[Manga] Naruto Chapter 554 Discussion

[HasuMasu]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Is that supposed to be a good thing?

I don't know, didn't he say he wanted to do Minato as a kid next?

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Haak

Hmm...I suppose that's actually rather applaudable that he's willing to establish that before his bigger fights. It makes things a lot less contrived since if he didn't he could've pretty much have Naruto do just about anything in his bigger fights and made him as powerful as he felt like. *cough*Bleach*cough*

*nods nods* at least we're seeing a not-so-powerful naruto. my only complaint is that we didn't get to see sasuke after that teaser panel last chapter. no madara, itachi or kabuto either. but i suppose this is better than the previous chapter where naruto played hero to gaara and oonoki.

Is that supposed to be a good thing?

well, to have the series prolonged would be pure bliss for devoted naruto fanatics. but for people who had gotten tired of the series it would be plain torment. personally, i'd like it to end with this war. it may take years to finish but it should end with this war. this war is supposed to be the grand stage, it's the perfect set up for a last epic battle fitting for a series finale. if there's a better way to end the series then i'd welcome it but right now, i can't imagine ending the series in a much bigger backdrop.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by mrShady

No I did not miss that training arc. Naruto already had all the clones running around before he met Itachi and unless I missed him undoing the technique before meeting with Itachi and redoing it after meeting him Naruto's clones could not have gained that knowledge.

There's no need to undoing it.
Undoing it only necessary when he needs knowledge from the bunshins.

Look at Rasen-Shuriken training.
The main body got the knowledge.
Who make a better progress first ? It was his bunshins.

Main body received knowledge, all bunshins received knowledge also.
When bunshin received knowledge, he need to undoing the clones so he got their knowledges.
If not, Naruto won't be able to apply such teamwork to all of his bunshin.

[mrShady]

Originally Posted by Tactics

There's no need to undoing it.
Undoing it only necessary when he needs knowledge from the bunshins.

Look at Rasen-Shuriken training.
The main body got the knowledge.
Who make a better progress first ? It was his bunshins.

Main body received knowledge, all bunshins received knowledge also.
When bunshin received knowledge, he need to undoing the clones so he got their knowledges.
If not, Naruto won't be able to apply such teamwork to all of his bunshin.

So you are saying that when the main body gains any kind of knowledge it is automatically relayed to his clones? And when a clone gains knowledge the technique needs to be released for the main body to know?
Either I missed something or your wrong.

I reread that specific training arc and it is never mentioned that the clones recieve any kind of knowledge without releasing the jutsu first.
The only thing being said is that the main body recieves knowledge when the clone with the new knowledge releases the jutsu.
If it was mentioned elsewhere would you be so kind as to name the specific volume, chapter and page number so I can look it up, thanks in advance.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Detective-san

I don't know, didn't he say he wanted to do Minato as a kid next?

well that would be another series now, wouldn't it? it should be called minato not naruto. besides, i don't think he needs to make another series about naruto's father. he could just make a gaiden arc similar to the one he made for kakashi.

[HasuMasu]

Iya, I'm pretty sure it would be a new series.

If it isn't, then I am disappoint.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by mrShady

So you are saying that when the main body gains any kind of knowledge it is automatically relayed to his clones? And when a clone gains knowledge the technique needs to be released for the main body to know?
Either I missed something or your wrong.

I reread that specific training arc and it is never mentioned that the clones recieve any kind of knowledge without releasing the jutsu first.
The only thing being said is that the main body recieves knowledge when the clone with the new knowledge releases the jutsu.
If it was mentioned elsewhere would you be so kind as to name the specific volume, chapter and page number so I can look it up, thanks in advance.

Yup, it is.

The manga only said the technique is need to be released so Naruto could gain knowledge from his bunshins. But it doesn't mean the technique needs to be released each time the real self gain a knowledge.

It comes from logic actually.

Like a computer network, each time a branch unit receiving information, that branch unit need to send an update to the main unit.
But when the main unit make an update, all other branch unit follows automatically.

Sorry for my bad English

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Detective-san

I don't know, didn't he say he wanted to do Minato as a kid next?

I think the story of Minato alone is not enough for a saga. I mean, we already see his demise in complete detail and aside from fighting Madara, he (probably) only fights in small skirmishes. With that said, I DO want to see young Minato's relationship with other jounins (Shikaku & co.) and probably even with the younger Itachi.

If it's a prequel series that Kishimoto want, I think he should combine the story of Minato and Itachi. The only characters that I think can carry a prequel on their own are Senjuu Hashirama and Sarutobi Hiruzen. They have long history and their past are still quite clouded. If it's a sequel that he want, well, we already know who'll be the main character: Konohamaru.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

That or the zombie body being that strong or this being a plot hole

They commented on his strong body in past-tense, which means that he had this ability when he was alive, so this in no way, shape, or form, a plot-hole.

Nagato's body rebuilt itself very fast after being burnt by amaterasu, so we can say that the raikage just regenerated very fast his cells/body.

Or, we can just read what was said in the chapter and go off of the facts. According to the chapter, the Raikage's body was strong and resilient enough to withstand any jutsu, and he was able to stand toe to toe with a bijuu. I don't know why you're searching for "clues" from previous chapters to try and explain this away when all we need to explain this, is right in chap. 554. Perhaps you don't want to accept that someone is strong enough to withstand Naruto's FRS.

That is what i was complaining about, there should have been more damage Suddenly dumbing down the FRS is a bad solution, after Kishimoto hyped it up so much, i know there is power inflation in shonen manga like this but if the FRS is so useless at this stage i wonder how much time will pass until the strongest guys can blow up planets

You're jumping to conclusions, the FRS wasn't "dumbed down", Naruto simply faced an opponent that had the ability to withstand it is all. Also, saying that there should have been more damage is essentially saying that Kishimoto's interpretation of this is wrong and yours is correct.

The guy who is the new "yellow flash" is being saved by people who should be much slower than he is, that is the strange thing.

Naruto just wasn't paying attention behind him(because he was facing the Raikage right after he withstood the FRS), and was grabbed by that cloud ninja, thats all... I really don't think it was that big of a deal.

Let's see: [...]

I meant this chapter, when you said that I thought you were talking about the current chapter, but i see what you mean now.

Well in that case we can just say this is some magical body, with no explanation given why a body can stand a jutsu that completely erased human path pain.

We don't need an explaination on his body's durability(just as we don't need any for the other kage's ability), and Human path pein's body was a normal human body as far as durability was concerned so I don't see what Human path has to do with this Raikage.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

Or, we can just read what was said in the chapter and go off of the facts. According to the chapter, the Raikage's body was strong and resilient enough to withstand any jutsu, and he was able to stand toe to toe with a bijuu.

You don't have any "facts" about how it can survive the FRS. The FRS was hyped up as an ultimate wind nature jutsu, wind being the strongest attacking element. So it was rather disappointing to see it being useless so early in this war. But i guess i should not complain about it being often useless since that's the case with amaterasu too It just seems to be useless because it's often used against very high level ninja and on top of that these ninja often are lucky enough to have some method of countering or avoiding the attack.

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

We don't need an explaination on his body's durability(just as we don't need any for the other kage's ability)

Yes, the author does not have to give an explanation, but Kishimoto tends to give some explanation for newly introduced abilities and powers, usually involving some special use of chakra. It was him who explained the elements, it was him who explained how Kakuzu used earth element to strengthen his body, and then to explain how lighting can cut through earth when Kakashi destroyed Kakuzu's first heart, it was also explained how the current raikage uses his lighting element to make an armor and to speed up himself. So if it was another author/manga i would not expect any explanation.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

You don't have any "facts" about how it can survive the FRS.

...Except the fact that the cloud ninja told Naruto that the Raikages body was "strong and resilient enough to withstand any kind of jutsu", and went on to describe his body as the "strongest sheild". I think the FRS falls into the category of "any type of jutsu".

It just seems to be useless because it's often used against very high level ninja and on top of that these ninja often are lucky enough to have some method of countering or avoiding the attack

I guess they're living up to themselves being called high-level ninja, by being able to deal with high-level jutsu. I for one wouldn't expect Naruto to be able to simply use a powerful jutsu and just have it work against Kage-Level opponents, he apparently has to work for the jutsu to hit, similar to the way he had to work at catching the Pein bodies with it. The Raikage can withstand FRS, fine, but to me that doesn't make it "useless". Sasuke's genjitsu was countered easily by bee, but afterwards he easily incapacitated an S-Class ninja with it, and then used it cleverly against Danzou and even ended up winning the fight with it. I guess you and I have a different idea about what the term "useless" means.

Yes, the author does not have to give an explanation, but Kishimoto tends to give some explanation for newly introduced abilities and powers, usually involving some special use of chakra.

This Raikage is dead, and I doubt him or his body type will have much to do with the plot. I don't see a reason for the explanation to go beyond simply saying that his body has a special property.

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

...Except the fact that the cloud ninja told Naruto that the Raikages body was "strong and resilient enough to withstand any kind of jutsu", and went on to describe his body as the "strongest sheild". I think the FRS falls into the category of "any type of jutsu".

Guess busted up cells don't mean jack to zombies.

@neg-repper to my last post here: It was actually a compliment to Naruto, not a complaint, thought that was pretty straightforward.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

...Except the fact that the cloud ninja told Naruto that the Raikages body was "strong and resilient enough to withstand any kind of jutsu", and went on to describe his body as the "strongest sheild". I think the FRS falls into the category of "any type of jutsu".

That's the usual bullshit, the guy calls the zombie raikage-sama, he is just hyping up his beloved raikage, you talk about that as if that random guy knows anything about the FRS's power compared to the what he has seen until now. Even Tsunade had to exampine Kakuzu's body to understand how exactly the jutsu works. By your logic in the next chapter Naruto won't be able to beat him since nothing can beat the raikage's body, not even a demon's chakra ball. But of course when in a manga/anime someone tells us that nobody can beat this attack/defense then the next thing we see is that it gets beaten

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

I guess they're living up to themselves being called high-level ninja, by being able to deal with high-level jutsu. I for one wouldn't expect Naruto to be able to simply use a powerful jutsu and just have it work against Kage-Level opponents, he apparently has to work for the jutsu to hit, similar to the way he had to work at catching the Pein bodies with it. The Raikage can withstand FRS, fine, but to me that doesn't make it "useless". Sasuke's genjitsu was countered easily by bee, but afterwards he easily incapacitated an S-Class ninja with it, and then used it cleverly against Danzou and even ended up winning the fight with it.

I agree here (as i explained in the post you were responding here), when you think about it, it's not useless, but when you just read the chapter the first time it's out you can have the first impression that it's useless, i just stated my first impressions in my first post to which you responded, and without analyzing many other chapters, here in this chapter i felt that the rasenshuriken didn't live up to the hype made by Kishimoto. And if you go back to the first page of the thread you see many similar complaints about this, the first impressions after just reading the chapter quickly.

[mrShady]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Yup, it is.

The manga only said the technique is need to be released so Naruto could gain knowledge from his bunshins. But it doesn't mean the technique needs to be released each time the real self gain a knowledge.

It comes from logic actually.

Like a computer network, each time a branch unit receiving information, that branch unit need to send an update to the main unit.
But when the main unit make an update, all other branch unit follows automatically.

Sorry for my bad English

I do not disagree with you completely since what your saying is most logical. However no matter how logical it might be it can not be considered canon until it was actually said in universe.
If you can post a link or an excerpt from the manga that specifically says this I can not really see it as fact.
My own assumption also has no basis. So until someone can clarify we won't know for sure.

[HasuMasu]

It works the same way for knowledge gained by the original body.

Simply because during the wind training they were all equal, however
if the clones were also receiving the experience of the original
body, then it wouldn't make sense.

[Takashipl]

But Naruto tried to create a clone, which then was dispelled - which means all clones should have gotten update with information that clone had, or am I misunderstanding this technique?

[HasuMasu]

Hmm, it seems the creation of clones and the information is separate.

So even if he dispels 1 clone, the others should be fine.

[iBeast]

What's the point of revealing Sasuke last chapter?

[HasuMasu]

Kishi couldn't take it anymore.

Btw, who else misses Nobodyman?

[rajin]

kishi always make people restless and when people think now that things is of no point . kishi brings it forward and make it worthy and special again .

that's how kishi worrks.

last 3 chapters are good because ITACHI made them special .
naruto just sparkle and bee is busy in rap .

everyone else is fodder . except KABUTO TOBI AND ITACHI there is nothing worth mention.

read this its far better than manga itself taken from here

Naruto is concentrating on making the Bijuu Bomb when, {dammit it is taking to long, not sure if I am getting it. Doesn’t quit feel right.}

Temari, “what is he doing? Is that a dark rasengan or something?!”

Scene switches to Naruto and Bee.

Naruto, “Uncle Bee, I am sorry.”

Bee, “What do you mean, me and you are clean!” gives a thumbs up

Naruto stops and goes out of RS, “you were right, I am using this too much, I promised my self when I was younger to get stronger before I even knew about the Fox. Then I promised Captain Yamato to get stronger and depend on my own power, he believes that is enough for me.”

He makes a clone sign.

“Now I am using this chakra as if it is mine, it isn’t it belongs to the fox, it has been pulling at me but I try to pretend as if nothing is going on. I have to do this my way the Fox is and will always be….”

Scene switch to clone Naruto.

The Raikage knocks the eye patch guy out of the way then goes for Naruto.

Naruto, {dammit, too slow, still too slow! This is..}

“…a last resort, not first!“

Poof the clone disperses.

Raikage is surprised, as is everyone else.

Temari, “Okay people it’s up to us let’s go!” { that was just a clone? Very impressive, as always}

Back to Naruto.

He holds his head.

“wow, so much info at once I forgot how many I sent out, dammit there are people in trouble, but I can’t think about that now. I have to concentrate on what I can do.”
Bee, “way to go on being self reliant, but this a big war how you gonna stop it?”

Naruto looks up, “I am not…the alliance is. I am one man no matter how many clones I make it’s still just me” {thanks Sasuke}

He makes two clones.

Clone one, “uhm there is only 3 of us now, why?”

Clone 2, “yeah what do you want us to do in this big war?”

Naruto, “think for a moment, you know what I know. You two come up with a plan, you know where I am going when you come up with it, then make two more tell them to plan for the next place an to do that same thing again. After you tell them that cancel yourselves, oh and make sure you make the plan the Naruto Uzumaki way!”

He does a thumbs up, and they do to.

Clones, “got it!”

Scene change.

Ninja are being thrown and killed by Edo-Raikage.

Kabuto, “this is kind of fun, I really should have done more research on my little army. He should have been Nagato’s partner instead of Itachi. But oh well. I may actually send him to different areas after this, maybe even their HQ. That would be fun.”

Back to the fight.

Temari and a few ninja are left standing with the eye patch guy.

Temari, “I can’t believe he took so many of us out? He was killed by 10,000, Why are we not winning here?!”

Eye patch guy, “they did not kill him, he committed a suicide jutsu to destroy them and himself.”

Alliance ninja, “now you tell us!”

Edo Raikage looks directly at Temari and comes in for the killing blow going to two fingers”

Temari, “too fast.” {I am sorry brothers}

Ka-thooommm!!!!

Smoke and dust cover the battlefield. as the smoke clears there is a two page view of the field. Bee is holding the Edo-Raikage’s fist with his Bijuu fist, behind him is 8 Naruto’s bracing him. Temari and the others are scattered away with Naruto’s covering them from the blast. Everyone recovers.

Edo-Raikage looks at Bee, says nothing. Tries to strike him with the other hand.

Naruto’s disperse as he swings upward then…

Naruto grabbing that hand, “no you don’t old grandpa Raikage!”

He is in Sage mode.

Bee tosses the Edo up in the air, “now!”

Naruto, “right!”

He disperses.

Above the Edo in the air, “Sage Art, rasengan Barrage!”

A sage Naruto Clone appears coming down on top of Edo Raikage sending him down fast.

Naruto disperses.

Bee swings Samehada and sends him back in the air a different direction.

We see two big dents in his back form the barrage.

“Sage Style: Kata attack”

He comes up using katas to attack the scar on his chest. Edo blocks most but gets hit by a kick he does sending him even further.

Temari, “what are they doing?!”

Bee, “don’t worry ninja geisha, we got this with pleasure!”

Temari, {was that a joke about my fan?}

Soon we see Edo Raikage land in water.

Splooosh!!

In the area we see ninja among them is Darui.

Darui, “3rd Raikage?! Him too? But what sent him crashing down?”

We see the same sage Naruto Clone land soon at the edge of the water.

The Edo Raikage is getting up but he is healing slower than before.

Darui, {Leaf Jinchuriki?!} “hey you, you better get out of there!”

He starts to charge up HIS black lighting.

A voice from off sides, “I will take it from here, thanx.”

It is Naruto walking past Darui talking to his clone.

Naruto clone disperses.

The Edo Raikage is back to normal.

Switch to Kabuto, “dammit I have to refocus to take over all that quick movement and field relocation! {did you do that on purpose Naruto? Have you figured this thing out? No impossible, too stupid, just luck.}

Naruto, “I see your mind is back by your facial expression, I am Naruto Uzumaki of the Ninja Alliance form the Leaf village. I am about to defeat you.”

Edo Raikage, “your cocky like those Leaf ninja, knocking me around a bit won’t help you.”

Naruto, “look around you, you can’t use anything that would stop me.”

Edo Raikage looks around at all the water, “ha ha ha ha ha ha ha”

Darui is looking confused, “why is he laughing?”

Edo Raikage starts smiling, “lol, your gonna be Hokage some day kid. Ha ha ha. So simple that you…you are a genius in your own right!”

Suddenly Naruto is right at him coming up with his Kunai extended but it is charged.

It strikes Edo Raikage, “wha? How did you …so ..easily?!”

Naruto, “wind charged kunai Old Grandpa Raikage, next step, restraining you.”

His eyes go sage, “Naruto Sage Art: natural energy injection!”

The Raikage turns to stone.

Kabuto in his HQ, “No!!!! No!!! just as I was getting full control again, dammit!”

Darui, {what the hell is this guy, he just stopped him with in moments?} Hey Blondie, your on our side, right?”

Ten ten comes up, “Naruto!? I say that, amazing!”

He starts walking over to them with the Raikage statue on his shoulder, “thanx Ten Ten, why is your chakra so low? I can tell, you must really been showing them what for, huh?”

Ten Ten thinking back to the fan, “uh, yeah, you know how it is.”

He hands the Statue over to Darui by putting it down beside him.

Naruto, “here you go, I thank you guys are gathering all the zombie guys up right?”

Darui nods his head.

Naruto, “well I suggest you don’t take them back to your camp or put them together, this war is full of surprises, can’t be too safe, okay?”

Darui, “yes sir, Naruto Senpai”

Naruto surprised, “Huh? No way, I am just ag Genin actually, be safe guys.”

He disperses.

Darui, “Genin…and a clone?”

He looks at Ten Ten

“were still gonna be allied with the Leaf after this right?”

Back at Temari 7 company.

Naruto walks out from unknown locale and walks up to Bee and does a fist Bump.

Temari, “well you and thse clones are always something else. What about the Raikage?”

Bee, “by the smile on my nephew’s face, he must be in his place!”

Naruto, “yes sir! Everything is fine and..”

He touches his temple wit two fingers.

“we have our next Plane Uncle bee, :\Let’s go!”

Right before he leaves he turns to Temari, “Gaara is Okay, you still have two brother Temari, so fight with that in your heart!”

They leave.

Temari looks up with out a flinch, {thanks Naruto, thanx.}

Scene switches to Mizukage.

He is standing in front of someone that is not being seen except his foot.

Edo Mizukage, “Your turn now huh? Well I do hope your smarter than the rest. I am an illusion, you have to find the clam and destroy it to defeat me, but you probably don’t get it”

Suddenly the whole area is starting to get foggy.

Mizukage, “huh? What is fog gonna do?” {wait, this isn’t fog this is….millions of tiny sand particles?!}

We see Gaara standing with his arms up in the air as if manipulation something.

Gaara, “Dust Particle expansion!”

Edo Mizukage, “are trying to attack me?! I told you…”

Gaara, “no, find you…..there!” he points

Tsuchikage floating above making his attack, “got it Kazekage!”

Mizukage shown with the clam behind him, looking at the fake Mizukage and seein gthe blast coming for him, “”well I ‘ll be damned…”

Fwwashhhh “….again” kaBoooMMm

We see a battle field with ninja laid out we see Lee, gai weak but not out, we now see Kakashi holding Zabuza sword in the ground leaning against it like a crutch. Sakura is healing him and there are other Med ninja scattered around.

Kakashi, “you should go back to the Med camp, I am not important. I will defeat them even if it cost me my life.”

Sakura, “well seeing as how your next in line for Hokage and my sensei YOU are important. Besides how would you have a chance to defeat anyone?”

We see random Alliance ninja fighting the swordsmen left.

Kakashi, “well just make sure the sealing team is god I will need them. I am going to take the bastards down!”

A voice form off sides. “That doesn’t sound like Kakashi I know, talking much less the last Hokage…”

Kakashi, “hmmmm, last Hokage?”

We see Naruto with Bee Behind him with Samehada propped on his shoulder.

“the last Hokage before me!”

What’s the plan for this battle? Are we seeing a better Naruto without the Fox chakra? How will he help defeat the swordsmen?

Next, “Enter: Team Uzumaki”