Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[MarthX]

I think of the blue truth as something that's accepted as the truth unless the red proves it wrong.

If Battler says something in blue and it isn't countered with red then it's accepted as the truth, whether it's right or wrong.

Giving Battler blue makes Beatrice unable to refuse using the red.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Marion

Blue text is used for theories. However the condition is that anything in blue has to be countered in red that can destroy the theory. If Beato can't do this then she loses. Have some hypothetical examples.

There are exactly 10 master keys.

There are no more than 5 master keys.

Because the red affirms that 5 is the limit then the blue is destroyed.

Opposite example:

The six people in the shed from EP 1 were not the people we know them to be but actually body doubles. This is supported by the fact that four faces were shredded and therefore we could not see them.

If there is no red to counter this then the blue wins.

I think Beatrice has just given Battler the tools for her own defeat, before HE had to prove her wrong to win, now SHE has to prove him wrong for her to Not lose. Big change in the rules from the previous 3 games.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by Marion

Spoiler for New Seiyuu:

Juuza (Yusa Koji): *__*. I think see why Natsuki Hyuga was raving about Koji being the VA - Juuza sounds incredibly smooth talking and cool.

Seeing the reactions here, I guess my pimping actually works?

As far as I will comment without fangirling, I never guess that "hyaha" works without hyperness. AndIlikeitcauseit'sYusa'ssexylaugh *shot* I want to complain "Too little lines for Amakusa! :/" but beggars can't be choosers anyway -shrugs- Since the same goes for Minori who gets not more than 10 lines I think. Other than that, happy that he uses the similar pitch that I thought good for Amakusa~ albeit less hyper 8D

On the episode itself, I only dislike the portion on 1998 I guess-some cuts is really abrupt. I mean...

Spoiler for Episode 19:

The part on Ange jump in this episode (the one after Okonogi encourages her to go) is totally... Umm. Yeah. So very abrupt.

But still, I really love the Rosa-Maria (and Sakutarou ) scene. asdfghjkl; Maria, so CUUUTE~

One question though that I didn't remember-did Ange ever reply with "冗談は髪型だけにして。。。" in the VN? Cause I sniggered on that part.

[Vega Lyra]

Rosa and Maria in the cafe...I was stunned by how nice Rosa was.

[MeoTwister5]

While I might be preempting this but... no, the first scene does not mean Ange is on the game board actively. This only means that she also has the ability to observe the game like MetaBattler can.

The Bad:

1. What's with serious business Ange look? For the entire episode she looks like she's trying to shit a brick. She's supposed to have those fond reminiscing with hints of happiness faces in some of the present-day parts, specifically when reading Maria's diary. Apparently reading her diary is stressful?

2. Pacing went crazy near the half. While I enjoyed the cuts since they removed a lot of the snore factors that plagued Ep4, the abrupt transitions between 1986, 1998 and the metaworld is a bit jarring.

The Good:

1. Lol@Beelzebub. Have to wonder why they bothered keeping that in.

2. Excellent cuts were made. Yes you heard it, since the cuts are more of a necessity than in previous arcs. Some of cut material just bored me to death in parts of the VN so thank God they removed them. Also, Maria is hella adorable in that outfit.

3. Fantastic ending to the episode. Fantastic Kinzo psycho look. He was all but absent in previous arcs but now it looks like thing's are getting on earlier than expected.

[Knight_SV]

so everything outcome from each twilight is also affect the outside world right???

[Ithekro]

All we can see if what happened after the Third Arc, as we have Eva as a survivor and Ange to tell us what she thinks she knows. Aside from that...I don't think we know how the Twilights effect anything outside the island.

[frostieyes]

I gave this ep a 8/10.

Spoiler for review:

As I found the beginning parts of EP4 quite boring, I welcomed the fast pace. The character art was comparatively nice as well. The seiyuus were also good, including Juuza's and especially Kyrie's, although Okonogi's voice resembled Krauss's too much.

For anime only viewers, though, I think this episode would have been quite confusing. The transitions between past and future, meta and real didn't go too smoothly; the quickly changing scenes didn't help in empathizing with the characters. But the latter almost never happened, so... oh well.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by golthin

I think Beatrice has just given Battler the tools for her own defeat, before HE had to prove her wrong to win, now SHE has to prove him wrong for her to Not lose. Big change in the rules from the previous 3 games.

I dunno if the anime said it but this came with a price.

Before this, Battler could only lose if he accepted witches, which means even in a situation like Episode2 where he didn't understand a thing, he could still manage to avoid a loss by stubbornly denying witches.

With the introduction of blue it was stated that in case Battler doesn't manage to explain ALL the mysteries he loses:

Originally Posted by Beatrice

Then allow me to impose the same rule on you. At the time the game ends, the human side will be given one minute to counter the mysteries it has been given. If there is even a single mystery that has not been countered within that time, it becomes the witch's victory, and that game is over.

So now Beatrice isn't going to state any red truth, i.e. isn't going to give any hint about the game. Then in the end she counters Battler's blue truths in a way he probably won't predict. At that point Battler will have only one minute to think about another strategy.

Frankly I don't think it was a nice trade off. This is the result of Ange's trying to rush things to reach a fast conclusion. Except Battler doesn't even know the rules of the game, and if the game is bound the end soon he's pretty much fucked up.

[KanonTheFurniture]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Although, I did miss this:

Spoiler:

Haha, I wanted to see that scene animated (and voiced by Ohara) so bad. But I didn't expect it to be, so it's not a huge loss. It just would have been fun. :P

So let's see, here...

Spoiler for speedreview:

-OH MY GOD THEY KEPT THE AIRPORT SCENE. It was a shame to lose it in EP1, but I was really hoping we'd get to keep that scene here since as far as I'm concerned it's Ange's introduction to the gameboard proper. Good to see this wasn't chopped, I think it worked out wonderfully.

-Lol at CatBern

-I didn't expect the OP to be changed at all (EP2's OP was identical to EP1 aside from a portrait swap afterall), though I expected them to use Beato's EP1 portrait since that was the portrait in the game, too (would have been cool for an Ange portrait but I didn't expect it and it would create some strange time paradoxes for 1998 Ange to be in 1986 anyways). I think the new character added and Maria's costume change were pretty neat, though I was disappointed not to see someone standing next to Ronove in his shot. I think cycling through the portraits looked pretty cool, too; I expected just the EP1 portrait.

-They kept the croissant scene...I would have rather had Beato's grand entrance, but it was pretty cool they kept this in.

-Really liking Ange's voice so far. Suits her perfectly.

-Loved the Rosa/Maria birthday scene. Seeing Rosa being so nice here just further spurns my hatred of her...main highlight of these flashbacks to me overall, though, is seeing the characters in different outfits than their family conference ones. This was something I was looking forward to seeing in EP4, hoping they wouldn't just use the same costumes in all the flashbacks like the VN does (I can't blame Ryukishi for not wanting to draw new flashback outfits, I'm just saying I was excited at the idea of seeing the Anime do so since it seems silly that they'd wear those outfits day to day). Maria looks adorable. I want to see how many Anime-only viewers who have hated her so far have a change of heart in this EP.

-Sakutaroooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *squeal*

-I don't have any complaints about the phonecall scene. In the end Rosa still comes off just as despicable as she did in the VN, mystery factor or not. Though I find it interesting that the guy she's with looks a lot like Rudolf...noooot my idea of wincest, though ^^;

-Sakutaro's voice is perfect, though it is a bit strange seeing him move around on his own...I know Umineko is chock-full of magic scenes where we're supposed to imagine this stuff isn't actually happening, but in the VN just seeing his stuffed animal form and getting the narration made me envision Maria making him move and talk the way kids do with their stuffed animals, even if she imagined him doing it on his own for real. Not a complaint really, it just looks strange to me.

-Maria's diary doesn't look as beat up as it should. Like the cover design, though.

-The bitches at St. Lucia Academy are just as ruthless as ever.

-Ohgod Okonogi sounds like Krauss.

-"Without love, it cannot be seen" - arc words, great to hear them

-Ange's escape scene lacked all the awesomeness/suspense of the VN. The jump seemed to come out of nowhere.

-Anime Amakusa + voice = hot

-Kyrie's 'Kinzo is Dead' theory is perfect. Kyrie's intelligence really got the shaft in EP1 and 2 of the Anime, so it's nice that EP3 and 4 are making up for it.

-BRAAAAAAAAAAVO!! sounded paafekuto.

-Blue text explanation is lacking. Seems like more of an advantage than it really is. Looks cool, though, and has the VN sound like the red.

-I kinda feel like the episode should have ended with Krauss going to get Kinzo, saving the following scenes for the next episode. This is the main reason I feel the pacing seems rushed, and they could have extended everything else ever so slightly without this.

-Psycho!Kinzo is, however, AWESOME. Huge props to his VA. And I have to admit going into the ED song after this scene makes it feel more impactful to me (ordinarily I hate that song because the singer's voice is just so gawdawful).

-DAME DA, ZEN ZEN DAME DA, I'm rating the episode +1 point just for this

In general I agree with what USCPharmacist said on the first page; DEEN is making an adaptation and they had the perfect opportunity to make the timeline craziness much less confusing in the Anime, so I'm a bit perplexed as to why they didn't. I was very confused by the entire first half of EP4 because I wasn't playing it all in one sitting and when I'd come back to it I'd find myself wondering just where and when the particular scene was taking place, so it would have been nice if they'd put stuff in a better order here...but as far as the material itself goes, I think they did a great job and chose the best things to cut to remove the snorefest of early EP4. I think the pacing was only slightly fast, but if the flashback scenes were put in a better order or the transitions were cleaner, it would have worked.

Besides a few nitpicks and some pacing issues, I think it was perfect. I'm really looking forward to great things for EP4 and I hope my expectations aren't betrayed - but based on EP3, I don't think they will. 9/10.

[June 1983]

I also thought they might separate the flashbacks for this episode, but I think part of the reason they haven't is because a lot of the flashbacks, especially later on, are dramatically resonant with events on the island. They underscore and echo each other.

Or, it could also just be because they are lazy.

[Miraluka]

I enjoyed this episode(rushed and all) btw I give to it 6/10 + 4/10 for Ange existence.

Sigh... looks like some bitches bullies needs to be punished.

[Beatoriche]

Am I the only one who thought of Professor McGonagall (Harry Potter) when I saw Cat!Bern?

[ZGMF-X10A]

In the Opening, beato is in the portrait again. I also noticed Maria having a staff.


Could this time around Maria becomes the new Beatrice?
if not than she's has to be some kind of witch.

[TeeHee]

Originally Posted by frostieyes

I gave this ep a 8/10.

Spoiler for review:

As I found the beginning parts of EP4 quite boring, I welcomed the fast pace. The character art was comparatively nice as well. The seiyuus were also good, including Juuza's and especially Kyrie's, although Okonogi's voice resembled Krauss's too much.

For anime only viewers, though, I think this episode would have been quite confusing. The transitions between past and future, meta and real didn't go too smoothly; the quickly changing scenes didn't help in empathizing with the characters. But the latter almost never happened, so... oh well.

I agree about the flashbacks. When I first read the VN Ep4, I said, "Ugh, not another flashback!! This will be a loooong read."

This episode had my full attention from start to end. Excellent adaptive direction. I'll give it 9/10.

[Kite22]

The hate for the flashbacks I'm seeing here is really disappointing, those were my favorite parts of the Episode and apart from the ending, were also probably some of the most important parts of the Episode.

[Xander]

Originally Posted by Kite22

The hate for the flashbacks I'm seeing here is really disappointing, those were my favorite parts of the Episode and apart from the ending, were also probably some of the most important parts of the Episode.

You're certainly not the only one with those thoughts. I was hoping they'd try to present everything in a more linear manner, which could have allowed them to portray those scenes more accurately and eliminating the need to jump from one situation to another so frequently, but we'll just have to accept it. Still, I managed to like the episode.

[SilverSyko]

I find it unbelieveable Battler is unable to figure out that "Gretel" is an older version of his sister. Score one for her on Battler's hairstyle too, the spiked look is so cliche.~

I can understand why Ange acts the way she does now, I mean you'd grow up to be a pretty angry person too if you were raised by an aunt that hates you with every fiber of her being, the bullying at school didn't help much either.

That living Sakutarou plushie of Maria's and her mysterious appearance before Ange ws rather odd, but due to the OP I can pretty much figure out a plausible reason for why that is.

Amakusa has fangirl magnet written all over him, here's hoping he's only a side-character. Dx

Would someone mind clarifying the rules behind the blue text Battler is now able to use? The anime didn't really explain it in a comprehensible way for me. =/

Lastly, love the nods to Higurashi. Saint Lucia Academy and Okonogi.~

This is looking like the most interesting arc to me so far, anxious for ep 20.~

[TsundereCake]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Lastly, love the nods to Higurashi. Saint Lucia Academy and Okonogi.~

Was Saint Lucia the name of Shion's school?

[Tjfarmer]

Yes, Saint Lucia was the boarding school Shion was in. Its the home of unwanted and unloved children.