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View Poll Results: Your favorite character tied with discussion | |||
Tohsaka Rin | 104 | 24.41% | |
Matou Sakura | 20 | 4.69% | |
Emiya Shirou | 18 | 4.23% | |
Ilyasviel "Ilya" von Einzbern | 37 | 8.69% | |
Saber | 153 | 35.92% | |
Rider | 23 | 5.40% | |
Lancer | 4 | 0.94% | |
Archer | 53 | 12.44% | |
Caster | 11 | 2.58% | |
Berserker | 3 | 0.70% | |
Voters: 426. You may not vote on this poll |
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2010-07-16, 00:20 | Link #301 |
"Hey, Isaac?"
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How to put this...
I went into HF not really caring about Sakura one way or the other. I came out of it still ambivalent towards her, but now because I had feelings of opposite extremes that canceled each other out. I felt... genuinely disgusted at how she'd been treated, I truly pitied her, and I had a new respect for her ability to even... geez, stand up and walk around like a normal person after all the crap she's been through. But this was now married to a brutal, soul-crushing depression that emerged whenever I looked at her, and the knowledge that she had been (albeit against her own will or even without her knowledge) responsible for the deaths or corruptions of several characters that I liked just as much or more than her. I appreciated Heaven's Feel, and I'd recommend anyone read it because it's a damn powerful story. But I don't know if I can say I enjoyed it, really. Well, okay, I enjoyed the action scenes because they were great. And not that any of this discussion is relevant because I voted for Illya anyway. She's just so fun, how could I not? I love her for the same reason I loved Arcueid in Tsukihime; she makes minimal sense, does whatever she feels like doing, and she combines cute and horrifying in one seamless little package while still being so cheerful about it. I wish she were my crazy homunculus little-big adoptive sister. |
2010-07-16, 10:32 | Link #302 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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Hang on, so you're complaining about Sakura being responsible for the deaths of other characters, even though she had no knowledge of it, and yet you're giving Ilya (who goes out to kill Shirou (amongst others), and who actually knows what Sakura is doing in HF (from the very beginning, before Shirou even knows that she's a magus) and chooses not to stop it because she knows it'll hurt Shirou) a free pass?
Do I sense a certain amount of hyprocrisy here? |
2010-07-16, 10:40 | Link #303 | |
Onii-chan~
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2010-07-16, 10:57 | Link #304 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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I have no problem with Ilya, personally. I just have a problem with the idea of someone blaming Sakura for her entirely involutary actions whilst ignoring the fact that Ilya was aware of what was happening from the beginning and could easily have stopped it if she'd chosen to (but it meant killing Shirou, so she didn't want to do it unless you get too few Ilya points). Not to mention all the brutal deaths Ilya is responsible for (entirely intentionally) in Fate. And she doesn't even have the excuse of being corrupted by Angra Mainyu and quite clearly not sane when she does it, either.
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2010-07-16, 11:35 | Link #305 | |
Onii-chan~
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Sure Ilya killed people (which I don't really remember), but the rules of the Heaven's Feel state that no bystander can witness and live, which justifies it, as she would not murder senselessly; Sakura, however, did. When I think of Sakura, I think of hatred for Tokiomi; Ilya, I think of despair of losing her family and being convinced that her father never really loved her. One was deliberate, the other a huge misunderstanding/ploy.
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2010-07-16, 12:01 | Link #306 |
Test Drive
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You realize you're talking about characters people like, right? A certain amount of hyprocrisy is expected. When you like a character, you tend to be more forgiving of their flaws. Besides, in the end it all comes down to personal opinion anyway, right? So is there really a need to call anyone a hypocrite? They have a favorite character that they like, so it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong since in the end it's all personal opinion.
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2010-07-16, 12:09 | Link #307 | ||
Casting a spell on you...
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2010-07-16, 12:28 | Link #309 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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You know, I don't like the idea of judging characters by their fans, which is very fortunate for my opinion of Ilya. I don't hate her in any way, but I can't for the life of me see how you can forgive everything she did and still hate Sakura. Quote:
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But I'm not claiming that he should like Sakura more than Ilya. I'm simply pointing out that his arguments are inconsistent. If he hates Sakura for what she did, he should also hate Ilya. If he doesn't, then he's a hypocrite, by definition. |
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2010-07-16, 12:33 | Link #310 | |
Test Drive
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I don't know, maybe I'm suggesting something silly. It just seems strange to me to call someone a hypocrite based on their personal opinion of something.
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2010-07-16, 12:46 | Link #311 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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Well, if he comes out and admits that he is applying different standards to Ilya and Sakura, then fine. Like you say, that's his choice. But he's claiming that Sakura is worse, and giving some absurd justification of that, so I'm tearing his 'justifications' apart.
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2010-07-16, 12:48 | Link #312 |
Test Drive
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But again, in the end, isn't it all just a matter of personal opinion? So really, "tearing his justifications apart" solves nothing in the end because he still likes the character he likes, regardless of what you or anyone else says on the matter.
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2010-07-16, 12:53 | Link #313 | |
Onii-chan~
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Both Emiya Kiritsugu and Irisviel von Einzbern are dead, and one had to kill the other.
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2010-07-16, 12:54 | Link #314 | ||
Casting a spell on you...
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That is a rather odd way of looking at this conversation. You say that having a personal opinion cannot be looked at as right or wrong, but that's what both guys are doing. This doesn't solve anything anyway, because its apparent that there will be no agreement on both sides. Quote:
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2010-07-16, 12:55 | Link #315 | |
Test Drive
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2010-07-16, 13:08 | Link #317 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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It's not mentioned in the game. However, Rin never talks about her at all, and someone found a Japanese wiki entry that says that she died of an illness prior to the game. Most likely, when FSN was written, Nasu just assumed "well, Rin's mother is dead", and then only later did he invent her backstory (for Fate/Zero). So, he had to hand-wave her out of existence in case anyone asked why Rin had dumped her in a care home and forgotten about her....
Not that it matters much, at least in Sakura's case, because even if Aoi were alive Sakura wouldn't be allowed to see her, and if she did she couldn't really do much with her. Likely it'd just make Sakura depressed to see her mother like that. Plus, her mother ended up in a wheelchair like that because of Kariya, who was attempting to save her, so knowing Sakura she'd find a way to blame it on herself.... |
2010-07-16, 13:11 | Link #318 |
Casting a spell on you...
Graphic Designer
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Yep, its true. Besides, why would they pass up the chance for such drama when Sakura was saved? If she was just insane, having Sakura come back to her after all those years would probably be a step in the right direction of recovery...though I'm sure her hair and eye color would give Aoi a bit of a start.
Darn, that would have been really heartwarming. |
2010-07-16, 13:17 | Link #320 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 39
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I think it's implied that Aoi isn't going to recover, though, even prior to her death. She would still recognise Sakura, however (well, unless she was surprised at how much she'd changed...), although she'd most likely wonder why the hell she hadn't visited for over ten years.... Quote:
And, really, if Rider counts, so does Berserker. |
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