Macross Frontier (Macross 25) general discussion [No Spoilers]

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by forgottendiary

I'm no astrology buff but this is Sheryl we're talking about, so:

Oh no, when I mentioned Sagittarius-01, that was actually Alto's call sign in Episode 24.

Originally Posted by DeX-kun

I'm a Taurus...

It's okay Sir Dex, you'll have someone who'll compliment you perfectly. *rushes off to find Ta--- someone's star sign*

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Good thing my IRC is kind of getting crazy right now... I can hear the IRC groans in cheesie's fangirling at the moment

[forgottendiary]

Originally Posted by cheesie

Oh no, when I mentioned Sagittarius-01, that was actually Alto's call sign in Episode 24.

Haha, yeah, I know. Just that my mind zoomed off to astrology without warning XD

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Rah-Rah

Which begs a question I've been wondering for a while now: After the Frontier movie what are their plans for the franchise? I mean, Frontier has turned out to be much, much more popular then I'm sure they had anticipated, espically when it's popularity justicies making something like Macross Ace. I hope we don't have to wait another 5 years or something for the next project they may have in store, cause seriously, there is still a lot they could do with the universe they've set up (or the cast of Frontier in particuar, because, Ranka aside (don't flame me people), the cast is a generally likeable bunch, and I firmly belive you could tell more of a story with them). Just a curious thought.

Unlike Gundam, which gets a new series in just about every year, the Macross franchise has an uneven production time-frame. The only thing we can do is to cross our fingers and wait.

That being said, I sure do want to see the Supervision Army in action, or perhaps the original Protoculture, I personally believe their appearance in a Macross franchise is long overdue.

- Tak (And this is interesting because its now approaching Macross II's time-line)

[justavisitor]

wow, all of a sudden we have astrology class in here

Dex-Kun you should be proud that you have the same zodiac sign of Ranka??

I don't know much about astrology, but aren't Leo (Alto) and Sagittarius (Sheryl) both signs of fire?? Depending one's viewpoint, it's either good that they have something in common and it's bad that fire clashing with fire XD

And if we want to know further,do we need to know their moon zodiac as well?? But that also depends on the place they are born right?? And they were probably born far away from Earth...

And before you guys try to make Leo and Sagittarius as the most perfect couple in the history of mankind, beware that Leon may be a Leo also...you know his parents may think of giving the name of their son as Leon since he is born under Leo ...

Not a serious post at all..it's just I try to join in the astrology discussion, and that's it

Edit:
I don't know if it's just a coincidence that Ranka is a little queen under Taurus...but Queen Elizabeth II is a Taurus as well....

[forgottendiary]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

wow, all of a sudden we have astrology class in here

Dex-Kun you should be proud that you have the same zodiac sign of Ranka??

I don't know much about astrology, but aren't Leo (Alto) and Sagittarius (Sheryl) both signs of fire?? Depending one's viewpoint, it's either good that they have something in common and it's bad that fire clashing with fire XD

And if we want to know further,do we need to know their moon zodiac as well?? But that also depends on the place they are born right?? And they were probably born far away from Earth...

And before you guys try to make Leo and Sagittarius as the most perfect couple in the history of mankind, beware that Leon may be a Leo also...you know his parents may think of giving the name of their son as Leon since he is born under Leo ...

Not a serious post at all..it's just I try to join in the astrology discussion, and that's it

Edit:
I don't know if it's just a coincidence that Ranka is a little queen under Taurus...but Queen Elizabeth II is a Taurus as well....

Please, this was so 12 hours ago <_<

[BetoJR]

I'm a Leo.

[Teletha]

This page about Leo/Taurus http://www.bestdresses.com/horoscope/Leo-Taurus.htm is pretty hilarious

Relationships between Taurus girls and Leo boys rarely work out in the long run. Your signs are often drawn to each other physically, and things can work on that level for a short while. You’ll feel bad, though, when he abandons you for the spotlight that he craves. If it’s a choice between being with you and being at the center of the excitement, he’ll choose the excitement.

For Taurus: This is not only an unlikely connection but one that is built on deception.

This is an ill-fated connection, your extravagance and desire to party are antagonizing to the prudent Bull. This relationship is not likely to start up in the first place, and not likely to last if you do make it to first base.

Hahaha

Anyway, speaking of what is next I hope there is a new series sooner rather then later. I don't think the three have to play a huge main role, but just being in a continuation would be nice.

[Father Hentai]

I' m glad that I'm Aquarius and born the same day as Satoshi Urushihara

I had little concerns that Ranka is Taurus, because only 50% of her being matches with the tauran zodiac. I thought of her at least as cancer (Lucky color is green).


The other Zodiac fit to the characters almost 1:1.

[azndragon4k]

i was wondering why non the macross get dub

[Tak]

Originally Posted by azndragon4k

i was wondering why non the macross get dub

Not quite, the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Macross II and Macross PLUS were all dubbed. However, the release of PLUS stateside also triggered a major lawsuit that have put the future of the Macross franchise in the US on a standstill.

So, until they get that resolved, we won't see another "dubbed" Macross.

Not that I ever want to see Macross dubbed, but there it is.

- Tak

[raile]

Dubs scare me. O_O

[bishopcruz]

Dubs aren't bad in and of themselves the problem is that in the US there are VERY few good voice acting directors, and IMO only once exceptional dramatic one. Andrea Romano is amazing, the best in the business bar none, and she has yet to produce a dub that is anything below 'good' (and that was one of her rare missteps). Problem is she tends to work on original properties.

The US anime industy's dubbing struggles like hell as a result of this lack of good directors. Anime dubs also get a lot of 2nd rate VAs who aren't as good as those who work on American produced shows either.

MacF could be GREAT with a very good dub, but besides the legal issues mentioned in other posts, the realities of the current production environments make that possibility remote at best.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by bishopcruz

Dubs aren't bad in and of themselves the problem is that in the US there are VERY few good voice acting directors, and IMO only once exceptional dramatic one. Andrea Romano is amazing, the best in the business bar none, and she has yet to produce a dub that is anything below 'good' (and that was one of her rare missteps). Problem is she tends to work on original properties.

The US anime industy's dubbing struggles like hell as a result of this lack of good directors. Anime dubs also get a lot of 2nd rate VAs who aren't as good as those who work on American produced shows either.

MacF could be GREAT with a very good dub, but besides the legal issues mentioned in other posts, the realities of the current production environments make that possibility remote at best.

At the very best, I think everyone here tends to think that dub lacks a lot of thing that is not in the original version. Tones of the characters, for example, often changed so much that it's not recognizable from the original version. And you do know this is because each countries have their own unique tones to express feeling.

Another problem would be how these dubbers tend to appear not to take their job as much as the Japanese ones. Unless they are professional dubbers (which I have yet to admit ;p), most ends up with utter... Crap for the lack of better words.

Last thing, people's preference. Have I mentioned how I like the voice not to be too deep and... Englishy? I mean, I tend to view anime as Japanese production and when it's dubbed... Well, let's just say that it's weird. Like watching Thai film with France dubbing. Or anything.

And this is not counting localization that tends to makes people cry... Oh, do I need to be reminded of the horrors of Yuu-Gi-Oh! The dubbed version... (And that is the sole reason why I dropped that full of yaoi hints series. Brrrr...)

[bishopcruz]

Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga

At the very best, I think everyone here tends to think that dub lacks a lot of thing that is not in the original version. Tones of the characters, for example, often changed so much that it's not recognizable from the original version. And you do know this is because each countries have their own unique tones to express feeling.

Another problem would be how these dubbers tend to appear not to take their job as much as the Japanese ones. Unless they are professional dubbers (which I have yet to admit ;p), most ends up with utter... Crap for the lack of better words.

Last thing, people's preference. Have I mentioned how I like the voice not to be too deep and... Englishy? I mean, I tend to view anime as Japanese production and when it's dubbed... Well, let's just say that it's weird. Like watching Thai film with France dubbing. Or anything.

And this is not counting localization that tends to makes people cry... Oh, do I need to be reminded of the horrors of Yuu-Gi-Oh! The dubbed version... (And that is the sole reason why I dropped that full of yaoi hints series. Brrrr...)

I don't quite understand your complaint about a dub sounding too much like English, I kinda think that's the point. It IS different than Japanese, and it is NOT the original. That original will always continue to exist. I would argue though, that the worst dubs are those that sound the least "English", those where the dialogue was clearly translated from another language, and simply doesn't flow. A good dub has to be an interpretation of the original, much like a good translation does, but a dub ALSO has to worry about how things sound. It's often too much for a lot of modern studios.

Look, I'm not saying that the dub is LIKELY to be good, in fact I was implying the opposite. I was just saying that the Macross series is one of those that can work with a good dub, due to its setting and the fact that at the end of the day it's heavily implied that the characters are supposed to be speaking English anyway. (Black Lagoon is another series that this happens in).

As to your view of professional dubbers, well they DO exist, lots of them, or we wouldn't have dubs at all in the Anime world. Now most of the studios that handle these simple aren't very good. A lot of the reason is that many of the studios that dub anime ONLY do anime, and most of the best talent in the voice acting business exists outside of that market. So now we get a lot of voice actors that only work on either anime or original productions, and not much crossover between the two.

This wasn't the case in the late-80s early 90's and while the translations in those days were loads worse than they are today, the acting was heads and tails above what we get now. (With very few exceptions, the Ghibli dubs are pretty high class, and there are other surprises here and there.)

Making a good dub is ridiculously hard work, you need good scriptwriters, good actors, and a good director. In Macross Frontier's case you'd also need access to good singers and musicians to do the music right. Most studios don't have the resources or more frankly talent to pull it off.

Not to mention this really is all just whistling dixie as the odds of this series getting licensed in the first place are pretty slim.

[abynormal]

Originally Posted by bishopcruz

I don't quite understand your complaint about a dub sounding too much like English, I kinda think that's the point. It IS different than Japanese, and it is NOT the original. That original will always continue to exist. I would argue though, that the worst dubs are those that sound the least "English", those where the dialogue was clearly translated from another language, and simply doesn't flow. A good dub has to be an interpretation of the original, much like a good translation does, but a dub ALSO has to worry about how things sound. It's often too much for a lot of modern studios.

Look, I'm not saying that the dub is LIKELY to be good, in fact I was implying the opposite. I was just saying that the Macross series is one of those that can work with a good dub, due to its setting and the fact that at the end of the day it's heavily implied that the characters are supposed to be speaking English anyway. (Black Lagoon is another series that this happens in).

As to your view of professional dubbers, well they DO exist, lots of them, or we wouldn't have dubs at all in the Anime world. Now most of the studios that handle these simple aren't very good. A lot of the reason is that many of the studios that dub anime ONLY do anime, and most of the best talent in the voice acting business exists outside of that market. So now we get a lot of voice actors that only work on either anime or original productions, and not much crossover between the two.

This wasn't the case in the late-80s early 90's and while the translations in those days were loads worse than they are today, the acting was heads and tails above what we get now. (With very few exceptions, the Ghibli dubs are pretty high class, and there are other surprises here and there.)

Making a good dub is ridiculously hard work, you need good scriptwriters, good actors, and a good director. In Macross Frontier's case you'd also need access to good singers and musicians to do the music right. Most studios don't have the resources or more frankly talent to pull it off.

Not to mention this really is all just whistling dixie as the odds of this series getting licensed in the first place are pretty slim.

Also bear in mind that anime dubs have other factors going against them that English animation doesn't.

Probably the number one enemy of the English dub is time constraints. I think I read somewhere that anime dubs have an average recording period of just two weeks. That may sound like a lot for a twenty minute episode, but most dub actors work by email these days, not in a professional recording studio with the director sitting right there. Chances are he's working on other series simultaneously, so he might not get the luxury of focusing on a single production at a time. Meanwhile the voice actors have other gigs to take care of, families, appearances to make, and they also may get sick.

There's also no room for ad-libbing. In English animation they record the voices first and then animate, which gives the actors freedom to experiment and change lines. Anime dub actors don't get that luxury, and in addition to matching the Japanese delivery which they may or may not have heard first, they also have to match lip flaps, hence we get odd pauses in sentences sometimes. This is more the writer's job, as they have to translate, make the new lines sync with lip flaps and make the dialogue flow as naturally as possible.

There are some GREAT anime dub actors out there, but even the likes of Vic Mignola and Wendee Lee can get hamstrung by a director who's on a tight budget and schedule, or is just plain not that good.

Getting back on topic, I think the music would be the biggest stumbling block for a dub production. The VA's will need to be either GREAT singers, or they'll simply have to negotiate to keep the songs in Japanese.

[Father Hentai]

I think it is not the problem that something sounds english or in another foreign language.

The problem I see most with dubs is that either they are over- or underaccented.
Another thing is also that most dubbers have heard about the character they synchronize but they do not feel or go deeper into the character. They just receive the script and there they go. Also a thing is that good dub studios are expensive and much tv broadcasters aren' t willing to invest some money into the series.

Just as an example of epic failure of German dub. Could you image that synchro speaker of the little dude was the same who synchroed Vegeta: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vf20Qwf3lo

It was so horrible that it sounded funny first but the TV broadcaster received a lot of complaints about vegetas first voice. End of the story: They fixed the voice in later episodes.

[bishopcruz]

Originally Posted by abynormal

Also bear in mind that anime dubs have other factors going against them that English animation doesn't.

Probably the number one enemy of the English dub is time constraints. I think I read somewhere that anime dubs have an average recording period of just two weeks. That may sound like a lot for a twenty minute episode, but most dub actors work by email these days, not in a professional recording studio with the director sitting right there. Chances are he's working on other series simultaneously, so he might not get the luxury of focusing on a single production at a time. Meanwhile the voice actors have other gigs to take care of, families, appearances to make, and they also may get sick.

Which is the main problem with the Anime dubbing industry right now. I think a lot of those problems came around during the ridiculously huge boom a few years back when the market was flooded with more shows than either the market, or the publishers could reasonably handle.

It's funny though, you'd think with the work via email production, it would allow for a greater variety in VAs, but that really doesn't seem to be the case at all. We are still stuck with a relatively small pool of talent when you consider the number of titles released.

There's also no room for ad-libbing. In English animation they record the voices first and then animate, which gives the actors freedom to experiment and change lines. Anime dub actors don't get that luxury, and in addition to matching the Japanese delivery which they may or may not have heard first, they also have to match lip flaps, hence we get odd pauses in sentences sometimes. This is more the writer's job, as they have to translate, make the new lines sync with lip flaps and make the dialogue flow as naturally as possible.

Which was pretty much my argument, you need writers who can pull things like that off, and there aren't many of them who are working in the industry right now.

There are some GREAT anime dub actors out there, but even the likes of Vic Mignola and Wendee Lee can get hamstrung by a director who's on a tight budget and schedule, or is just plain not that good.

Hell, even some of the old greats like Snegoff and Clarke can get boned by a bad director and script, even in an original western production. Look at Robotech: Shadow Chronicles as a prime example.

Getting back on topic, I think the music would be the biggest stumbling block for a dub production. The VA's will need to be either GREAT singers, or they'll simply have to negotiate to keep the songs in Japanese.

In a dub of any of the TV series, I think that NOT dubbing the songs would be a huge mistake. Mainly because the songs and the characters are tied so close together that it becomes a bit jarring to hear a different voice and language suddenly appear. In Plus it worked out more or less because Sharon Apple's songs were always a mishmash of languages/singers. I can't see it working in Frontier.

Of course, a bad music dub can really hurt an otherwise competent dub. Need I remind anyone here of Robotech?

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

I think it is not the problem that something sounds english or in another foreign language.

The problem I see most with dubs is that either they are over- or underaccented.
Another thing is also that most dubbers have heard about the character they synchronize but they do not feel or go deeper into the character. They just receive the script and there they go. Also a thing is that good dub studios are expensive and much tv broadcasters aren' t willing to invest some money into the series.

Just as an example of epic failure of German dub. Could you image that synchro speaker of the little dude was the same who synchroed Vegeta: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vf20Qwf3lo

It was so horrible that it sounded funny first but the TV broadcaster received a lot of complaints about vegetas first voice. End of the story: They fixed the voice in later episodes.

It all comes back to the inherent problems in the industry I suppose.

But man, Urkel as Vegeta. Total win.

It's a shame that budgets for dubs are as low as they are though, because a good dub could really help drive sales, especially as a differentiator from the freely available fansubs.

Still, maybe one day my dream dub of Frontier will come about. Kinda doubt it though. What was that line: "Dreams are dreams because they're unattainable." or something right?

[bishopcruz]

Back to some questions on the Liner notes. Where did they come from it appears that Shaloom is translating from SOMETHING, but I know some of the people on MW are trying to figure out from WHAT. I don't think he's making it up, mainly because to create these interviews just for shits and giggles would seem to be way too much effort to just be a douche. OTOH, it is driving some people pretty crazy trying to verify that this information is indeed accurate. I can't quite get into where these interviews are located as of yet, (just signed up for the MG forum, posting in spanish is tough for me, even though there is some great discussion there.) so I can't read the original posts. Just wondering if these are all official information, are they published together in some booklet, or are they cobbled together from different sources then compiled on the site?

[BetoJR]

These interviews were conducted in the Macross Radio Broadcast, that was going on in Japan, while Macross Frontier was being aired. As for the other infos not pertaining to the interviews themselves, I don't know - but they could have come from the same source, just not being transliterated in full.