Anime Saimoe Tournament 2011 (Japan)

[KholdStare]

Originally Posted by Aya Reiko

I think the mods really need to start putting their feet down. And all this ISML ef'ery needs to come to and immediate and abrupt halt. If you want to talk about that one, take it to that thread.

tl;dr version: GET. BACK. ON. TOPIC. OR ELSE.

Uh, discussion about other saimoe are allowed if it's done for the purpose of comparison, which is what is happening here. I agree that we have exhausted the discussion about ISML here, but that doesn't mean you cannot talk about anything but AST in this thread.

[MartianMage]

All this rage about PMMM domination... it's funny... Is it so unthinkable that people actually like the characters and not just the series?

Other MadoMagis winning undeservely and just riding on series popularity? lol seriously the argument can also go the other way because for me who actually like Mami and Kyouko can look at all this rage as "hating simply because of the series and dismissing the moe value of said character."

I just don't get why some people are so fixated on which series these characters belongs to. I thought the point of this contest is to look at the character themselves and not the series so why does it matter so much if the finalists came from the same series?

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato

All this rage about PMMM domination... it's funny... Is it so unthinkable that people actually like the characters and not just the series?

I'll take consolation in a Kyouko vs Mami final.

[wontaek]

For those who think PMMM girls aren't popular with ISML voters, my primary response is I am going to serve you heaps of crows next year. Simply stated, if you hold simple Homura vs Tenshi match in ISML Voting place for 24 hours right now, I think Homura will win.

[Hachiko]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Explaining what I personally find entertaining is of course going to be "biased".

My point is that some of us like what's going on in Saimoe 2011 for "natural" reasons, as you correctly point out.

Wouldn't it be more productive to allow us to enjoy those results, here on the Saimoe 2011 thread, rather than fill the thread up with endless negativity?




I disagree. He's presenting a philosophy on how one should approach moe contests. I appreciate and respect that philosophy, but I don't have to share it.

I personally don't think it's invalid to factor series favoritism into who you want to see win in moe contests. To me, it's not downright "abhorrent".

It's no different, really, than wanting to see players from your favorite sports team do well in individual player awards, and such things are common place amongst pro sports fans.




Then I wouldn't like it, of course. Or I would feel "meh" about it. But once the dust settles, I'd let the people pleased by the results enjoy them.

If Kanade wins ISML 2011, then good for her fans. I'll find it boring, but good for her fans.




Kyouko didn't curbstomp Kuroneko. That was an extremely close match.

Sayaka looked to be losing against Haqua before she finally pulled it out. Sure, the vote totals told a different story due to fake votes being thrown out, but following the Sayaka/Haqua match was intense for me.

Hachiko briefly called Ika as the winner over Mami. That was a close match, with an intense finish.

I haven't seen curbstomps here in the Final 8. I've seen close, exciting matches, with quirky events (all the fakery in Madoka vs. Sayaka), and a nice upset (Erica over Lotte).

And to me, that makes the series domination much less problematic.

Also, I myself am glad that Erica is in the semifinals, for the same "B" reason that you are, as I wrote here.




Yeah, and at least some PMMM girls are getting "scratched".


Edit:



Moe contests are partly popularity contests to begin with. You're more likely to find a character "moe" if you already like her (him).




I have yet to see anybody provide exact quantifiable measurements for moe. Without such measures, how moe a character is in comparison to another character is largely, if not entirely, subjective.




Sure. But then, given how modern anime tends to be character-driven, I would say that if an anime series is popular it's probably due (at least in part) to its characters being popular as well (in other words, popular characters help to create a popular show, not necessarily the other way around). There are exceptions, but they are rare, in my experience. At least within Japan, Madoka Magica does not appear to be an exception.

Excellent points you bring up. As I said before in my calling of the race, it was going to be Scenario 1: Ika would be a better match, but then it became Scenario 2: the rush had not taken place yet. The rush was well-orchestrated, and it looks like it will happen again.

Erica now has the hopes of the non-PMMM voters. The vote totals for her may go off the charts.

[stormtrooper]

Originally Posted by Hachiko

Excellent points you bring up. As I said before in my calling of the race, it was going to be Scenario 1: Ika would be a better match, but then it became Scenario 2: the rush had not taken place yet. The rush was well-orchestrated, and it looks like it will happen again.

Erica now has the hopes of the non-PMMM voters. The vote totals for her may go off the charts.

But I'm not sure if there will be a lot of non-PMMM voters to overthrow Kyouko. The PMMM supporters will probably vote a lot in the last hour because they will make it look that Erica will get the lead in the middle hours and lose it in the last hour. I don't know what strategy they will use this time. I'm just guessing.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Ichuki

Madoka wise I feel like it's faction outnumbers the antis thats why they seem so dominating actually

I noticed that Kyouko's votes (657) on her match vs Kuroneko (568) is higher than Ika-chan's best votes (612) as well.
If 612 is the best that opposing voters can give then..

Anyway, hoping Madoka (my last favourite remaining ) can win this tournament,

[Team Rocket Elite]

Today's match: Erica Hartmann vs Sakura Kyouko

We're down to the last three matches. This one will determine the first character to reach the final match. Erica has had an amazing run. I didn't think she would even get past Mine Riko in Round 1 or Lingyin in Round 2 or Kanade in Round 4 or Astarotte in Round 5. Somehow, she just kept winning and winning and now she's in the semifinals. Now, I think this witch had finally met her match. Like the other Puella Magi, Kyouko is exceptionally powerful and specializes in hunting witches. The number of votes Kyouko has shown to be able to get in a single match is far higher than what Erica has shown. Erica, who let Suzuha get within 2 votes of her, should not be able to take out Kyouko. It's going to be a all Puella Magi final.

Vote: Sakura Kyouko
Prediction: Sakura Kyouko

[Triple_R]

It's been a nice run for Erica, one that made Saimoe 2011 much more interesting, and one that fans of her and/or her anime can be proud of.

However, the clock is about to strike midnight on this particular Cinderella, and midnight is when Kyouko likes to come out to play.

Go Kyouko Go!

[stormtrooper]

I guess this will be Erica's last match. She had a good showing thus far and winning a lot of hard matches. She has won matches with very small leads and big leads too. Kyouko will win this but Erica might try to fight.

[Hachiko]

Originally Posted by stormtrooper

But I'm not sure if there will be a lot of non-PMMM voters to overthrow Kyouko. The PMMM supporters will probably vote a lot in the last hour because they will make it look that Erica will get the lead in the middle hours and lose it in the last hour. I don't know what strategy they will use this time. I'm just guessing.

You never know in a tournament like this. Still, I think Erica will put up a good fight.

[Tainaka]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato

All this rage about PMMM domination... it's funny... Is it so unthinkable that people actually like the characters and not just the series?

Other MadoMagis winning undeservely and just riding on series popularity? lol seriously the argument can also go the other way because for me who actually like Mami and Kyouko can look at all this rage as "hating simply because of the series and dismissing the moe value of said character."

I just don't get why some people are so fixated on which series these characters belongs to. I thought the point of this contest is to look at the character themselves and not the series so why does it matter so much if the finalists came from the same series?

-bows down-

This is what I was getting at before. Glad someone understands! Judge the character, not the series. Maybe people do, you never know... but I'm certain the majority vote the character because of love for the series :/ Even though I happen to like the route this tourney took, I'd like if this was an actual "moe" tournament

[RJ TAYLER]

Originally Posted by Hachiko

You never know in a tournament like this. Still, I think Erica will put up a good fight.

Heck another blonde pulled off a stunner in the upset that was the 2004 final (against another similarly named blonde)!

[Hachiko]

Originally Posted by RJ TAYLER

Heck another blonde pulled off a stunner in the upset that was the 2004 final (against another similarly named blonde)!

Such is the sometimes-unpredictable nature that is the AST.

My odds today...
Erica Hartmann @ Strike Witches: <<エーリカ・ハルトマン＠ストライクウィッチーズ2>> 50-1
Kyouko Sakura @ Puella Magi Madoka Magica: <<佐倉杏子＠魔法少女まどか☆マギカ>> 1-5

Hachiko Predicts: Kyouko by >=200
Over/Under: 1000
Over

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

We could develop our own AnimeSuki Saimoe Tournament. Seriously, the posters here seem to do a better job of promoting AST (pictures, videos) than the AST people do themselves.

Hence my idea a numerous pages ago about a 10th aniversary tournament of some sort, with a world wide voting audience instead of being restricted to just Japan.

Originally Posted by jorez

Also, is it me or are there a lot of "if my character doesn't win, then the tournament is boring blah blah blah, I don't like mainstream characters or series fandom having a great time in a japanese popularity tournament" posts in the last 8 pages?

If that was the case, then I would have completely lost interest way early on.

As Overfunk said, the tournament's primary value is entertainment, with the problem stemming when a show that you don't care about gets WAY too dominant that year. This problem isn't just a 2011 thing, as this also happened in 2005 (while it may balance out depending on which title you like, it does become a problem to those not into Rozen Maiden) and the last two tournaments (Saki). The difference between those tournaments and 2011's tournaments: in those years, the backlash eventually hit, resulting in Nanoha defeating both of the remaining Rozen Maiden reps in 2005 and Saki reps being denied a spot in the finals. However, this year, Madoka Magica got way too dominant for the tournament's own good, resulting in four girls making the quarterfinals (with a Kyouko vs. Madoka/Mami final being pretty much guaranteed). Compared to 2004 (where an all-Ashita No Nadja finals had a lot to do with the tournament still being relatively unknown at the time) and 2008 (where Kagami and Tsukasa had to earn their spots in the finals against strong competitors in Nagisa and Hinagiku), an all-Madoka Magica finals this year is sadly going to be boring as a result of that over-dominance.

[Arkanis]

New tracker for those who are interested.

http://hankaku2.web.fc2.com/count/

[klare]

Kyouko winning is so predictable, will be interesting if Erica can prove us wrong

[Triple_R]

In pro sports, dominant teams create memorable eras, that become engrossing lore of the sport decades later.

The NY Yankees hold a certain aura and mystique due to how many World Series titles they've won over the course of their franchise history.

In pro hockey, the Montreal Canadiens were once a team of legendary domination, never going more than seven years between Stanley Cups, and with multiple 4/5 year Stanley Cup dynasty runs in their history. The rich culture of victory surrounding the team infused the NHL with that much more magic, pomp, and pageantry, shadows of which last to this day, but sadly start to fade.

Now the NHL is a league of parity, due to the Salary Cap, amongst other factors. It's more egalitarian, but it's also less magical. With less domination, there is less awe and wonder. No Wayne Gretzky stands astride like an immovable Colossus, and no insanely dominant Canadiens team captures the imagination and even forces rule changes because of just how great they are.


There is a certain child-like wonderment in watching dominant greatness on display. It's not necessarily boring, depending on how you look at it.

And when many previous attempts at domination fall through, it can be intriguing (and perhaps even rewarding) to watch an attempt finally succeed, against all the counter-attacks or anti-voting that can be mustard up.

10 years from so, Saki may well be forgotten amongst the saimoe followers of the day. I doubt that Madoka Magica will be.


Just putting out a counterargument to all the naysayers there. To each their own.

[Hachiko]

Spoiler for click image for music:

Early returns...

Spoiler for returns:

Kyouko Sakura 95
Erica Hartmann 63

Good start for the Red Ranger.

[Shmion]

2006 Group E (round 3 and 4):

Round 3
2006-10-04: Mikuru Asahina vs Alicia Florence (1179:879)
2006-10-05: Haruhi Suzumiya vs Yuki Nagato (991:1112)

Round 4
2006-10-14: Mikuru Asahina vs Yuki Nagato (859:944)

It's an interesting coincidence.