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Old 2008-04-27, 21:55   Link #3281
Daito-kun
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Personally I don't thik tha Harima is such a bastard... but I think he owes Eri an apology
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Old 2008-04-27, 22:27   Link #3282
Owaranai Destiny
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I AM late...

In any case, the focus is how the two of them reacts to each other. I would think Eri's tears are considered a big issue since we don't often see her cry. A biased statement would have it that "She deserved it", while the more appropriate way of describing this is that Eri 'tried to deal with the fire only to get burnt'.
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Old 2008-04-28, 00:01   Link #3283
Ermes Marana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
So wait I support flag and you say this is flamebait? How does that work exactly? I mean are you saying I'm not a true flagger because I'm not saying "screw you Harima! How dare you be mean to Eri!"

Can you quote all the people who said "screw you Harima!"


The oversensitive people here are the ones who are seeing illusions of people bashing Harima.


He said something stupid. That doesn't make him a bad person at all. In fact, if he never said anything stupid he wouldn't be human.

He doesn't need your impassioned defense against imaginary bashers.
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Old 2008-04-28, 11:16   Link #3284
Visiroth
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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
Well he may know that now. I was bringing up how Harima felt when he thought she HAD ripped up his manga.

But he may care about the ecosystem too.
Oh, I know that he was upset. The point that I was getting at is that it's not going to influence his view of her right now, since he knows what really happened.

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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
Yes, yes we all know they've been resolved but I'm going by Harima's initial reactions to the things Eri has done to him in the past. At no point during those eventts did Harima think she was doing those things for any other reason than because she is "that troublesome cruel ojou that gets in my way."
Yeah, but that's not the only things that he's ever thought about her. When you hang out with someone, you learn about their strengths and weaknesses. As much as Harima complains about her, there's much more to their relationship than just that.

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and again yes they were resolved but Harima took them only as friendly gestures and Eri always found a way to make Harima take it back in the end. He's never once thought that Eri did something because she was in love with him. Same with Yakumo as well Harima's only ever seen her as a great friend and partner to help him with his manga. He hasn't really thought about Yakumo's feeings because he doesn't even know she has them.
But the problem that we're talking about isn't even an issue of love.

While Harima may not see his relationship with Yakumo as romantic right now, they still have a strong connection. In 258, Harima mentions that Yakumo might no longer want to be his assistant. He then makes a promise that they'll work together until they become good enough to surpass Karasuma. That's a fairly powerful commitment.

Eri's situation is quite different. As 271 points out, they're classmates with zero connection. There's nothing there to bring the two together. That's why it's so important that all of these unresolved issues get resolved. They need to be able to reach some sort of an understanding here. This current "friendship" is no real friendship at all.

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Besides it's not like Harima's the only one with this problem. Just look at Hanai.
I'm not sure how a discussion of Hanai will be relevant, but you can tell me about his problems too, if you'd like.

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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
Meh people refer to it by dere-dere in other places on the web so I thought that was the appropriate term. Sorry. Still I want that to be the goal too, but I don't think people should get mad with Harima's actions because it will lead to that goal.
A tsundere goes through phases of tsuntsun and deredere. The former is the sharp, caustic side, and the latter is the sweet, caring side. But it's always good to learn something new.

Well, getting angry with Harima's actions won't lead anywhere. The reader reactions have nothing to do with how Harima responds. But it was a pretty harsh chapter to read, so it's natural for people to want to express their feelings on it.

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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
Meh Harima didn't sound arrogant to me. He was just being honest with her by telling her to move on to someone else because he was already in love with someone. I don't see how that's arrogance really.
If Harima wasn't acting arrogantly, then why did he apologize to Eri at the hospital for it on his own initiative?

That's also why the two page spread in the 22p special has the lines:
"You're full of yourself, but that's ok."
"Come Mr. Pride, follow us!"
"You're disgusting, but it's ok."
"I'm sorry that I was born..."

He acted that way because he thought that he had suddenly became a ladies' man.

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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
Well I'm not expecting a confession. I'm expecting her more to say something along the lines of that he's an idiot because she does love someboy, but they're too stupid to notice... or something like that. Also again why would Harima look at the pros? Even with all the pros in the world Eri has brought more misfortune to Harima than actual good fortune. Heck he thinks she's bad luck for goodness sakes there's no way he's going to think of her pros especially now.
He's not going to think of them, but that doesn't mean that they aren't there. I was just saying that this "hate" isn't absolute. He's not telling Eri what he "truly feels about her", since he's only bringing up the things from the past that have made him angry.
Even if you have a fight with someone whom you love, you're still going to bring up the issues that hurt you, not the issues that were positive. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you actually despise the person.

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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
Yes he's telling her it out of anger and hurt, but he's also saying it because he believes it to be true. Since Harima doesn't know of Eri's feelings for him he really doesn't think she understands love at all. We may know that to be untrue but Harima doesn't. He won't know that until Eri comes forward and tells him.
That's fair.

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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
Are you kidding? On seperate occasions Tenma has tried to set up Harima with both Yakumo and Eri. Also Yakumo has tried to set up Harima with Eri when she told Harima about Eri's feelings for him. Also that didn't really come out of the blue as he's said multiple times throughout the series that he could never fall for someone like Eri. Heck Harima even told Tenma this at the airport. Even so he might have just blurted that out of anger.
Tenma doesn't tell Harima that he should date Eri or Yakumo at the airport; she asks if he's interested in either Eri or Yakumo. Yakumo didn't try to set up Harima with Eri; she just told him that Eri loved him. The last time that Harima was set-up was on New Year's day by Mikoto (unless you want to count Yakushamaru Kouji in Kyoto, but I still don't understand what he did). Aside from that, we've had many instances of people pushing Eri to tell Harima her feelings, but Harima isn't aware of any of that.

Harima doesn't say anything about dating Eri at the airport. He just says that he doesn't like girls like her, because she thinks she's so special. The shrimp comment leads me to think that he's making up excuses, though, since in 204 it's revealed that Harima and Eri both share that dislike of shrimp.

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I'm not making large generalizations. Especially since other posters in here have brought up the question of why Harima is being bashed too. I get your point though.
Actually, I don't think that Owaranai Destiny still agrees with you (although that bit of information wasn't available to you when you made your post). When you keep insisting that "Flaggers are attacking Harima!" you're bound to get a few responses of "Harima's under attack? Let's get those bastards!" before people finally figure out that it's just a false alarm. Not that anyone can blame them; there's been like five pages of posts since this chapter was released, and unless you've been keeping up to date, there's no way of knowing who said what. At best you can just try to infer what was said from the current discussion.

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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
So wait I support flag and you say this is flamebait? How does that work exactly? I mean are you saying I'm not a true flagger because I'm not saying "screw you Harima! How dare you be mean to Eri!" I'm guessing you think I'm one of those onigiri faction people that hate flaggers too? Well I guess I'm not the only one making sweeping and transparent generalizations about people.
I neither knew nor cared who you support. I'm not talking about you; I'm talking about your posts. But this makes your generalization even funnier, now that it could be self-referential. Were you telling yourself to stop bashing Harima?

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Even though I'm a kids meal fan... But still that makes me a flagger by default as well as a onigiri fan so don't you dare say stuff like I'm trying to flamebait one of the fandoms I actually support. I just want flaggers to calm down and not take Harima insulting Eri so personally. Besides if it's going to be resolved soon anyways there's no reason to throw stones at Harima. I just don't like how flaggers are turning Harima into the bad guy that's all.
Well, if they're going to give me free parking everywhere, then sign me up for kid's meal too. Although I want Oudou, Mission Impossible, Marker, and Pencil included in the package as well, just for added protection. Now nobody can disagree with me! Well... aside from the shounen-ai fans, that is.

These labels were originally meant for the pairings, not the fans who supported them. That's why the generalizations are so pointless; when you say "flaggers are turning Harima into the bad guy", which flagger(s) are you referring to? Is it me? Is it you? Is it someone who isn't in this discussion but should be?

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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
If I'm getting frustrated it's probably because I'm not getting anywhere in trying to relay that point.
If you want to make some progress, tell us exactly whose points you're complaining about. You were talking earlier about how Eri needs to be more specific about what she really feels instead of being so wishy-washy, if she wants to make any progress. The same thing applies here: don't make the same mistake!
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Old 2008-04-28, 11:49   Link #3285
kenjiharima
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Originally Posted by Daito-kun View Post
Personally I don't thik tha Harima is such a bastard... but I think he owes Eri an apology
True. But if Harima is going to stay as the old bad ass ways. It might take awhile for an apology to come out his mouth.
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Old 2008-04-28, 18:01   Link #3286
Aethos
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Can you quote all the people who said "screw you Harima!"


The oversensitive people here are the ones who are seeing illusions of people bashing Harima.


He said something stupid. That doesn't make him a bad person at all. In fact, if he never said anything stupid he wouldn't be human.

He doesn't need your impassioned defense against imaginary bashers.
Ah I must have been imagining things then when I saw posts in this thread stating that they hated Harima and how he's such a bastard because of how he treated Eri. I may have exaggerated on the screw you bit though, but that's pretty much the impression I got from people in this thread. A group of Eri fans who were only pissed at Harima because he dared to "insult" Eri.

But you're right. I'm sorry about being so "impassioned" to try and defend a character I like and who I believe is being misjudged. Apparently I should have just stayed quiet, or jumped on the Harima hate bandwagon.

Visiroth I see no point in replying to the discussion we were having anymore. I'm obviously on the losing side here. So you win. Obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about so I don't deserve to have an opinion. I'm sorry I even bothered trying.
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Old 2008-04-28, 19:43   Link #3287
Ermes Marana
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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
Obviously I have no idea what I'm talking about so I don't deserve to have an opinion. I'm sorry I even bothered trying.
If it makes you feel any better, Harima is still by far my favorite character in the manga. He said something stupid and hurt someone, but it will take a lot more than that to lower my opinion of him. It may end up being a good thing he said it.


If Harima was perfect, I couldn't relate to him so well. Nobody is hating Harima, in fact you are the one that brought up hating Harima in the first place. You brought the idea into the thread despite nobody else saying anything like that.
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Old 2008-04-28, 20:45   Link #3288
Aethos
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If it makes you feel any better, Harima is still by far my favorite character in the manga. He said something stupid and hurt someone, but it will take a lot more than that to lower my opinion of him. It may end up being a good thing he said it.


If Harima was perfect, I couldn't relate to him so well. Nobody is hating Harima, in fact you are the one that brought up hating Harima in the first place. You brought the idea into the thread despite nobody else saying anything like that.
It does, but it seemed like people were starting to hate on him as much as they hate on Tenma (I hate Tenma too so...) and all because he called her a cheap girl with cheap feelings. I felt I at least should defend him.

and can you blame me for thinking people were hating on Harima with posts like this?

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3317

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3319

But considering it's much worse than that on another forum I go too. Where Harima is being referred to as the world's biggest asshole for insulting Eri. I guess I got a bit more heated than I should have. So as I said I don't deserve to have an opinion. I shouldn't have bothered saying anything and I'm sorry I ever did.
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Old 2008-04-28, 22:12   Link #3289
DragonX
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Yeah Harima overreacted a bit but thats the kind of atittude she shows to a lot of other people. Sure she might really be the sweet gal that all the Eri fans love(myself included) but she rarely shows that side to anyone let alone Harima. Eri needs to get off her high-hourse, accept that she likes Harima and go after him in full force. If she dosen't, then Harima won't be able to break his tunnel vision that Eri is a stuck-up princess who sometimes has her moments. Don't worry though I'm sure Yakumo is about to get a thunderbolt as well. Even as an Onigiri supporter I think she's overdo for one.
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Old 2008-04-28, 22:15   Link #3290
Visiroth
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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
It does, but it seemed like people were starting to hate on him as much as they hate on Tenma (I hate Tenma too so...) and all because he called her a cheap girl with cheap feelings. I felt I at least should defend him.
I don't really think that people hate Tenma so much as they like to complain about her. She's really not all that bad.

But even there, if you take that forum character popularity poll, 21% of the voters voted for Tenma as one of their favourite characters. But why don't you see anyone complaining about Tenma being unnecessarily maligned?

No matter how well liked a character is, people aren't going to tiptoe around and hold them blameless for everything that they do. It's a combination of those strengths and weaknesses that make a character complete. If you're unable to appreciate both, then you aren't enjoying the complete character.

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and can you blame me for thinking people were hating on Harima with posts like this?

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3317

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3319
Were those the main posts that you were getting worked up over, or was there more?

The first post just seems to be fist-shaking. The poster doesn't say that they hate Harima, they're just saying that they're upset the chapter and about Harima making Eri cry. That's fair; I don't recall there being anything in the rules against expressing how you feel after reading a chapter.

The second post only says that Harima's actions are wrong. The poster doesn't say that Harima is a bad person. That's fair as well. What's more, you're quoting a Riceballer! So this really has nothing to do with what faction you support.

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But considering it's much worse than that on another forum I go too. Where Harima is being referred to as the world's biggest asshole for insulting Eri. I guess I got a bit more heated than I should have. So as I said I don't deserve to have an opinion. I shouldn't have bothered saying anything and I'm sorry I ever did.
Everyone deserves to have an opinion, but nobody deserves to have their opinion go unchallenged. Say whatever you want, but go in with the expectation that someone or the other is bound to disagree with you.
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Old 2008-04-28, 22:26   Link #3291
HayashiTakara
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So... much... text...... you're hurting my brain people!!!!!!!!!

uh... um.... FLAG ending? XD
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Old 2008-04-29, 00:39   Link #3292
Aethos
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Originally Posted by Visiroth View Post

But even there, if you take that forum character popularity poll, 21% of the voters voted for Tenma as one of their favourite characters. But why don't you see anyone complaining about Tenma being unnecessarily maligned?
I thought people did complain about that... Heck it was like a party in here when Tenma finally left the series.


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Originally Posted by Visiroth View Post
Were those the main posts that you were getting worked up over, or was there more?

The first post just seems to be fist-shaking. The poster doesn't say that they hate Harima, they're just saying that they're upset the chapter and about Harima making Eri cry. That's fair; I don't recall there being anything in the rules against expressing how you feel after reading a chapter.

The second post only says that Harima's actions are wrong. The poster doesn't say that Harima is a bad person. That's fair as well. What's more, you're quoting a Riceballer! So this really has nothing to do with what faction you support.
Well considering the rest of the posts centered on Akira kissing Hanai... Yeah I guess those were the one's. But as I said on another forum I go too people were saying that Harima was a complete asshole to Eri and well I guess I took it out on this forum as well as that forum... Though this one didn't really deserve it I suppose. So I'm sorry for that. I guess I made a big mistake


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Everyone deserves to have an opinion, but nobody deserves to have their opinion go unchallenged. Say whatever you want, but go in with the expectation that someone or the other is bound to disagree with you.
No I understood that. I just meant I don't deserve an opinion because I was fighting a losing battle that I wasn't really winning in the first place. I mean really what was the point of saying anything if I couldn't even get you on the defensive?
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Old 2008-04-29, 07:02   Link #3293
kenjiharima
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Harima needed sometime alone to think of what to do with his life to go back to his old ways and find his real intentions, his mind was still in a blur and he just got into a fight with underworld criminals that he beat to a pulp. It's like a closed heart that won't think anything of anything logical, he just says things as is and as always a roughneck.

Hate him or not he was once like that. Remember his past, since we've all known Harima as OBAKA-SAN and not the BAD ASS kicker he once was.


Spoiler:
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Old 2008-04-29, 08:14   Link #3294
Aethos
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Harima needed sometime alone to think of what to do with his life to go back to his old ways and find his real intentions, his mind was still in a blur and he just got into a fight with underworld criminals that he beat to a pulp. It's like a closed heart that won't think anything of anything logical, he just says things as is and as always a roughneck.

Hate him or not he was once like that. Remember his past, since we've all known Harima as OBAKA-SAN and not the BAD ASS kicker he once was.


Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2008-04-29, 14:16   Link #3295
kenjiharima
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Spoiler:

Hmmm...possible.
Spoiler:
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Old 2008-04-29, 16:06   Link #3296
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would give some good plot though if Tenma return not long after he made his choice (hopefully Eri).....It would mean an inner battle in HArima
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Old 2008-04-29, 21:17   Link #3297
Visiroth
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Originally Posted by Aethos View Post
Spoiler:
While Harima wouldn't tell Yakumo off (or any other girl, for that matter: what would he blame them for? He hasn't even been in a real fight with any of them yet!) Harima could just as easily try to ignore her like he did when he thought that his manuscript was destroyed. If this issue of rejection could be sorted out by simple reasoning, I'm sure that Yakumo would have given it a shot much earlier.

I think that the shock of this incident has a better chance of pulling Harima out of this rut than anything else. Eri might not be able to provide the same sort of rational perspective that Yakumo could here, but in many ways, the the nature of Eri's feelings here might be even better suited to Harima needs. In many ways, they're kindred spirits in this situation: all that they need to do is to form a connection.
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Old 2008-04-30, 18:20   Link #3298
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While Harima wouldn't tell Yakumo off (or any other girl, for that matter: what would he blame them for? He hasn't even been in a real fight with any of them yet!) Harima could just as easily try to ignore her like he did when he thought that his manuscript was destroyed. If this issue of rejection could be sorted out by simple reasoning, I'm sure that Yakumo would have given it a shot much earlier.

I think that the shock of this incident has a better chance of pulling Harima out of this rut than anything else. Eri might not be able to provide the same sort of rational perspective that Yakumo could here, but in many ways, the the nature of Eri's feelings here might be even better suited to Harima needs. In many ways, they're kindred spirits in this situation: all that they need to do is to form a connection.
You're probably right... After all Yakumo really wouldn't be that much help. At least Eri has the ability to physically and mentally knock some sense into him. I doubt Yakumo would know how to deal with Harima.
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Old 2008-04-30, 18:37   Link #3299
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Yakumo does know how to deal wit Harima. She will make him some riceballs like in S1 .
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Old 2008-04-30, 19:52   Link #3300
Waven
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Yakumo does know how to deal wit Harima. She will make him some riceballs like in S1 .
Even with her onigiri-, animal-, manga-assistantpower she won't get through his mental shell right now. It needs someone like Eri whom he thinks he hates to pierce right through it reaching his heart. Sounds greasy? Well it's what all the people are waiting for including me
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