or so of track before it could come to a halt. If it failed to do so on open ground, the train would have derailed, and on a bridge, it would have surely plunged to its doom. Given that this was an armored train, it should have had extra mass and would have been all that much harder to stop. One of the consequences of the strategy-lite approach is that I don't know if there's any way to even discuss the implications of Faldio's orders. Since Valkyria combat works by totally different rules, who knows what would work or what's a good idea? Heck, under realistic rules, the Gallians would have been slaughtered in this episode, and that would be the end of it. Quote:
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2009-07-08, 19:19 | Link #130 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
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As we speak of rail artillery here is an example from world war II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav
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2009-07-08, 19:32 | Link #131 | |
Salt Levels Critical
Join Date: Oct 2007
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2009-07-08, 19:46 | Link #132 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
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By the way. I just found a good example for irresponsible command: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing...n_World_War_II Feel free to read it and compare the persons who gave permission to bomb Dresden and Faldio who gave order to attack. The example is not 1:1 to VC but it also ends up in discussion if the mission was a war crime or justified.
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2009-07-08, 20:04 | Link #133 | |||
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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By your analysis then would the train have jumped dozens of meters forward when the bomb exploded? It seemed the train just jumped up and stopped right in their tracks. With such momentum everyone would've just smashed up against the front of the train (Pretty sure they weren't wearing seatbelts either). Quote:
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There was a snag in the operation and Faldio had to adapt and act quickly before things deteroriated further. To call him irresponsible and the son of satan is ridiculous. The objective of the mission was to take out the train (at the cost of the squad if possible - Damon's way of killing two birds with one stone). They achieved it, end of story. |
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2009-07-08, 23:49 | Link #134 | ||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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2009-07-09, 01:08 | Link #135 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Munich, Germany
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2009-07-09, 02:50 | Link #136 | |
Senior Member
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On the other hand they were using the so called "Shtrafnyje Bataliony" a group of 'soldiers' made from prisoners. They used very little of equipment on them sending these battalions into the hot and practically suicidal missions. As a prisoners they had very little choice, because Soviets army men were told to shoot at these battalions if they were to disobey. So yeah, a pretty tough situation to be in - enemy shoots you down, your own army men shoots you down as well. On the other hand, if they were to succeed and show bravery they would get their prison time cut or sometimes given a full amnesty. |
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2009-07-09, 03:42 | Link #138 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Singapore
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1) The allies were already winning the war at that point in time (12 weeks before surrender), and it has been argued, at least based on wiki information, that the bombing of the city was rather unnecessary to begin with. The battle at Fouzen was not only at a much smaller scale, but had a different level of impact in the war compared to that German city. Fouzen was one of the main sources of Ragnites (?) that was important for BOTH Imperials and Gallian forces. 2) The allies did not have some enemy superior cannon/artillery or whatnot that was threatening their forces' retreat and offensive routes, nor did they have a "deadline" to meet before said superior armament would annihilate their forces. Faldio's group did. 3) Do you remember episode 13? The armored train artillery was already destroying the militia tank battalion way OUTSIDE the vicinity of the town. How the heck would Faldio's group be able to retreat in the first place? They can't outrun the artillery's range, and the mines routes are pretty much limited to within the town. They could hide inside the mines for maybe a day or so before they get found by the Imperials and get killed anyway. Once again, Faldio's group retreating DOES NOT ensure that the Darcens would be spared of the artillery attack. 4) As it stands, there were no logically alternatives that would have saved more people than Faldio's solution, which is why I find it amusing that some people are putting the blame on him based on his situation. Again, please remember the EXACT situation he was in. i) Enemy artillery still functional. Located at a highly advantageous position. ii) Rosie/Zaka did not have any form of grenades/rpgs in their possession. I doubt gunfire alone could set off the remaining explosives, especially from their positions. The armored train also had it's own anti-personal cannons to protect itself from approaching enemies iii) Isara's stolen tank was not in range before the first shot was fired. iv) They had no ways to communicate with each other over long distances. Given the situation above, there was just no real alternatives. Feel free to correct me if you can somehow find a better solution. |
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2009-07-09, 10:25 | Link #140 | |||
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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"you sacrificed the darscens, the innocent civilians" I mean he treats them like animals yet calls them innocent? Quote:
I mean seriously who carries a sniper rifle in a tank? Quote:
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