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[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

This is the argument of modern minority in America, which is used to put down other minorities. It is like saying "Why can't these other people be like these other, they must be lazy bums" and ignore the political, economical, and other problems that are not their fault.

I'm not sure to follow you there.

The point I'm just trying to make across is that several cultures and groups suffered bigotry, discrimination, starvation and several other things throughout history, but a number of them found other ways to win their point without making a bad name of their group/affiliation.

Right now, Islam is in a very rough patch with all those extremists. However, that should be no excuse for the sane ones to make no effort in cutting the support given to those radicals. That's why I wrote earlier that not calling out for a crime is as bad as committing a crime yourself.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

There you go.

When the elite is not doing their job, they must take the blame. It's simple as that. We spend days to criticize our politicians and sometimes religious authorities for bad things, why? Because there are supposed to be leaders who lead out of problems, nothing less.

Radical imams (who side with extremist) are pretty influencial in their domain... Not all "peaceful" imams are like that. Most of them never failed to teach "the rightful way"... it depends now on the listeners if they're are willing to listener or not.... This imams are simple people and not like those who shout saying "YOU ARE WRONG!" and just be found dead at the corner of the street later....

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Right now, Islam is in a very rough patch with all those extremists. However, that should be no excuse for the sane ones to make no effort in cutting the support given to those radicals.

I'm a sane Muslim who hate radicals... Do you think that it's wise for me to go to their place and telling them " Stop it or I'll tell the authorities".... I bet they'll never let me leave alive.... So it's still my fault that I value my life?

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

The point I'm just trying to make across is that several cultures and groups suffered bigotry, discrimination, starvation and several other things throughout history, but a number of them found other ways to win their point without making a bad name of their group/affiliation.

Those several cultures and groups don't have some of the world's most powerful countries either actively or supporting the government that keeps them in their low position. Why do you think Germany/Japan/Korea were able to develop but not the Arab world?

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Right now, Islam is in a very rough patch with all those extremists. However, that should be no excuse for the sane ones to make no effort in cutting the support given to those radicals. That's why I wrote earlier that not calling out for a crime is as bad as committing a crime yourself.

Sure, because you're looking at only the news and ignoring the mass majority who are calling out the radicals. I mean, you live in Canada of all places and can't see that? Exactly what are you seeing in your own country?

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Urzu 7

I kind of know what you are talking about. Do you have any examples so we could better understand your point? I'm a bit confused about you saying "This is what some minorities say to other minorities".

I spelled it wrong there, suppose to be model minority. Basically, some politicians would use the example of success of one minority groups to ridicule other minorities. With Asians having success in America financially, but the problems of poverty still plagues African Americans. So they would say why can't African Americans be like Asian, and ignore the problems in the ghetto. You can't compare two different groups and expect for them to have the same outcome. So when KYF said " lack of clevernesss/intelligence or a lack of will ", it is the same thing. He is not trying looking at the problem in a bigger picture, instead he is solely blaming the Muslims and heavily implying them to be inferior culturally.

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

The point I'm just trying to make across is that several cultures and groups suffered bigotry, discrimination, starvation and several other things throughout history, but a number of them found other ways to win their point without making a bad name of their group/affiliation.
Right now, Islam is in a very rough patch with all those extremists. However, that should be no excuse for the sane ones to make no effort in cutting the support given to those radicals. That's why I wrote earlier that not calling out for a crime is as bad as committing a crime yourself.

The problem in the region is not something they can solve on their own. Just because one group did it, that does not mean Muslims are able to since it is not the same problem. We have to look at the situation, era, and many different factors before we just generalize.There are external factors here that needs to be accounted.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

I'm a sane Muslim who hate radicals... Do you think that it's wise for me to go to their place and telling them " Stop it or I'll tell the authorities".... I bet they'll never let me leave alive.... So it's still my fault that I value my life?

No, but if you somehow know someone (who is part of your family or because you're friends with the person's family) is involved in something like that, a time to sit and talk from heart to heart at home would be a good idea. Seriously how many of those (mostly young) people would feel unmoved if they are threatened of being disowned by their own family? I hope you won't tell me the radicals would go as far as to shoot family members and family's friends.

That bit I mentioned earlier about Northern Ireland is a good reference about how depriving radicals from their primary resource (people) by in-family discussions at home and threats of being disowned helped in reducing the number of radicals in the end after over 2 decades of civil war/crisis. BTW, those IRA guys were very intimidating in some districts under their control too.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

I hope you won't tell me the radicals would go as far as to shoot family members and family's friends.

Actually yeah.... These people are brained wash.... Did you know that most of these guys are so radical to the point that they believe that they're the only TRUE MUSLIMS... the rest are just FAKES... so killing them is not sin...

[LeoXiao]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Actually yeah.... These people are brained wash.... Did you know that most of these guys are so radical to the point that they believe that they're the only TRUE MUSLIMS... the rest are just FAKES... so killing them is not sin...

More about that... a lot of the terrorists are recruited from uneducated, impoverished people who grew up in crappy/wartorn conditions; when they hear some BS about having 72 virgins in heaven if they become a suicide bomber, they might believe it.

Some people have been banned... this place is dangerous

[flying ^]

... I wonder if I'm the only one here thinks the term 'Caucasian' should be strictly defined (in the U.S) as someone who hails from the Caucasus region.

ex: Two Caucasian males of Russian nationality from Dagestan province_______________

[SaintessHeart]

Well these people are given religious education WITHOUT being taught how to read. so they cannot read through the entire religious text and gain the full perspective.

In the Quran, I remember reading that only that being up there has the sole right to judge, all the Ulema and Imams are only allowed to advise fellow humans, not based on the incentives of the 72 virgins, but rather on respect for ALL of its creation.

[Urzu 7]

But then what will the rest of us whities be known as?

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Well these people are given religious education WITHOUT being taught how to read. so they cannot read through the entire religious text and gain the full perspective.

In the Quran, I remember reading that only that being up there has the sole right to judge, all the Ulema and Imams are only allowed to advise fellow humans, not based on the incentives of the 72 virgins, but rather on respect for ALL of its creation.

Christianity teaches that only God can judge each and every person, and boy does it bother me with how many Christians in America forget about this/ignore it/disregard it.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

I'm a sane Muslim

Whoa, hold it there. You believe in a magic man in the clouds, you're clearly not sane.

The True One is made of pasta and meatballs, get it right.

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

not based on the incentives of the 72 virgins, but rather on respect for ALL of its creation.

The incentives are appealing, but without the prerequisite of "loli" attached, I assume it's not quite your bread.

[Kyuu]

The Boston Bombers.

I don't see Muslims. I see white kids. So, surprise, surprise. White people can be terrorists too. So, in this case, lay off the Muslims for once.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by aohige

Whoa, hold it there. You believe in a magic man in the clouds, you're clearly not sane.

The True One is made of pasta and meatballs, get it right.

You are still wrong! The true one is a loli who sacrificed not just her life, but her entire existence in exchange for salvation for girls from the ultimate sin of despair, so the human race will not be subjected to the curse of hopelessness from witches!

The incentives are appealing, but without the prerequisite of "loli" attached, I assume it's not quite your bread.

Technically speaking, given the lower allowed age of marriage, girls may lose their virginity as young as 14 if I remember xorrectly aa the legal age.

Therefore all those virgins are lolis.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Well, unfortunate that the bombers were born-again Muslims. That's not going to help matters.

Still, that gives credence to my theory that recent converts are at risks of radicalism more than those born into a religion. For 2 reasons:

1. One might converts to a religion purely to attempt to run away from one's own problems. This is not a good idea as religion doesn't fix anything. The community built around the religion can help those in need, but if you are distressed prayer alone won't cut it.

2. Being a recent convert means you weren't taught which passages of the holy texts to ignore. This is probably not helped by religious leaders who pretend the offending passages don't exist.

Young men wanted answers, thought they found it, then ruined everyone's lives out of desperation. And to think, they attacked America because they were mad at Russians... A logic leap of crazy proportions.

[konart]

Originally Posted by Kyuu

The Boston Bombers.

I don't see Muslims. I see white kids. So, surprise, surprise. White people can be terrorists too. So, in this case, lay off the Muslims for once.

I don't really get it.

Originally Posted by kyp275

They fled into Kyrgyzstan FROM Chechnya, last I heard Russia was quite insistent that Chechnya is part of Russia. In fact, I believe they were so insistent they fought a war over it.

Wars. Wars never stops there, never since 18th century or so. Right now it's stable and pretty safe though, unlike Ingushetia or Dagestan

Well, Djohar Tsarnaev was born in Kyrgyzstan, Tamerlan in Chechnya, right.

That (from russian perspective at least) does mean they are not russians.

Just to calrify (sort of FYI):

English language has one term "Russian" (correct me if I'm wrong here).
Russian language has two separate terms "русский" (nationality) and "россиянин" (resident of Russian Federation).

[Ridwan]

Islam is a threat to civilization, according to internet.

[SaintessHeart]

Radicalism, be it political, racial or religious, is a threat to the human race.

Take Japan and Singapore for example. If they have reduced the age of marriage to that of Brunei's, they wouldn't have suffered dismal birth rates. But nooo, they have to go the way of those radical legal hegemons and "modern civilised society".

You can't have too much of a good thing, to maintain balance, rules must sometimes be tweaked the other way.

[Ridwan]

If you want to progress, be white.

[SaintessHeart]

I don't see white supremacists progressing in culture and understanding. Nor any racial supremacist for that matter.

[Ridwan]

Learn some humor. When I say I believe there's an intrinsic element in Islam that tends its adherers to violence and hatred, it's just as serious as me saying Obama is a communist.