Japan Earthquake and Tsunami (March 11, 2011)

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

From Japan Times:

Yeah, well now we have a NEW mystery, one that's even more SCARY.... If the radiation levels are dropping, WHERE HAS IT GONE?! IS IT HIDING? MAYBE IT'S _BEHIND YOU_!

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

Natural gas is already delivered to homes through underground pipes and maintenance can be done during the monthly meter inspection.
Fuel cell system has very little moving parts so down time through mechanical failure is greatly reduced.

Cogeneration is nice. Though there is one drawback to it if I understood the electricity problematic and peak demand statistics correctly.
It cogenerates heat when it generates electricity. However, in the summer months, usually a period when electricity demand peaks because of the air conditioning systems in use, you do not exactly need that heat. Its surely a good thing in the colder months, but it won't help solving the current situation of electricity shortage and forseeable peak demand problematic in the summer.

[Guardian Enzo]

That's the problem with fuel cell. It's a fascinating technology that may very well be a huge factor, long-term. But the Japanese need power in the grid right now. Be it nuclear, coal, natural gas, oil, yak dung... They need something they can add to the grid immediately (or as close as possible) because once summer gets here, things are going to be a nightmare unless they add capacity. And even as is, the economy is losing billions of dollars in lost productivity every day this situation persists.

[Ithekro]

If there was a way to contain and convert the heat to electricity during the summer, than it might be practical. Or even some other paractical use for the heat since it does you littl good during a hot summer.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

From Japan Times:

Can't these "reporters" just stop with that comparison. An x-ray scan is of evenly distributed radiation over a large area, while certain isotopes concentrate at certain places in the body. The Sv-metric does not sufficiently regard this difference. And hence the comparison is like apples and oranges. Besides, if they are at it they should use the correct metrics... Sv/h is not the same as Sv or man-Sv.

I have yet to find an unbiased article, its either doomed up or played down.

[JuGG]

In my opinion, the whole radiation debate is so tricky and full of ambiguity, sensationalism, and down-play that it's pretty impossible to gauge the situation accurately. I can only hope that it's not enough to cause enough harm and that western media is just blowing the situation out of proportion.

And I really wish that other countries would let Japan do what they feel best; we should be there for support and assistance as much as possible but not stick our nose in the decision making.

Of course, that's very unlikely to happen.

[Green²]

"BREAKING NEWS: Plutonium detected in soil at Fukushima nuke plant
NEWS ADVISORY: Not known which reactor plutonium came from: agency
BREAKING NEWS: Plutonium detection suggests certain damage to fuel rods: agency

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/"

Reactor 3 is the only reactor there that uses MOX fuel, as we were previously told. Surprisingly not even an mention of this throughout the entire following article; but are presented with:

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/81609.html

"The government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said it remains unknown which reactor plutonium came from and that TEPCO and the science ministry will strengthen monitoring on the environment both in the plant and outside of a 20-kilometer exclusion zone set by the government."

That part of it being unknown would be classified as bullshit, unless there now more than one reactor there that is using MOX fuel.

Edit:

Morning coffee cup had also indicated that plutonium is also a byproduct of irradiated uranium.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

Natural gas is already delivered to homes through underground pipes and maintenance can be done during the monthly meter inspection.
Fuel cell system has very little moving parts so down time through mechanical failure is greatly reduced.

Has a cost analysis been done by a reputable group to show the long term or short term monetary benefits of doing this ?

In the end everything boils down to money... and money can be a lot like water in a leaky bucket when we are talking about electrical power generation.

Originally Posted by JuGG

In my opinion, the whole radiation debate is so tricky and full of ambiguity, sensationalism, and down-play that it's pretty impossible to gauge the situation accurately. I can only hope that it's not enough to cause enough harm and that western media is just blowing the situation out of proportion.

And I really wish that other countries would let Japan do what they feel best; we should be there for support and assistance as much as possible but not stick our nose in the decision making.

Of course, that's very unlikely to happen.

All of this reminds me of the fight against polio when a heated and ugly war between Jonas Salk and Dr. Albert Sabin

Salk developed the first working polio vaccine but Sabin was against Salk's efforts because it wasn't elegant and it also served as a diversion of money from Sabin's own research which was slower.

Salk produced a vaccine... when it was most needed

Sabin eventually got his working and out the door a few years later.

Sabin of course wasn't happy... he felt that someone with brute force and financial muscle pushed him and his elegant research out the way.

Compared to this whole Nuclear power debate.

Simply put.


JAPAN NEEDS POWER NOW !

THEY NEED POWER NOW THAT CAN WARD OFF THE COST OF FOSSIL ENERGY.

Every time some activity occurs in the middle east... electricity costs goes up (in my country it does). Stable and cheap electricity is one of the critical needs of Japan.

Japan is one of the (if not the first) most technologically advanced nation(s) in the world. It has got to have juice.

Nuclear power gives the results that we need now... just like Salk produced a vaccine... even tho it wasn't elegant.

When the researches develop their fusion and alternative systems a few decades from now, we will be waiting... but for now... the anti-Nuclear argument is tiresome.

I say to those groups... stop arguing and give your money and group donations to the Fusion research teams and work silently to it.

[cf18]

Originally Posted by Haak

This guy is awesome:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12860842

This guy is an idiot. Just because the number with shortened life of the 800k "Liquidator" is impossible to confirm, it is far from 0. This kind of liar piece will do more damage to nuclear industry then the green peace doomsday type.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

Has a cost analysis been done by a reputable group to show the long term or short term monetary benefits of doing this ?

In the end everything boils down to money... and money can be a lot like water in a leaky bucket when we are talking about electrical power generation.

To some sense true but the anti-nuclear movement is getting strong and I believe resistance will become much greater as the day passes and the immediate problem settles down, leaving us with fossil fuel power plants as the only viable option for centralized power but as I had posted earlier this also has 60% power loss during transmission so it is not an ideal solution either.
Economy wise a single Ene-farm unit costs 2 million yen(This includes profit for the Tokyo Gas) service time is estimated to be 10 years and is able to save 70,000 yen per year. I believe the price can be lowered to around 1.5 million yen through volume discount.With 500,000 residence adopting the system it will cost 750 billion yen or 9.3 billion dollars US and will be able to generate 500MW of electricity.
If TEPCO were to pay half and the other half through special 0% governmental loan to the home owners then I believe it will be break even for all parties.

[Jeffry2009]

Here's a cool video recently uploaded by a group of Kamen Rider cosplayers in Hong Kong taken last March 28. The group held a donation drive to help Japan in this times of crisis. The video even comes with a heart warming music.

The video features cosplayers in Kamen Rider costumes like Ichigo and Nigo The Next, Den-O and New Den-O, Double, Skull, Hibiki, Faiz, and Imagins Momotaros and Kintaros helping each other gather donations in the streets of Hong Kong.

[Tri-ring]

Recent events not directly connected to Fukushima Dai-Ichi.

High school baseball unifies tsunami-hit Japan

I believe this was a nice piece explaining the passion towards baseball in Japan even during hard times and gives a glimpse of the Japanese psyche towards sports.

Disaster aid puts new face on U.S. military in Japan

Again the contribution the US military is giving to restore Japan.

All's not well at Tokyo Disneyland after quake

The hardship that is taking a toll .

TEPCO apologizes again and again

TEPCO dismissed important scientific evidence in planning nuclear plant's defense

TEPCO president reportedly sick amid troubles at nuclear plant

And the repeating blunders that TEPCO exposed leading to;

Nationalization of Tokyo Electric Power an option, says minister

Today was suppose to be the newly graduate join the company ceremony for TEPCO which was canceled due to the present situation, I wonder what the CEO's speech would have been towards the newly employees if they initiated as scheduled.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

The hardship that is taking a toll .

TEPCO apologizes again and again

TEPCO dismissed important scientific evidence in planning nuclear plant's defense

TEPCO president reportedly sick amid troubles at nuclear plant

And the repeating blunders that TEPCO exposed leading to;

Nationalization of Tokyo Electric Power an option, says minister

Today was suppose to be the newly graduate join the company ceremony for TEPCO which was canceled due to the present situation, I wonder what the CEO's speech would have been towards the newly employees if they initiated as scheduled.

This underlies *my* only real problem with nuclear power -- the idiots who make the "management" decisions are the same idiots who run harmless widget companies where terrible decisions only make broken widgets.

But I'd be telling the new-hires ... "congratulations, you may be on your way to becoming government employees and bureaucrats."

[ChainLegacy]

I'm having trouble discerning what's true and what's not regarding the nuclear plants in Japan... on the one hand you have sensationalized news reports, on the other you have official reports downplaying the problem... I'm not sure which one is true, since I can see incentive for both parties to say what they've been saying (news want to boost ratings, officials want to prevent panic/economic repercussions), and since I have no expertise in the area the cold facts are pretty difficult to weed out.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

I'm having trouble discerning what's true and what's not regarding the nuclear plants in Japan... on the one hand you have sensationalized news reports, on the other you have official reports downplaying the problem... I'm not sure which one is true, since I can see incentive for both parties to say what they've been saying (news want to boost ratings, officials want to prevent panic/economic repercussions), and since I have no expertise in the area the cold facts are pretty difficult to weed out.

The best sites I've seen for non-biased, thorough reporting are the IAEA website and the BBC. IAEA is more about facts, measurements and simple analysis - BBC is giving more interpretation, which is always dangerous, but their experts seem pretty knowledgeable and not prone to hyperbole.

What appear to be facts:

Spoiler for Long Summary:

- Reactors 4-6 were not operational at the time of the disaster and while there were serious worries with the spent fuel ponds, none of these appear to be a major worry now.
- Fresh water has replaced seawater for cooling at all reactors and fuel pools.
- Radiation in seawater has dropped considerably. Airborne radiation counts immediately surrounding the plant have been slowly declining. Airborne radiation counts in areas farther outlying have also been dropping, but were never high enough to pose a health risk.
- There was a spike in radiation (I-131) in tap water a week ago, probably due to rain. In Tokyo it exceeded the Japanese limit for infants for a two day period. It is now undetectable in Tokyo water and has dropped to safe levels in all prefectures closer to the plant as far as I know.
- Minute levels of plutonium were discovered in soil outside the plant earlier this week. There is usually Pu in soil as a holdover from nuclear weapons testing. These were at the same concentration, but the isotopic nature suggests two of the soil deposits detected probably came from the reactors.
- Pu is a by-product of fission reactions at all plants. Detection indicates a partial meltdown of at least some fuel rods, which was already suspected. It could also have come from spent fuel pools, however.
- The levels of Pu discovered are minute. Due to it's nature (Pu is very heavy) it's virtually impossible for Pu to escape the immediate vicinity of the plant, even should a larger release occur. However, Pu has an extremely long half-life and is very dangerous if inhaled so this needs to be watched closely.
- The biggest problem at the moment is that due to the huge amounts of water used to cool the reactors and the damage to the outer containment (and possibly the pressure vessels) from the hydrogen explosions two weeks ago, highly radioactive water is pooling in the basements of the reactor buildings and a trench outside them.
- This forces the workers to balance the needs of cooling the reactors with not wanting to overflow the trench, and to remove the radioactive water from the buildings. This water makes it difficult for them to try and finish repairs to electrical systems and cooling systems needed to resolve the crisis in the long-term.
- Lots of data about food testing - too much to summarize here. Big worries are about leafy vegetables and milk, and all sales and export of said from Fukushima and surrounding prefectures has been halted.

In summary, the situation is very serious with the removal of the water being the biggest current problem. Pu contamination is probably overblown as a potential health problem. Power is on, but restoration of full cooling is hampered by the pooling water. It's less serious than a week ago and the odds of major radioactive releases decrease daily, but a permanent solution remains a long way off. Most likely earlier speculations of a partial meltdown at at least one reactor were correct. At this point there appears to be no direct health risk whatsoever outside the 30 KM zone around the plant. Biggest long-term potential risk to people outside that area is probably contaminated food.

[haegar]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...d_dest=Twitter

Reuters on Tepco and NISA security precautions for Fukushima plant ...

[-Sho-]

Let's say it , no one can't control this situation...
Reactor 1,2,3 are again damaged...

[Guardian Enzo]

What does "again damaged" mean? They were already damaged - that's not news. They're no more or less damaged then they were 10 days ago. It's just a question of the authorities trying to figure out what the damage is, which is very difficult when you can't just walk in and take a look.

[Random32]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

I'm having trouble discerning what's true and what's not regarding the nuclear plants in Japan... on the one hand you have sensationalized news reports, on the other you have official reports downplaying the problem... I'm not sure which one is true, since I can see incentive for both parties to say what they've been saying (news want to boost ratings, officials want to prevent panic/economic repercussions), and since I have no expertise in the area the cold facts are pretty difficult to weed out.

I would trust the facts of IAEA. JAIF releases a status update on the reactors every once in a while, I would trust these too. The best place for interpretation of these facts is BBC imho.

Originally Posted by haegar

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...d_dest=Twitter

Reuters on Tepco and NISA security precautions for Fukushima plant ...

*facepalm*
then again, expected. industrial accidents happen this way. some engineers find potential problems, people higher up that can allow them to be fixed don't, for the sake of profit, or even worse, face. eventually the potential problem drops the potential part and becomes a real problem and no one wants to take blame.

name an accident, it probably follows this. BP Oil Spill, etc. They knew potential problems existed and they weren't fixed.

"again damaged"
eh?

Containment Vessel Integrity for 1 and 3 are "Not Damaged" and 2 is "Damage and Leakage Suspected"
Its been this way for a long while now.

[SaintessHeart]

That is the problem of self-regulation. The people who control the rules are the senior executives, not the engineers.