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Link #141 | |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
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As for the redemption thing I mentioned, I didn't really mean to suggest happiness in slavery if that's the problem, rather just a desire to not go back to who and what they were before. And frankly, I don't think it'd work or be at all satisfactory unless at least one of the people involved had a breakdown, rejecting the whole thing. Flare could scream and fight over different sides that want to take vengeance on Keyaru for the months/years of slavery and to continue to separate themselves from a past self that they have grown to hate. Keyaru could break down because his victims have somehow found a way to respond with something besides rage, pain, fear and hate. For any kind of redemption to be even remotely acceptable a very serious price has to be paid. I'd say Flare is already in the promise of some degree of payment, but I definitely would want Keyaru to have problems letting his hate go, and to suffer at least to some degree for that. And VDZ, I'm sorry if I came across as suggesting that Keyaru was justified. In my book there's no such thing as justified revenge. As I'd said, I can feel some satisfaction in seeing an awful person suffering, but that doesn't make the person causing the suffering any less awful. In my opinion, the "hero" and all his victims are awful, and as I said, I'd be strongly opposed to anyone who said that any of them was "less awful" than another. Last edited by BWTraveller; 2021-01-25 at 16:41. |
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Link #142 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
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again the mc only raped her a single time while himself was raped 6 months if we don't count the first reset and not only raped but again humiliated tortured and others stuffs which i can't say which will be expoiler for next episode and maybe some others stuffs, but she allowed him suffer and even goes to watch as him get tortured and raped, all over her "orders" she never denied anyone to do anything to him and even ordered peoples go for him to get powerup, we put in a balance the ammount of "suffer" he received compared with what he did to her, well you know... it not gonna be fair, if we put let's say in a court both of then will de deemed guilty but which one you thing get the worst punishment????? and again while he killed 2 peoples without any spoilers just based on what we watched i'm pretty sure she alone could had killed much more peoples than him and not only enemies but anyone she feel wanting. the thing is while both are monsters the difference is which she did much more horrible stuffs until this point than what he did and not only to him but to others peoples aswell and almost everything he did she somehow or did aswell or ordered someone to do for her which already is enough to put the same weight on her sholder. The point is trying to protect her and make it's looks like what he current did was "the same as what she did" is wrong because while his actions are indeed terrible and passive of punishment by no means when comes to "ammount" it comes close to her, without again count the fact which what he is now is full her fault, his current state is her full fault while his current self is a monster he still in a part "a victim" of all the crap they throwed at him, but this don't means which also being a victim make what he is doing "something to easy forgive" or give a pass, but he still was a victim too before he goes crazy. is so hard to understand that??, both are monster and he will do more bad stuffs for sure but what he currently did still low compared with what he suffered and what those peoples did not only to him but others peoples aswell, while for me "evil still evil, i can accept the concept of "less or more evil", i belive in both quality and ammount when comes of evil when comes to judging peoples, like a single chicken robber which robbed hundreds or chickens still a "less evil" than a guy which let's say cleaned your house full from all the stuffs, or if we going for edge, a guy which kiled a single person for the first time most of the times have a big chance to get a smaller punishment than let's say a mass muderer, or genocide, ofcourse it will based on each country and culture, some places both can get a death penal in others only the second while the first can go from a long time inside the prision for forever being jailed, ofcourse others stuffs matter like reason, without count at last for me the fact which he is only doing it for "evil peoples" which normally would diservers at best a death penal and not "everyone" like a full psychopat he is focused on the peoples for his revenge "not the whole world", or anyone which appear in his path. again compared with the castle he still have some "moral ground"s which they clear don't have. what really make me feel weird is peoples show compassion over her while at other hand acting like he aways was a monster and what he did not was with some "reason" or even some justification, which again don't means which what he did was right, being justified by his action not automatically means which what he did was right, just means which he had a reason and a good one to do it and some peoples could had did in his place but it don't remove his guilty or make him anything better just means which he had a reason to do that, if you can understand ""flare" and her actions which was worse than him why you can't understand the mc?? because he is a guy????, BWTraveller told if we reversed the stuffs and he was a girl and flare was a guy peoples could still having the same reaction????
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Last edited by Blueknight78; 2021-01-25 at 17:42. |
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Link #143 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Flare's sin is completely disregarding Keyaru's humanity, completely not caring about him as he was forced to suffer to meet her practical needs. (Remember: She commanded them to drug and lock up Keyaru if needed so he would do his job when necessary, not because she simply wanted him to suffer. She just didn't care about his suffering.) Keyaru, on the other hand, has nothing to gain by traveling back in time to get his revenge. In doing so, he 'revived' two of his enemies (who died in the original timeline), and he even had to endure six months of abuse. The outcome was only negative for him. He did all of this out of sheer malice to make others suffer. Flare was doing whatever was beneficial for her, and Keyaru was just collateral damage in that. She was 'merely' heartless; any suffering she caused was in pursuit of self-interest. Keyaru, on the other hand, did things that made him suffer more just so others would also suffer more. He is actively malicious; suffering is not a side effect, but the entire purpose of his actions. One can be reasoned with, and the suffering caused by her could be reduced if she has an equally attractive alternative to reach her goals. The other is pure malice, and will attempt to cause maximum suffering no matter what. How can the latter ever be less evil than the former? Yes, definitely. Pure malice can never be less evil than anything else. |
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Link #144 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Your redemption scenario sort of implies the "ends justify the means" which is really iffy I think. And we still haven't even met the rest of the harem/party. |
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Link #145 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
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I don't know if you're trying to force people to send you private messages with spoilers, but at least in the manga a lot of your questions are answered in the course of the story, like the reason for keeping Flare alive, so it's not better to wait than treat this as something that has already ended with several plot holes? We are still in the second episode ... |
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Link #146 | |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
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How do you get an "ends justifies the means" from my suggestion? I'm not saying anyone "succeeds". But a dark story has to go somewhere, and while it most certainly could just keep going deeper until everyone dies, I think that it would be interesting to see a conflicting psyche dealing with the fact that she hates what was done to her but she was indeed happier. This wouldn't directly suggest that raping her and turning her into a sex slave was beneficial to her, only that losing her memory and gaining freedom from her past was. And again, I'd be much more interested in seeing Keyaru collapse in shock at the fact that his plan failed, as it did not result in a full breakdown. Anyway, I never said it was perfect, just that I thought it would be interesting. If done really well it might result in a satisfying ending, but it could definitely be an interesting read. |
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Link #148 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
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his desire of revenge was more than just "kill" he wanted those peoples to suffer the same as he suffered this is why he don't just "kill then" it was clear in the final battle it was so which he told which he wanted more than just see then being killed, this is how "crazy peoples are" don't expectate they being "rational" for everything, many psychopats have a "modus operant" or a routine which is his case, which was first make the reset, then be ready for all the crap and make sure everyone diservers his punishment which is a point you are ignoring, what he talked to her was truth he really don't want to "punish" non guilty peoples and he was not really sure if she was really the monster as the others because most of the times she was near him when he was being "molested" he was drugged or herself molesting him he was drugged he was not on his own mind then he was not sure if she really did on her own will or maybe forced or something like that, only after he confirms which she indeed is really bad as her hero partners which he could keep up his plan. the reason for the reset, was more like a decision on the moment than was his full plan from the beginning, again during this year he started to become resistant and immune to the drug, he not auto broken and make all the plan in a single day just after he recover, it was something build slowly, he first tried to escape, tried to do others things but as everything keep failing and he find himself more and more deep in the darkness and since the drug don't protect him anymore from going crazy by using his power his mind started to break then he goes from want freedom to want revenge and not just a revenge to "kill" peoples but to make sure they will get max suffering before kill then, he become much sadist as the peoples which he want revenge, then his plan was being build during this time, he don't know about the time travel or anything it was something he was learning and making and again it was in that moment of the battle and when he saw the demon lord which made the decision to go back his curiosity over the demon lord was the last "string" to make him go back in time, he wanted revenge but he also wanted to know what the demon lord was trying to "protect" so fierce. Quote:
we have those peoples which believe "womans can't be evil and bla bla bla" and ignore a lot of trash and evil womans or try to defend then by saying which was the "male fault" they are that because "male horrible influence" and males must be destroyed from the world and all bla bla bla.
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Link #149 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Link #150 |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
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Bad choice of words perhaps. My point is that I wasn't suggesting that at all, only that being freed from her past might be something she'd see as a source of happiness. And in a way it would be success, it just would prove that he couldn't do what he set out to do, that instead of crushing her he freed her. But anyway, I don't really think it'll go that way and I don't think it's really a good ending. I don't know what WOULD be a good ending. I just thought it would be an interesting examination of a character's psyche.
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Link #151 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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When I say the "cost of success" I mean... hmm. Check out Memento or maybe even Madoka: Rebellion. Sort of hard to reference anything without drowning in spoilers. |
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Link #152 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
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^ The point that every other series goes the "revenge is bad and you will lose everything by it" proves nothing about this one. I, for one, wouldn't be against some originality there and the show ending with a happy ending. Both of them did pretty terrible things to each other, so you can say they are even now (by the end) and now they can live on happily. Kind of like an extreme version of the "two guys making up by beating each other to KO by the riverside" cliche.
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Link #153 |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
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Well anyway it was only speculation, born from some small hints at what may be speculation or may be spoilers I'd heard people talk about, that Flare actually harbored a great deal of self-loathing and had wound up like she was for various reasons, as well as that all Keyaru did was erase her memories of being the princess Flare, indicating that Freya isn't some made up personality he implanted to make her a happy slave but the person she could have been... only deceived and convinced she was a happy slave. If these speculations I'd heard are indeed accurate, then it would seem reasonable to think that, if she got her memories back, she would remember a life technically free but full of darkness and disgust at herself for what she'd become and a life released from everything she hated about herself but enslaved to a sadistic madman who wants nothing more than to see the moment she breaks. Both sides are horrible in their own way, and both have aspects that might be desirable, so it could make for an interesting internal conflict.
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Link #154 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Link #155 |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
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Yeah, I don't want them to end up together. That's way further than I'm willing to go. I just thought it'd be cool to see her upset over having two lives that she both loathes and loves, or to see the targets of his revenge find some way to become happy (not meaning happy with him, just normal and happy) and have him break down over that.
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Link #156 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
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if you can't stand with peoples just being more "rational" than emotional or just want to have some fun discussing about it, then serious this is the best time because things only get worst from this point then if you can't stand with it would be you just ignore this serie it can be much better to you.
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Link #157 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Age: 35
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Link #158 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
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I don't know if it's because of the success or if it was already planned since the beginning, but this week the number of streamings in Japan that will start showing the anime has increased a lot (before it was just Docomo).: http://kaiyari.com/onair.html
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Link #159 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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You guys are a defensive bunch.
![]() Unless something happens way beyond where the anime (or even the manga) is there's barely a story basis for what people are speculating or want to happen with Flare; she's introduced in such a way as to make Keyaru look better and we know almost nothing about her. Its like unironically wanting the Usagi Drop (manga) or School Days (anime) ending just for the sake of being different. |
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Link #160 |
Born to ship
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
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I don't necessarily think it'd be a good ending, I just thought it'd be interesting to see. But I can't come up with an ending that I'd ever call "good" or even really satisfying given the situation. The primary characters are such trash that you can't want either of them to beat the other.
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ecchi, fantasy |
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