Psycho-Pass 2 - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[Triple_R]

The main difference I see between Kamui and Makishima so far is that Kamui seems to genuinely care about those he gets to work for him while Makishima tended to just use and abuse people (with maybe an exception or two, most notably the Korean hacker who's name escapes me now). Kamui certainly seems less willing/eager to kill people than Makishima was.

That makes Kamui seem a bit more sympathetic to me than Makishima did.

Aside from that, though, I don't see a huge difference - Their end goals may well be identical. Although Kamui might have a goal of demonstrating that Sibyl, as is, doesn't do enough to rehabilitate people. I don't know how authentic these hue/CC improvements were, but if whatever brought them about is sustainable, then that would make Sibyl look extremely negligent in trying to rehabilitate people.


All in all, a very good 2nd episode.

[Chosen_Hero]

So, two episodes in and I'm going to make a wild guess and say that Togane is actually Kogami.

Why? Well we keep getting the similarities between them from the get go, the opening is another clue and the anime keeps focusing way too much on him.

The part abojt advanced holograms kind of swayed me into this thinking.

So there are two possibilities:

1. He is a robot like the old hag in season 1.

2. He is actually Kogami using a very advanced hologram.

But, who knows? Maybe half way through the season Kogami will make his appearance tied to a chair where they'll find him unconscious. (again from the opening)

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The main difference I see between Kamui and Makishima so far is that Kamui seems to genuinely care about those he gets to work for him while Makishima tended to just use and abuse people (with maybe an exception or two, most notably the Korean hacker who's name escapes me now). Kamui certainly seems less willing/eager to kill people than Makishima was.

That makes Kamui seem a bit more sympathetic to me than Makishima did.

Aside from that, though, I don't see a huge difference - Their end goals may well be identical. Although Kamui might have a goal of demonstrating that Sibyl, as is, doesn't do enough to rehabilitate people. I don't know how authentic these hue/CC improvements were, but if whatever brought them about is sustainable, then that would make Sibyl look extremely negligent in trying to rehabilitate people.


All in all, a very good 2nd episode.

Well, one big difference is that Kamui still seems to have empathy where as Makishima did not. Makishima was a psychopath and never cared or even had the ability to empathize with others. Killing or death for him was no different that reading or picking up a newspaper. Kamui actually feels something at a person's death and he feels sorry for them and that it was a waste. He wants Akane to understand him, to sympathize with him and cries because she does not. Makishima could have cared less if other understood or cared about what he did. He did what he wanted to do because it was his desire, he really had no sort of altruistic desire.Kamui sincerely seems to want to help people in his twisted way. Makishima wanted to shake up society because he was basically bored.

[Iron Maw]

Oh, man that scene cigarettes just hits home how much Akane misses Ko-chan.

I wonder how often she been doing that? Since he left, or is it when she just really stressed?

Ugh, I'm still really not liking this dynamic between Akane and Mika at all. I wouldn't have a problem with this had Mika just the force a couple days or weeks ago, but she been there for half a year for crying out loud! She has had more than enough time to be adjusted to how Akane does things by now just like everyone else. Yet the plot acts as if she is still new, so the conflict here is just coming out as forced to me. =/

I'm still amazed how often Sibyl constantly works against own interests sometimes. Despite having an organic thought process, the ability to self-reason and capability perceive it's own flaws, not one of those 287 brains have any common sense. It relies on nothing but numbers despite the fact they can be manipulated and stubbornly refuses change it's approach leading it's own metaphorical arms and legs, the MWPSB to be pretty inefficient when things get hairy. With how it seems to have learned nothing from the incident with Makishima it's no better then some rigid A.I at the moment. Well at least Akane found two important clues from this disaster.

On a one last note, it's to see nice that Saiga will be back. They need someone like him at this point.

[AvianWing]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Well, one big difference is that Kamui still seems to have empathy where as Makishima did not. Makishima was a psychopath and never cared or even had the ability to empathize with others. Killing or death for him was no different that reading or picking up a newspaper. Kamui actually feels something at a person's death and he feels sorry for them and that it was a waste. He wants Akane to understand him, to sympathize with him and cries because she does not. Makishima could have cared less if other understood or cared about what he did. He did what he wanted to do because it was his desire, he really had no sort of altruistic desire.Kamui sincerely seems to want to help people in his twisted way. Makishima wanted to shake up society because he was basically bored.

Not sure if that's a fair thing to say about Makishima, lol. Sure he's a psychopath, but I doubt he's really just bored, at least according to Kogami's interpretation of his character near the end of season 1. Despite all his narcissism, Makishima's beliefs actually align quite well with the individualism of the Western ideal. Compared to Kamui, who appears to care too much about an individual even if he just blew up a few people. While Kamui may be a nicer guy, I'm sure most people would want to put a bullet in the bomber's head the moment he pressed that button.

Strangely enough, I actually don't have too much of a problem with Sibyl judgement system now that I've given some thoughts to it. It is essentially a computer. Find bugs/errors/exceptions to the system. Patch it by extracting the brain and understanding the exception. Rinse and repeat. The MWPSB Inspectors are just executing the orders given by Sibyl, which means they're pretty much ineffective since Sibyl is unable to understand this error in the first place, and that's why Enforcers are utilized, and also why Akane is so valued by Sibyl that they're willing to let her live. That's also why Mika is pretty much the worst inspector there is. Akane tries to understand her Enforcers and utilize them to their potential. Ginoza in season 1 is pretty much a dog keeper that, despite not trying to understand them, still let them do their thing. Mika openly rejects any input given by the enforcer.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by AvianWing

Strangely enough, I actually don't have too much of a problem with Sibyl judgement system now that I've given some thoughts to it. It is essentially a computer. Find bugs/errors/exceptions to the system. Patch it by extracting the brain and understanding the exception. Rinse and repeat. The MWPSB Inspectors are just executing the orders given by Sibyl, which means they're pretty much ineffective since Sibyl is unable to understand this error in the first place, and that's why Enforcers are utilized, and also why Akane is so valued by Sibyl that they're willing to let her live. That's also why Mika is pretty much the worst inspector there is. Akane tries to understand her Enforcers and utilize them to their potential. Ginoza in season 1 is pretty much a dog keeper that, despite not trying to understand them, still let them do their thing. Mika openly rejects any input given by the enforcer.

Unfortunately, Enforcers in general can't even take a leak unless an Inspector tells them to. So just they are as paralyzed as the latter and even then they still have to differ to Sibyl's judgement themselves. It doesn't help that Inspectors aren't encouraged in to treat their Enforcers as teammates instead criminals due not fitting into Sibyl's standards of healthy individuals. So brilliant, invaluable well meaning people like Kogami, Masaoka and Saiga are treated as mad dogs. It's miracle that Akane has non-standard Psycho-Pass that let's her work Division so effectively. There only two ways MWPSB will truly be effective here, either the Sibyl loose the leash a bit on the organization or the Enforcers get more power to have their say and independent action.

Personally I also don't buy that adding brains is necessary the only way for Sibyl to expand it's range of thought. If can thinking and not just follow routines, it should be capable of thinking outside the box and making exceptions on a case by case basis by observation/speculation/etc. Kitzawa should never have been released even it couldn't understand how it was manipulating his Psycho Pass. The fact he was caught red handed, admitted to it and had HUE figures should have at least left him in the for labs for study. The Sibyl system is just too flawed/broken for it wield the power that it does.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Personally I also don't buy that adding brains is necessary the only way for Sibyl to expand it's range of thought. If can thinking and not just follow routines, it should be capable of thinking outside the box and making exceptions on a case by case basis by observation/speculation/etc. Kitzawa should never have been released even it couldn't understand how it was manipulating his Psycho Pass. The fact he was caught red handed, admitted to it and had HUE figures should have at least left him in the for labs for study. The Sibyl system is just too flawed/broken for it wield the power that it does.

But it does make exceptions, revealing itself to Akane is a good example of that. Also, you're making a very strong assumption that adding brains is the only way for Sybil to expand itself; as far as I can see when there is a case of a criminally asymptotic individual, he is added to the system. Even that seems to be a stretch, there may be some sort of evaluation beforehand as well. There is no reason to believe the system isn't evolving constantly internally. I have no doubt that it will adapt again to take care of the hue problem once it gets a handle on whats going on. How will it do so? By delegating the job to the MWSPB. It's really not evil, its just not very human

[whitecloud]

I just read some comment on RC regarding the current episode, and i sorta agree on it on the theme that psycho pass season 2 in general will be handling and about our current antagonist, kirito, what do you think?

" kamui by the looks of things so far could be labelled as an idealist in the same manner as Sibyl and its creators, he was disappointed–almost enraged–that Akane could not see what he was trying to accomplish. Bringing down Psycho Pass hues and eliminating the potential for latent criminals? What’s not to like? That by itself already separates Kamui from Makishima as the latter simply wanted to test individuals for the entertainment, whereas Kamui appears to actually be trying to change the world.

Of course Kamui’s method (currently unknown) of allowing for manipulable hues and Sibyl System invisibility on the surface seems to mesh with Akane’s apparent set of morals, but things ain’t that simple. Akane is willing to rehabilitate in the confines of Sibyl, making use of facilities (i.e. prisons) to house people until (what can be guessed) those incarcerated are returned to a “normal” state of mind. Kamui on the other hand appears to have the idea that those with clear hues are safe, no matter what crimes they committed before obtaining that hue; it explains his anger at Akane for being ready to shoot Akira, even though Akira had already detonated yet another bomb. So far IMO this looks to be a comparison between the growing debate/criticism on rehabilitation over strict incarceration/death penalty. Both Akane and Kamui appear to value human life and favour rehabilitation, but Akane as mentioned has limits to her goodwill; Kamui looks to take a more radical stance. If this argument holds up, it turns Psycho Pass from what makes Sibyl so bad (Season 1′s focus) into what can make Sibyl good (i.e. what it can prevent)."

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

But it does make exceptions, revealing itself to Akane is a good example of that. Also, you're making a very strong assumption that adding brains is the only way for Sybil to expand itself; as far as I can see when there is a case of a criminally asymptotic individual, he is added to the system. Even that seems to be a stretch, there may be some sort of evaluation beforehand as well. There is no reason to believe the system isn't evolving constantly internally. I have no doubt that it will adapt again to take care of the hue problem once it gets a handle on whats going on. How will it do so? By delegating the job to the MWSPB. It's really not evil, its just not very human

Actually I agree that adding more brains isn't the only way for it evolve which is why I said that. It's Sibyl however who doesn't believe that hence why it has continued desperately to point of breaking it's own rules to go after criminally asymptotic persons like Makishima. And yes, while it did make an exception towards Akane that only happened due it's existence was being threaten. It's wasn't because suddenly gained a conscious or realized it's mistakes. Akane is nothing more than tool to Sibyl so it can better learned understand how manipulate people. Akane herself isn't blind to this fact which why is she harbors no hopes (or at least much as we know) for the system to reform it's twisted ego. She just does what she can to with the lot she been dealt with.

Also as far as narrative has been concerned, it actually does paint Sibyl as evil/corrupted (even going as far as to have it laughing outright maliciously), but in different way than Makishima. If anything it's God-complex makes it very human.

[AvianWing]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Actually I agree that adding more brains isn't the only way for it evolve which is why I said that. It's Sibyl however who doesn't believe that hence why it has continued desperately to point of breaking it's own rules to go after criminally asymptotic persons like Makishima. And yes, while it did make an exception towards Akane that only happened due it's existence was being threaten. It's wasn't because suddenly gained a conscious or realized it's mistakes. Akane is nothing more than tool to Sibyl so it can better learned understand how manipulate people. Akane herself isn't blind to this fact which why is she harbors no hopes (or at least much as we know) for the system to reform it's twisted ego. She just does what she can to with the lot she been dealt with.

Also as far as narrative has been concerned, it actually does paint Sibyl as evil/corrupted (even going as far as to have it laughing outright maliciously), but in different way than Makishima. If anything it's God-complex makes it very human.

I personally think that Sibyl is indeed pretty rigid and more machine than human, and it is limited by its incapability to adapt on the fly. I also think that it's merely an exercise of cost versus benefit. Since we're at the focal center of MWPSB, we're constantly at the center of action. If the other inspectors are shown to be so incompetent to the exceptions, it probably has occurred very infrequently. The MWPSB also seem to be the only law enforcement in the area, and there seems to be very few of them, so Sibyl has, in some sense, imposed order without having to dedicate that much resource. There have been far more examples of police brutality based on much more subjective criteria, or outright corruption, in the real world.

Other than the evil laugh at the end, which is strangely out of place. How exactly is the Sibyl system evil? I haven't really seen it take outright malicious action against humanity. It has been running the society on the basis that it would optimize it. Of course, the aptitude test may not be very good, and the allocation of human resources may be faulty. Ideally, a merit based system would be optimum, but the real world is more about business connection/networking than the inherent ability or will to perform the job.

Of course, the Sibyl system can be subject to change, so there's that.

[Iron Maw]

I guess you're right that calling it evil might be going a little too far, but it no longer truly has the interest of the welfare humans in Japan now that it has developed a will of sorts. It will always take actions to maintain it's own authority over the lives of it's charges, be it MWPSB or the citizens. So things like Kagari essentially being jailed when he was 5 or MWPSB's inefficiency will continue to happen. And it doesn't have to worry about the threat of revolutions or removal unlike most corrupt leaders of institutions or countries to keep it in line.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by AvianWing

Not sure if that's a fair thing to say about Makishima, lol. Sure he's a psychopath, but I doubt he's really just bored, at least according to Kogami's interpretation of his character near the end of season 1. Despite all his narcissism, Makishima's beliefs actually align quite well with the individualism of the Western ideal. Compared to Kamui, who appears to care too much about an individual even if he just blew up a few people. While Kamui may be a nicer guy, I'm sure most people would want to put a bullet in the bomber's head the moment he pressed that button.

Strangely enough, I actually don't have too much of a problem with Sibyl judgement system now that I've given some thoughts to it. It is essentially a computer. Find bugs/errors/exceptions to the system. Patch it by extracting the brain and understanding the exception. Rinse and repeat. The MWPSB Inspectors are just executing the orders given by Sibyl, which means they're pretty much ineffective since Sibyl is unable to understand this error in the first place, and that's why Enforcers are utilized, and also why Akane is so valued by Sibyl that they're willing to let her live. That's also why Mika is pretty much the worst inspector there is. Akane tries to understand her Enforcers and utilize them to their potential. Ginoza in season 1 is pretty much a dog keeper that, despite not trying to understand them, still let them do their thing. Mika openly rejects any input given by the enforcer.

I actually didn't completely agree with Kogami's estimation of Makishima, but that's just me. And essentially, he was doing experiments with people to basically see what would happen. It was his own personal experiment that he did to appease his own curiosity. Despite everything, at the heart of that is a boredom for the way things currently were, and that he wanted to do something that would shake things up. He was an anarchist, but not really for the people's sake, but simply for his own amusement. He basically just wanted to see what would happen.

Kamui, as another comment brought up, reminds me of Sybil. That episode with Makishima talking the the Sybil android chief, is basically what you would kind of get if Kamui and Makishima talked to each other. Kamui believes that what he's doing is for the betterment of all and he is so proud and wrapped up in what he's done that he thinks it's plain common sense to agree with him and is outraged and hurt when Akane doesn't see the "good" he's doing and the "truth" in it. It was very similar to how Sybil explained how "great" the system is, and how Makishima, being one of them, should understand, and should join with them. And Makishima could really care less, that's not what he was about and never was.

I see what you're saying about Sybil, but I could never take the system seriously again after the whole "psycho brains in a jar" reveal. It was so out there and ridiculous that it almost changed my entire perception of the show when it was revealed in the first season, and if not for the strong final act with Makishima and the Division 1 team, I would have come away from the first season pretty disappointed.

[Fellen]

I noticed something interesting this episode. The holo that Kamui used matched a girl that died on an airplane accident and there's that scene in the opening with Togane and then it goes to the airplane in a really weird and menacing way. So is there a connection or am I just reading too deeply into this.

[Dark Wing]

well there is a simple way to put it. The system isn't evil it just doesn't care about anything other then staining it's own existence.

[GDB]

That's Urobuchi's stock antagonist. Kyuubei, Sibyl, Helheim. All antagonists that lack the emotional spectrum necessary for a true moral code and act solely on logical instinct.

[GDiddy]

As much as I adore Ko, I seriously hope that this series isn't going to spend too long on Akane still apparently mourning him. Or is it that she's emulating him?

Also, Mika's role in a nutshell:

Mika: SHUT UP GINOZA YOU ARE A LOSER AND A MAN!!

Yayoi: You should listen to him since he was an Inspector..

Mika: Yayoi-saaaaaaaaan.... But NOPE. HE SUCKS AND IS A LOSER AND IS A MAN THEREFORE F**K HIM. GO SIBYL!


Otherwise...good episode. Can't wait to see what Kamui does.

I really like Akane and Togane's chemistry....though

Spoiler:

pretty obvious that Togane is SOMETHING...either working for Kaisei the Cyborg Granny, or is tied to Ko somehow or IS Ko.....

[GDB]

Originally Posted by GDiddy

Mika: Yayoi-saaaaaaaaan.... But NOPE. HE SUCKS AND IS A LOSER AND IS A MAN THEREFORE F**K HIM. GO SIBYL!

To be fair, it's more like he's an Enforcer who isn't Yayoi. And possibly he's a person who isn't Yayoi.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by GDB

That's Urobuchi's stock antagonist. Kyuubei, Sibyl, Helheim. All antagonists that lack the emotional spectrum necessary for a true moral code and act solely on logical instinct.

Makishima was kinda like that too, but Kamui does seem to have emotions. It would be interesting if this season tried to explore the possibility of Sibyl developing emotions.

[Revolutionist]

So I just got done watching season 1 (can't believe I missed out on this show when it aired), and immediately started with season 2. So far things look good, but I miss Kougami...hell I miss Kagari and the old man too. These new enforces just aren't doing it for me.

[MiLOzz]

It's the 2nd episode and I'm seeing another scene recycled from the 1st season. Akane walks in on a guy in a gym and he's kicking dummy robot's ass, and smokes right after that. C'mon it's just like Shinya Kogami. The guy even displays similar characteristics to Kogami: cool and collected and can kick some ass.

Akane's second hand smoking was a nice touch though. Perhaps it serves as a memory of her former partner (Kogami) and helps to keep it cool. Kind of cute when to think about it.

Hopefully the music will step it up because so far it was only servisable but nothing more. Season 1 had a more engaging and memorable tracks even by episode 2. It was surprising to find out Yugo Kanno is still a composer for this.

The new girl Mika is a... catalyst to a younger audience I guess? I was wondering why was she was even introduced to the series, as it seemed like a step back. She is a rookie inspector who has yet to learn a lot of things and become an adult. Everyone kinda shares wisdom with her and gives her life lessons. A "coming of age" type of thing. But a similar set up was already played out with Akane at the very beginning of S1, except it was less typical and obvious. And may I say Mika doesn't have half of charisma or personality what Akane had back when she was a rookie.