Valvrave the Liberator - Character Discussion - Sashinami Shouko

[Allium]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Haruto closest to L-Elf? Doubtful as they're always butting heads, if anything he would be closer to Shoko as her mindset is more aligned with his now. Hell, he cannot even trust Haruto to handle the mission without him there while he's fine leaving Shoko in charge of the module while he goes on a mission with the entire staff.

You can be close to someone but still disagree with that person. I think Haruto's the closest JIOR person to L-elf as they've been working hand-in-hand to settle things since the first season. In addition, it was L-elf who first proposed the idea that Haruto team up with him to bring a revolution to Dorssia (see episode 3 of the first season).

And L-elf didn't take the 'entire staff' with him. There are still other students/staffmembers (most of them unnamed) on the module who are ready to assist Shouko if she needs it.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

He could have easily left them all there to support Shoko but he didn't as Shoko doesn't need them to succeed while the mission will fail without him if he just sent Haruto and all those members. Thus Shoko is more trustworthy in that he can leave her to manage things alone without her staff or him aiding her.

It's called dividing the task. I myself think Shouko is trustworthy, but to successfully accomplish any plan, one needs to put a certain degree of trust in its participants. That being said, I don't believe that Haruto is untrustworthy, it's just that he's slightly more prone to making mistakes - and being a very important component of L-elf plans, L-elf has to be around him to make sure he won't go astray or something.

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Disagree. My arguments are sound that L-Elf has friends now and that he changed due to his experiences and is much closer to Shoko and Haruto now while before he couldn't give a care at all for them.

L-elf's closer to Shouko and Haruto...so? He's only doing so because they are advantageous to his plans, not because he sees them as friends. If things went real awry I bet he wouldn't hesitate to kill them. I mean, just look at how he treats A-drei, X-eins, H-neun and Q-vier, with whom he has been training with since his childhood days. While on the same team, he'd probably think of them as comrades/allies, but not friends, and most likely the same goes for Shouko and Haruto.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Haruto closest to L-Elf? Doubtful as they're always butting heads, if anything he would be closer to Shoko as her mindset is more aligned with his now. Hell, he cannot even trust Haruto to handle the mission without him there while he's fine leaving Shoko in charge of the module while he goes on a mission with the entire staff.

@ the bolded, that's exactly why they are the closest to being friends. "Real" friends have that type of dynamic, I'm like that with the people that I consider my best friends. Someone who doesn't protest my actions or does so with little resistance, I'd consider more of an acquaintance. Like I said, if L-Elf's even remotely close to making a true friend, Haruto is the closest thing to a real friend he'd have before anyone else.

Also, you make it sound as though Shoko is running the entire module by herself. Dude, as you can see, episode 13 pretty much confirmed that ARUS has begun overseeing ALL their internal affairs. She's simply overseeing ARUS whose overseeing N Jior. Its less impressive than you make it out to be.

Riiight... So that's why he decided to take the entire staff with him? Including those that can't even fight or provide literally nothing of note to the mission? He could have easily left them all there to support Shoko but he didn't as Shoko doesn't need them to succeed while the mission will fail without him if he just sent Haruto and all those members. Thus Shoko is more trustworthy in that he can leave her to manage things alone without her staff or him aiding her.

nothing of note to the mission?...Last time I checked:

1. Otamaya & his friends do the maintenance on the VVVs. Been doing so since cour 1.
2. Satomi is handling communications.
3. Takahi is assisting with piloting.
4. Kibukawa is doing further research on the VVVs.
5. The mob characters are also doing their part. (Maintenance on the VVVs & probably repairs.)
6. Marie being the exception because she volunteered to come along. i.e. She wasn't picked to be part of the mission.

Again, Shoko is in a puppet leader position right now. While she is in-charge, she's basically powerless/has little influence in whatever ARUS decides to do with the module. So its not as impressive as you make it out to be. Also, she's not by herself on the module, she has mob characters & one or two named characters with her there too for support.

Disagree. My arguments are sound that L-Elf has friends now and that he changed due to his experiences and is much closer to Shoko and Haruto now while before he couldn't give a care at all for them.

My argument is sound that L-Elf doesn't have friends yet & I have episode 13 & episode 15 to back that up.

You seem to like the idea that L-Elf has gone through zero character development since he appeared in the series and is still the same cold soldier that he was at the start of the series. I on the other hand have every right to point out that he has gone through much development and his stance towards Shoko and Haruto has changed dramatically.

Apart from crying for Lise in cour 1 & learning that he's inferior to Cain, he hasn't had any significant personality changing character development. His stance hasn NOT changed towards them.

You wouldn't readily kill someone who is important to you with the thought that "I'll find a replacement if you can't do the job."

[Destined_Fate]

It isn't a mere disagreement. It's a constant disagreement, he also has no faith in Haruto completing this mission as leader and without L-Elf himself calling the shots. Haruto has also been very cruel to L-Elf as of late. If he wasn't so important(as you cannot replace Haruto easily) or his first real Friend than L-Elf would have dropped him early. While with Shoko they've grown to see eye to eye more and he trusts her far more while before he didn't trust her even a tiny bit.

Yes, Shoko is practically running it herself. She has the final say on everything and all important matters are dealt with by her. Her staff has all gone on a field trip with L-Elf and Haruto. She has no one reliable to lean on as she runs the country all on her own. Furthermore it shows her strength that even against Political Vets from ARUS she still has maintained the module's independence and hasn't crumbled from being pressured by them. A weaker person would have given up by now, especially when Shoko doesn't even have L-Elf to asgk or advice in private or have him help her managing the power hungry ARUS. If Shoko's father hadn't died and she didn't mature she wouldn't have been able to run the country as she has despite ARUS holding all the cards now that the VVV's are off elsewhere. L-Elf was right in trusting her with such a massive task as that's what L-Elf has for her. Trust. Very few have that from L-Elf.

Calling her a puppet isn't accurate. If she was than ARUS wouldn't even bother going to her with anything and they would be exerting more control. Shoko is strong enough to prevent the Module from becoming ARUS property while she's smart enough to placate them enough so they keep helping as right now the module needs their aid. Especially with the VVV's all off on another mission. Thus if she denied them openly or misspoke than it could spell disaster. L-Elf needs the module for his plans, Shoko is the only one that can ensure that the module remains in their control as they have no one else who can bear with the shame and humiliation the ARUS are pushing upon her which in turn makes her strong for not breaking down or just giving up.

This says a ton on how he views Shoko and Haruto. He needs both, but while Shoko has matured and accepted a new view on things Haruto is as immature as ever and refuses to see anything he doesn't like.

You're joking right? No character development for L-Elf? You know what. Let's just leave it at that. There's nothing to discuses if you cannot pick up on a character's progression and you still believe that they're still the same as they were from Episode 1.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

It isn't a mere disagreement. It's a constant disagreement, he also has no faith in Haruto completing this mission as leader and without L-Elf himself calling the shots. Haruto has also been very cruel to L-Elf as of late. If he wasn't so important(as you cannot replace Haruto easily) or his first real Friend than L-Elf would have dropped him early. While with Shoko they've grown to see eye to eye more and he trusts her far more while before he didn't trust her even a tiny bit.

Where is this "trust" for Shoko that you speak of coming from? You know, I wouldn't make a contract(The revolution of Dorssia) of that scale with someone if I didn't trust them.

Haruto is the closest thing to a friend he has & he still treats him like shit, so why is Shoko so special that she can connect with him at that level?

In your own words: "with Shoko they've grown to see eye to eye more and he trusts her far more while before he didn't trust her even a tiny bit." So why does that not apply to Haruto, as a matter of fact, his trusting of Haruto should, by all means be higher than his trust for anyone else in the cast.

Come on man, open your eyes & see past the shipping!

Yes, Shoko is practically running it herself. She has the final say on everything and all important matters are dealt with by her. Her staff has all gone on a field trip with L-Elf and Haruto. She has no one reliable to lean on as she runs the country all on her own. Furthermore it shows her strength that even against Political Vets from ARUS she still has maintained the module's independence and hasn't crumbled from being pressured by them. A weaker person would have given up by now, especially when Shoko doesn't even have L-Elf to asgk or advice in private or have him help her managing the power hungry ARUS. If Shoko's father hadn't died and she didn't mature she wouldn't have been able to run the country as she has despite ARUS holding all the cards now that the VVV's are off elsewhere. L-Elf was right in trusting her with such a massive task as that's what L-Elf has for her. Trust. Very few have that from L-Elf.

@ the bolded, LOL...Please rewatch episode 13 before making that claim. When they had their meeting with the ARUS officials, it didn't look like she had the final say there.

@ the underlined, the reason why ARUS is giving N Jior all that leeway is one, partially because of the Magius & two because they want N Jior to let their guard down.

ARUS' president knows that there are no VVVs present on the module & is knowingly taking the bait. Afterwards, he made a statement about the Magius' plans. All of that can be seen in episode 15.

She has a strong will, I'll give her that, but she isn't as strong as you make her out to be. ARUS isn't forcing N Jior's hand because they are content with keeping them within a peaceful subjugation. Therefore, she can rest a little easier because ARUS isn't exerting all their authority on them.

Why let them know you are trying taking them over when you can do it in a less obvious manner?

Calling her a puppet isn't accurate. If she was than ARUS wouldn't even bother going to her with anything and they would be exerting more control. Shoko is strong enough to prevent the Module from becoming ARUS property while she's smart enough to placate them enough so they keep helping as right now the module needs their aid. Especially with the VVV's all off on another mission. Thus if she denied them openly or misspoke than it could spell disaster. L-Elf needs the module for his plans, Shoko is the only one that can ensure that the module remains in their control as they have no one else who can bear with the shame and humiliation the ARUS are pushing upon her which in turn makes her strong for not breaking down or just giving up.

Calling her a puppet is accurate, she's being pressured to he point that she has no choice but to go along with whatever ARUS decides/recommends to do. That's why she couldn't do anything in episode 13 but accept all their suggestions. Again, I'm saying that they are under peaceful subjugation. While ARUS isn't outright showing that they are in charge, it is shown in episode 13 & 15 that they are basically running N Jior.

This says a ton on how he views Shoko and Haruto. He needs both, but while Shoko has matured and accepted a new view on things Haruto is as immature as ever and refuses to see anything he doesn't like.

Whatever floats your boat dude. The bias for Shoko is strong with that one. The bolded shows it.

EDIT: Wanna know the answer to the underlined? They are pawns. (ep 17 confirms.)

Also I was right when I said that he can replace Haruto at any moment. L-Elf himself said it this episode. NB: He can easily replace the closest thing to a friend he has, what does that say about Shoko who is further away from him than Haruto. (note: further is being used figuratively[As in, their relationship dynamic] here & not literally. But she is also literally further away from him too...XD)

You're joking right? No character development for L-Elf? You know what. Let's just leave it at that. There's nothing to discuses if you cannot pick up on a character's progression and you still believe that they're still the same as they were from Episode 1.

Please good sir, can you elaborate on how has L-Elf gone through any significant character development from episode 1 to now? To me, he's still the same cold, logical, calculating killer that we saw in the beginning.

Getting backstory & some shipping hints =/= character development.

While backstory is part of character development, it still isn't progress for the character. The reason being; backstory covers the characters' past & not how they currently are. Real character development would take place then the current L-Elf begins to change/evolve as a character.

I'll "leave it at that" when you prove to me that L-Elf has had significant character development & please for the love of all that is good, leave the ship teases out of the retort.

EDIT: Episode 17 just proved me right. L-Elf hasn't changed. Apart from showing power lust this episode, he hasn't had any emotional development. He also referred to everyone as his pawns. That INCLUDES Shoko. So please, keep the shipping to a minimum. Its getting slightly annoying now.

I'm a shipper too, but jeeeezzzzz, you take it overboard.

[Destined_Fate]

Already pointed it out.

He takes everyone with him on the mission, even the non-combative officials that offer nothing to the mission's success. Thus he entrusts the module completely to Shoko as he knows she'll keep its independence even when being bullied by the ARUS whom the module is entirely dependent of at this point and time.

No need for all that. If you aren't gonna take this seriously than don't bother as I wont waste my time.

Cour 1 talk again when concerning Cour 2 character growth? It doesn't take a detective to notice that L-Elf has changed a lot since he first appeared. You merely prove my point that you still strongly believe L-Elf has gone through zero character development and is still the same person as he was when the series started which is entirely incorrect.

Another thing. Lelouch called his allies "Pawns" as well yet clearly he saw them more as such - especially towards Kallen and Suzaku. Thus L-Elf's statement is just him being full of himself and not his true thoughts which was the case with Lelouch as well.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Already pointed it out.

He takes everyone with him on the mission, even the non-combative officials that offer nothing to the mission's success. Thus he entrusts the module completely to Shoko as he knows she'll keep its independence even when being bullied by the ARUS whom the module is entirely dependent of at this point and time.

v_v You aren't taking this seriously are you? I'm done with you after this post. I will not respond to your next reply.

Its not that he entrusted the module to Shoko. Shes the PM, its her duty to stay back. As it is now, it doesn't matter whether shes PM or not, ARUS is handling all internal affairs. Basically every government official in N Jior is powerless at this point, all they could do is save face by pretending they have a say in the decision making process to the non-government students. Why won't you admit that? I've spelt it out for you so many times.

No need for all that. If you aren't gonna take this seriously than don't bother as I wont waste my time.

I'm taking this very seriously , the content of my posts justify that. You're making me feel like I'm wasting my time. I feel silly for responding so logically, just to get half@$$ed retorts based on speculation & ship teases.

Cour 1 talk again when concerning Cour 2 character growth? It doesn't take a detective to notice that L-Elf has changed a lot since he first appeared. You merely prove my point that you still strongly believe L-Elf has gone through zero character development and is still the same person as he was when the series started which is entirely incorrect.

HE IS BASICALLY THE SAME! You're in denial, he was willing to kill his contractee with no hesitation, he shot Marie, even though she's an ally & he has everyone labeled as pawns. (i.e. Everyone is expendable)

Come on, really? You know what really makes me LOL? You say "L-Elf has changed a lot since he first appeared." Can you please elaborate as to how did he change a lot?

All I can see & actually call character development is his display of lust for power & his envy of the VVV pilots in episode 17. I can also more or less consider his feelings toward Lise as part of his emotional drive & thus does qualify as development. Other than that, nothing worthy of note was shown.

Another thing. Lelouch called his allies "Pawns" as well yet clearly he saw them more as such - especially towards Kallen and Suzaku. Thus L-Elf's statement is just him being full of himself and not his true thoughts which was the case with Lelouch as well.

Lelouch's statement contradicted his actions. While he did say that everyone was pawns, he was clearly in denial. This was proven with Kallen, Suzaku, Rolo & the Black Knights. He considered them all pawns at one point & yet, he genuinely cared about them. This was also reflected in the series finale. (I won't say anymore because that would spoil the show for those who haven't seen it. But I'm sure you get what I mean.)

L-Elf's words have not contradicted his actions. Everything he has done thus far, proves that he does mean exactly what he says when he calls them pawns.

Using Haruto as a meat shield on many occasions, convincing Marie to pilot, baiting Satomi to use the VVV, willing to replace Haruto. Those are just a few examples, but you get my drift. Its foolish to refute facts, so just bow out gracefully.

Like I said in the beginning of this post, I will not respond to your retort. I already consider this my win. Still, feel free to retort anyway. I wanna see how desperate those counterpoints will look.

[Irenesharda]

^Also, there's the fact that Lelouch never had the upbringing that L-elf did and thus still had a human caring side that came out more and more as the show went on. L-elf has shown now, more than ever, that he thinks of the students as pawns and chess-pieces and treats them as such. He is willing to replace Haruto with Satomi the moment the boy's cowardice became too much to handle. He is willing to trick and manipulate a bunch of students into becoming immortal space vampires, because it's the most practical thing to do in have a revolving set of pilots. He manipulated several pilots away from base, just so that this can occur. When he says they are pawns to him, he means it, and after staying with them for months, he still means it.

[Winterson]

Shoko, L- Elf and the ARUS had thought of fooling Dorssia by making t appear that a functional Valvrave that is actually fake, but I hope not resides in M77, but the magius had taken insidious commission which is of course unknown to them—incorporating humans for runes consumption. ARUS president sure knows the existence of the magius council, but Shoko?! What can she possibly do at this point without L-Elf’s brilliant plans and military tactics and the Valvraves though they have built-in canons and weaponry provided in the module? I don’t want to speculate of what will possibly happen to her and the rest from Sakimori high. Cain, X-Eins and H-Neun just bother me. Phew! I just hope that Kriem really came to rescue to H-Neun since I believed that one of his earring is a sort of a transmitter.

[Triple_R]

I agree with mangakid95 on L-Elf.

I was starting to think that L-Elf was softening due to how he went along with Satomi's plea to save Akira a few episodes ago, but L-Elf's actions since then make it clear that he's as ruthless and goal-focused as ever.

What I think has changed is that L-Elf has learned the importance of morale management when it comes to the Jiorians (whereas Dorssian soldiers will do/sacrifice just about anything in the service of their country). So L-Elf gave in to Satomi's plea since the alternative was risking a full-blown mutiny headed by Satomi, Takahi, and their entourage. L-Elf's decision had nothing to do with actual sympathy for Satomi, Akira, or even Haruto.


Now, there is something here that I think L-Elf/Shouko shippers can hang their hats on - I think that L-Elf is impressed with Shouko's ability to manage her Jiorian peers. Managing these people is probably like herding cats from L-Elf's perspective, so Shouko doing it so easily/effectively makes her a very valuable asset to L-Elf, I think. Not totally indispensable (because nobody is that to L-Elf, except Lieselotte), but still one of the last pieces he'd want to sacrifice.

There's enough here to make a future L-Elf/Shouko romance possible, but only once L-Elf's mission is accomplished or is failed beyond any chance of repair (i.e. Liselotte dies). As long as that mission is still in play, it retains L-Elf's steely focus. He is very much a "the ends justify the means" character, as we see with him shooting Marie straight through the head in an obvious attempt to kill her.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I agree with mangakid95 on L-Elf.

I was starting to think that L-Elf was softening due to how he went along with Satomi's plea to save Akira a few episodes ago, but L-Elf's actions since then make it clear that he's as ruthless and goal-focused as ever.

What I think has changed is that L-Elf has learned the importance of morale management when it comes to the Jiorians (whereas Dorssian soldiers will do/sacrifice just about anything in the service of their country). So L-Elf gave in to Satomi's plea since the alternative was risking a full-blown mutiny headed by Satomi, Takahi, and their entourage. L-Elf's decision had nothing to do with actual sympathy for Satomi, Akira, or even Haruto.

Thank You! Someone who understands that L-Elf is/has not begun changing yet.

Yes, for the sake of convenience, L-Elf simply bowed to their wishes because it'd create a rift in the team if he didn't save Akira & Haruto. Had he not done that, people would begin questioning how much they can trust him & may even rebel/protest as a result.

Now, there is something here that I think L-Elf/Shouko shippers can hang their hats on - I think that L-Elf is impressed with Shouko's ability to manage her Jiorian peers. Managing these people is probably like herding cats from L-Elf's perspective, so Shouko doing it so easily/effectively makes her a very valuable asset to L-Elf, I think. Not totally indispensable (because nobody is that to L-Elf, except Lieselotte), but still one of the last pieces he'd want to sacrifice.

There's enough here to make a future L-Elf/Shouko romance possible, but only once L-Elf's mission is accomplished or is failed beyond any chance of repair (i.e. Liselotte dies). As long as that mission is still in play, it retains L-Elf's steely focus. He is very much a "the ends justify the means" character, as we see with him shooting Marie straight through the head in an obvious attempt to kill her.

I acknowledge that he's inpressed with Shoko's charisma. I also notice that is something that he doesn't have.

But Fate is over-exaggerating that in favor of making the ship's possibility higher. She can keep the students in check & apply good leadership tactics, but I'm contesting the statement that she can run the place by herself.

As it stands, she is being pressured into submitting to ARUS' decisions & is merely getting by because ARUS is knowingly taking their bait(the fake VVV) & simply allowing them to think they still have a trump card.

I'm also contesting the statement that L-Elf "has far more trust in her than anyone else".
L-Elf has been with his team since he was a child & it looks to me that he hadn't any trust in them at all. So how can he now trust someone who he only knows for about 2-3 months?

Just clearing up my reasons for the Shoko arguments. I'm not a Shoko hater, she's my fave female character in the cast & I'm also an L-Elf/Shoko shipper. I just don't like seeing BS reasoning just to make the ship look good.

[KleenexGhost]

I agree they can get something started. All they have to do is develop L-Elf properly, develop the relationship in a romantic fashion and, last but not least, find some way to take Haruto out of the equation.

If he does indeed go darker and become a person Shoko can't love, then they can't have L-Elf be the same type of guy as Haruto. You would kinda have to get Haruto and L-Elf pull 180's in a sense.

That's just me and my two cents. If Haruto becomes some kind of "by any means necessary" anti-hero that Shoko wants nothing to do with only to have her fall for L-Elf who acts the same way, it would kinda make her look like a hypocrite. You want nothing to do with one guy, but fall for another guy who acts the same way? I wouldn't buy that.

[DevilHighDxD]

^Shoko doesn't know that L-elf is that kind of "by any means necessary" person but she know very well that Haruto isn't. So I think it justifiable if this does happened.

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

^Shoko doesn't know that L-elf is that kind of "by any means necessary" person but she know very well that Haruto isn't. So I think it justifiable if this does happened.

Then that would make her look criminally oblivious.

Sometimes women stand by the men they love because they feel as though even when they go incredibly dark they'll still stick by them because they feel there is some light still there.

Example: Kiritsugu and Irisviel

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

Then that would make her look criminally oblivious.

Sometimes women stand by the men they love because they feel as though even when they go incredibly dark they'll still stick by them because they feel there is some light still there.

Example: Kiritsugu and Irisviel

Honesty, I think Haruto and Saki fit that due to the amounts of closeness and secrets they shared. Shoko is restrain due to her status as the prime minister of a country, I don't think she will and have the will to abandoned it just for one person(also thanks to her father). But who know, maybe Shoko will still follow Haruto even if he done something that shocked even L-elf.

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

Honesty, I think Haruto and Saki fit that due to the amounts of closeness and secrets they shared. Shoko is restrain due to her status as the prime minister of a country, I don't think she will and have the will to abandoned it just for one person(also thanks to her father). But who know, maybe Shoko will still follow Haruto even if he done something that shocked even L-elf.

It would be nice if they actually showed some legit concern. I was expecting Haruto to be gung-ho to try and get Saki back, but that's not a priority of his at the moment. I would actually like to see them interact in a manner that doesn't involve Saki offering her body and Haruto feeling guilty. She did reject his proposal, so it's a chance to start anew.

And I don't know. What could Haruto possibly do to shock even L-Elf? If Lise turns out to be evil and Haruto kills her then maybe that.

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

And I don't know. What could Haruto possibly do to shock even L-Elf? If Lise turns out to be evil and Haruto kills her then maybe that.

L-elf can killed a thousands and not batting a eye, I'll say probably Haruto killed hundreds of million or even billion of people like some disposable garbage and also not batting a eye or shown any emotion about it. Probably he harakiri-bladed half of the Earth or entire Dorissa (maybe JIOR too) and horrified Shoko. Yeah, probably something like that will make even L-elf questioned Haruto and not vise versa.

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

L-elf can killed a thousands and not batting a eye, I'll say probably Haruto killed hundreds of million or even billion of people like some disposable garbage and also not batting a eye or shown any emotion about it. Probably he harakiri-bladed half of the Earth or entire Dorissa (maybe JIOR too) and horrified Shoko. Yeah, probably something like that will make even L-elf questioned Haruto and not vise versa.

L-Elf would probably be more upset about the fact that Haruto broke his record

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

L-Elf would probably be more upset about the fact that Haruto broke his record

Well anyway the moment Shoko start hating Haruto is the moment he'll enter my top favorite 3, the 3rd place is reserved for him (1st is Saki obvious and 2nd L-elf). I'm hoping his Shu-after Hare's death and Lulu toward the finale of R2 moment will fast arrive. Especially now in a promo image, Haruto is making a face similar to L-elf(You can check it out in the image thread). So yeah, Shoko go hate Haruto, the more you hate him is equal how much I'll like him. So let the hating start!~

[KleenexGhost]

If I had to make a top 5 it would be

1. Cain (Due to how awesome he is)
2. Haruto (Primarily due to underdog status)
3. Kyuuma (Found him easy to relate to. Please give him something to do soon )
4. Shoko (Really likable. Reminds me a lot of Madoka from Lagrange)
5. Saki (Find her interesting. Please develop her more as a character and not just as the Veronica to Shoko's Betty)

And of course, Akira-chan!

Satomi too, he isn't that bad. A-Drei too.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

Well anyway the moment Shoko start hating Haruto is the moment he'll enter my top favorite 3, the 3rd place is reserved for him (1st is Saki obvious and 2nd L-elf). I'm hoping his Shu-after Hare's death and Lulu toward the finale of R2 moment will fast arrive. Especially now in a promo image, Haruto is making a face similar to L-elf(You can check it out in the image thread). So yeah, Shoko go hate Haruto, the more you hate him is equal how much I'll like him. So let the hating start!~

Well, what if she just hated him because he kept the truth from her, and he goes into another mopey depression. Would you like him then?