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View Poll Results: Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 791 | 63.74% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 163 | 13.13% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 95 | 7.66% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 67 | 5.40% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 17 | 1.37% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 18 | 1.45% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 7 | 0.56% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 7 | 0.56% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 4 | 0.32% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 72 | 5.80% | |
Voters: 1241. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-02-25, 09:38 | Link #5061 | ||||||||||||||
No Eyes
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dirac Sea
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Further, as was brought up, the Mutuality short story goes well on its way to even contradicting the idea that he chaged during the skip. He was supposedly still trying to talk Lelouch out of it and was being his best friend. There is a bit of an even bigger jump if we take that as canon because you end up going from: enemies -> friends -> vindictive assholes with a grude towards one another. I can understand: enemies -> time skip -> vindictive assholes with a grudge towards one another. I can't understand the former all that well, however. Did Lelouch get pissy that Suzaku was trying to stop him... and then Suzaku got pissy at Lelouch getting pissy? Quote:
The only shown opposition to his rise is Bismark. Schneizel does not have to explain how Charles has died, he can simply make note that he has been informed of the matter and that he, as the most capable (and likely supported by the eldest brother) would take command during the investigation. A man as politically suave as Schneizel would not simply depose his father in the face of everyone. The other KoR seem to have been split (with Gino being a complete daliance with pointlessness) following eithe Schneizel or Bismark. But seeing as how quickly Suzaku disposed of them, I doubt anyone other than Bismark would have been even a remote problem. Not to mention the complete absurdity of everyone forgetting Schneizel's little coup at around Turn 20. It came up and then was completely forgotten as if it had not happened. It was something, rather clearly, just introduced as a plot detour to get it moving on that aspect. But the entire scene plays out as "Oh no how terrible" to two episodes later, "Oh schneizel our savior who tried to coup and do the same thing Lelouch did will save us from Lelouch." I've heard of fighting fire with fire, but this fighting a fire by burning down everything that can burn in the vicinity. Quote:
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... Gundam Wing, such a hilarious ending. Quote:
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Not to mention just how many people evidentally did not understand the ending at all. *Points at the Kallen thread and the quote in there.* Quote:
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2009-02-25, 10:51 | Link #5062 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
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He only reformed the world's largest empire then did an about turn, enslaving its soldiers and citizens to his will through the use of mind control and terror respectively, almost needlessly executed every single person he once knew, sans Ashforders, just so he could stage his equally needless grandiose theatrical display of a demise, and then broke the world over his knees, leaving everyone else to slowly pick up the pieces, when he could have suddenly not become an idiot, not have spat all over Euphemia's ideals and twisted her character into something totally unrecognizable, dealt with Schneizel without flipping out, and when he could have, by himself, and without having to kill himself and also become the world's most murderous and hated tyrant because he wanted to, led the world into a new age of prosperity.
But, hey, plot-induced stupidity, yes? |
2009-02-25, 11:11 | Link #5063 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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the final battle is basiclly lelouch vs shnizel with the OOBK becoming shnizel's army
the problem with this script is that lelouch's actions made it completely possible for shnizel to be REMOVED ENTRIELY from the equation and it would still be a battle its not as if the OOBK and the UFN are opposing lelouch BECOUSE they are on shnizels side they are opposing him becouse LELOUCH declared a war against them (declared isnt quite the right word, since he struck first before saying anything) and becouse they are fighting a DEFENSIVE WAR against him after HE attacked them and took their leaders hostage (during a peace summit) they end up fighting on the same side as shnizel if shnizel chose to just sit back and then wipe out who ever is left, the battle at the end would have still happened all the same which is why ZERO-R made no sense from the "he has to stop shnizel' angle
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2009-02-25, 12:14 | Link #5066 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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good point
i should also point out that if lelouch REALLY wanted to join the UFN he could have the entire OOBK leadership step down from their positoins as the leaders of the UFN army all he had to do was point out that since every country joining the UFN must surrender its army to be part of the OOBK and the OOBK was formed for the purpose of fighting against britannia which means that its corrent leadership is made up soley of britannia's enemies its not possible to ask him to turn over his army to their control he can then demand that the OOBK be disbanded in its corrent form and re-created in a way that better represents the NEW UFN (which britannia is now part of) and its leadership be made up of other more balanced people from both sides (stating out right that every corrent memeber of the OOBK leadership, should be ruled out) given that he is basiclly offering to make his army part of this NEW OOBK any member of the corrent OOBK leadership who tries to protest would look like they are letting their ego get in the way of world peace
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2009-02-25, 12:21 | Link #5067 |
differently sober
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italy
Age: 41
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let's try to be quick..
@Frost: (I'll answer better about Suzaku and Lelouch once I'll got a chance to re-read the Mutuality piece you're talking about, but, on the 'final boss thing'...) To me, the ending of Code Geass was all Lelouch VS Lelouch, or better ... "will Lelouch succeed in getting what he wants or will he succumb under the pressure of his weaknesses?" And putting him against his most precious thing - his beloved Nunnaly - in the end fits well in this reading. Schneizel's plan was a plot device used to cause a bit of action and add the spice to the last battle, but it was Lelouch's ideals VS Lelouch's mask (and physicall persona, yes) and I still find the paradox of this - despite all the absurd stuff flying around the last arc and the rushed execution - brilliant *_* *thunder*... be carefull, young man...One day, you'll fall for you own game, this is the fate of those who play too fondly...*_* *thunder* =P @yvj & Charred_knight: What if the hardcore noble nazis are all dead on Lelouch's order? I think it's slightly implied he killed off the followers of his father when Jeremiah came back reporting he took care of.. ahahrgscrewhisNameSomeRebelBrittNobleman. The conservative fringe lead by Bismark in the army has been annhilated by Suzaku. Also, the capital city was blown out by Schneizel and the court with it, and people would be probably too tired of violence to really want to start a civil war against Nunnaly in order to restore the old system. Britannia is ready for a fresh start, and we can't know - for the moment - if Nunnally would stay as a ruler or is turning her country into a democracy - unless it's stated somewhere in side materials I'm oblivious of... What doesn't work is more what blade said: Britannia has been shown as a nation of asses all though the series, and then a loli dressed in pink came and the UNF accepted them. Okay, I'll believe this because I love my Disney movie, but the writer could have put a little more effort in portraying Britannia less mislead if this is the ending they've planned from the vey start. ^^; And I can see Lelouch fighting between the desire of living and the resolution of dying, I was just saying that I find coherent that Lelouch - Lelouch of the Rebellion - did not take the path of the supreme ruler on a long run. It's one of the aspects of ZeroRequiem I find less pointless.... |
2009-02-25, 13:04 | Link #5068 |
U Mad?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brooklyn NY
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Good points all around.
In hindsight ZR seems more and more pointless and illogical which makes it quite a stab at Lelouch's character. That said the end result looks less sacrificial and more cop out-ish. What would have been funny was if Schneizel revealed that he would set up Damocles in a way where he could set it and then kill himself. Then it would have been a race too see who could kill themselves for humanity first.
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2009-02-25, 13:27 | Link #5069 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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Schneizel himself probably suffered the greatest character derailment in the show
he spends the entire show being billed as the only guy smarter then lelouch at his own game (ep 19 totally sells him as a great final villain) and in the end he turns into a poor rip off of that dillando guy from GSD the nuke spamming doom fortress alone is OOC for a guy who spends the entire show with a great understanding of people's hearts and a great touch for diplomacy (its just NOT RIGHT) but the fact that he forgoes using it in the final battle is beyond dumb he has an army about the same size of lelouch's at his command and this army asked that he doesnt use his doom fort to nuke lelouch for fear of killing their leaders who are on board lelouch's flagship (a fact lelouch freaking TOLD HIM) why on earth would he not simply say "how about i nuke the flanks of lelouch's army and take out most of his army that way and THEN send the OOBK to take over the avalon" its in line with why the OOBK dont want him to nuke lelouch (it doesnt kill their leaders) and it makes it impossible for him to lose the battle (he would have a much larger force that contains all the aces, except suzaku) why did he instead opt to use CONVENTIONAL startegy against lelouch who has NEVER EVER EVEN ONCE had a battle in which he DIDNT use some crazy unconventional trick (not once during the entire show) then there is the fact that he is holding nunnaly HOSTAGE (pretty much) why isnt that point actually used in his plan ? (he knows lelouch better then to believe lelouch doesnt care about nunnaly) and the final part about the way lelouch actually geass him is just beyond dumb as hell (so much has been said about this point that i dont even need to say anything)
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2009-02-25, 13:52 | Link #5070 | |
U Mad?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brooklyn NY
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2009-02-25, 14:09 | Link #5074 |
Banned
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Good point let's bash Geass some more, yeah good point. You know what, I give up. You people are hopeless. If rehashing this stuff over and over again is truly how you want to spend your time, if you truly have this little appreciation for the show, you've already ruined this subforum and the show. HAVE IT!
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2009-02-25, 14:14 | Link #5075 | |
U Mad?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brooklyn NY
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CG is a roller coaster extremely high points with just as many low points. I'm pretty sure the good points have had their fair time to be discussed.
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2009-02-25, 14:18 | Link #5076 |
Banned
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It's all you do though. Literally it's ALL YOU DO. I see like no point to it whatsoever. Crappy writing is just a cliche now. It's become the ultimate cliche. I'm so sick and tired of hearing a whole bunch of non-writers going on about bad writing when they can't even begin to understand the basics of writing. Just because you don't like something does not automatically make it cliched ass bad writing. Learn this already.
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2009-02-25, 14:23 | Link #5078 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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the show had high points and low points
its just that the ending arc was the point where the whole thing just took a nose-dive fo no explainable reason other then the writers saying "lets go with the original plan for the ending" without taking into consideration that the NEW story renders the OLD ENDING oddly out of place this could have been done better in many ways but the pacing of the last arc doesnt allow for that so instead you have several different concepts being introduced (ZERO-R, shnizels plan, half the cast coming back to life, suzaku's LEEV mode, etc) without being properly being explained cut half of those ideas out and you have enough time to have a proper ending for the show as it stands it just makes the ending arc ruin what was up to that point a rather good show (IMOH) @Kayoshin what makes you think we dont understand good writing ? just about everyone in this forum has probably seen tens of animes we can tell which ones are poorly written and which are well written
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2009-02-25, 14:24 | Link #5079 | ||
Banned
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And you can tell which ones you THINK are poorly written, not which ones are poorly written. I'm sorry, you are not the word of god. |
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2009-02-25, 14:32 | Link #5080 |
differently sober
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italy
Age: 41
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@Kaioshin: Maybe we have just a lot of time to waste.
And no, you must have overlooked a very huge bunch of discussions in which we deal also with what we liked and find cool in the show. I can become very narcissitic and point at you my post of this afternoon in wich I said that pushing Lelouch against himself in the end was brilliant, but that's just the first example that popped into my mind, there are alot of positive posts... Any of this is gonna change the overall value of the show in any case - Code has both awesome and not-so-awesome parts. We still love to talk about this and I don't see how this can be a bad or childish thing, expecially in a place that should serve for discussion. |
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