Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by taelrak

He's a bit naive though (or the writers wanted it to be too convenient). Even if a dictator dies and there is some period of peace and cooperation, it'll probably dissolve amidst power-gathering and backstabbing before the year is out. There's no such thing as perpetual peace. His so called "future" is merely the start of another cycle - all he did was displaced the starting point a bit, nothing more.

People's memories are short. One or two generations down the road, they might forget and shit might hit the fan again. And yet, the current situation is much better than what was happening before, when the world was split into three factions and there was a world war going on, with both the Chinese Federation and Britannia practicing subjugation of their own subjects.

That's why I think ultimately Lelouch succeeded in breaking the chain of hatred he set out to break way back in episode 5 of season 1. Although he changed his plan from world conquest to world domination and subsequent death - his journey must have had a great influence on him. Lelouch never thought that he can achieve permanent peace or some other such ideal - he said himself that he is not that naive. The rest is up to Suzaku and Nunnally (and incidentally, Ougi and Schneizel and Cornelia, too).

[Witacume]

Originally Posted by Lelouch71

All I have to say damn you Taniguichi for leaving it ambiguous. I hope he gives us some confirmation of Lelouch's fate. Whether he is dead, alive, or left to the fans interpretation. If he is alive, technically he is dead to the world and the people who care about him. He can't go back to Nunnally or Suzaku. Not to mention if he was immortal he will outlive them so it better if they think he is dead. This way if anything happens after Suzaku and Nunnally dies he can come back to make sure the world is still in order.

Either way it was a beautiful "death" and I like how Lelouch gave the torch to Suzaku. It was kind of like Kamina giving the torch to Simon.

and K

Spoiler for =x:

Kallen is yoko living on for the one she loved. XD

[Magin]

It is well known that the writers love to torture the viewers over whether a character is dead or alive when they give conclusions that allow you to draw your own

[lousylaus]

Originally Posted by Witacume

well nunnaly knows the truth so does Kallen.

about Suzaku?

Well now that you mention it, Nunally knows it so I guess that's true but I don't think Kallen knows unless I missed something.

[king12354]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Actually, considering what Lelouch said to Suzaku, it is very likely that Lelouch really wanted/expected to die.

However, I will agree with many people that there are just too many points that indicate Lelouch is alive:
-Nunally getting a glimpse of Lelouch's plan, simply by touching him (there is no way she would have guessed considering how she really thought he was a real demon). This is a huge indicator of immortal trait
-the said code immortality being activated upon death (which happened for CC and Charles)
-C.C. tone of speech on the carrier is absolutely not distant when she mentions lelouch, but really "directly".
-The title of the franchise and the second season label.

I would however point out that Lelouch's survival seems rather coincidental and/or not as planned, considering his speech and how he died, along with suzaku and CC reactions.
And suzaku crying can be "anything", as said already: regrets that lelouch had to doom himself as an eternal villain, or unable to meet him, etc. It can be interpreted in various way.

I just wanted to say that you people are looking too deeply into this which is probably exactly what the producers wanted you guys to do. Is Suzaku the type of guy to cry not seeing a friend for a long time? What's to stop them seeing each other anyways if Lelouch did live. The only time I remember Suzaku cried was when Euphie died.

And imagine yourself facing Lelouch and talking to him. Of course you won't be talking distantly.

Nunally probably just realized Lelouch's plan because the producers didn't want her to laugh and rejoice his death.

[Miraploy]

What happened to the space scene shown in the OP?

[Witacume]

Originally Posted by lousylaus

about Suzaku?

Well now that you mention it, Nunally knows it so I guess that's true but I don't think Kallen knows unless I missed something.

Kallen knows the truth.
So does Toudou at least.
Rewatch the scene.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra

I'm arguing not because i want to see him alive but because there was really no reason for him to set himself up to die just to obtain the results that happened at the end of the series. Crimes? He sees himself as someone who can influence the world not someone who has to pay for his actions.(that would be Suzaku)

Really? For Lelouch he had to die as he was the symbol of all the hatred in the world and as a result of his death the world would be more untie. Also Lelouch changed over course of the show as a C.C said this his punishment for his crime.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by lousylaus

about Suzaku?

Well now that you mention it, Nunally knows it so I guess that's true but I don't think Kallen knows unless I missed something.

Kallen immediately figured what the two planned, as soon as she saw "that Zero".
That is the very reason why she was emotional when Suzaku was about to stab lelouch. She obviously know that lelouch did the selfless, and she knew before that lelouch has the scary habit to shoulder all the burden into himself.

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Considering how C.C. "died" during R1 and R2, we can assume that an immortal actually "dies", but their body immediately recovers.
Also, if we follow the "code theory", we can speculate that Lelouch actually was still human, hence the "death" pattern for his body, then the code kicks in when he died.

The only "problem" would be: how actually lelouch would be able to get away, once he is "back"? Not like people wouldn't freak out to see a body missing, or a walking dead.

i'm still thinking lelouch still alive remember that preview of r2-25 was just flashback of ep.1 geass & besides during that c2 was shot but alive again a few eps later.

besides suzaku/zero jump orange & how he act that orange was involve in the "act" really even if ya have to pause/rewind to see like 10 or more times ya get the pic.

cause if GORO & ICHIRO if ya reading you got a whole f'n trainwreck full of $h1t to explain the "re:"al TRUTH or else fans will want more geass in ova/movie/r3/spinoff/& even a f'n special edtion with new f'n scenes to really explain everything or else you get the Hideaki Anno's "treatment" during the mid 90s

[Avira]

Originally Posted by Miraploy

Lol Xinghe didn't get invited to the wedding. Either that or he finally croaked.

Yeah what the hell happened to him?? He isn't in any picture, but Tianzi is
Did he die? I couldn't understand a word throughout the whole episode(RAW), so I don't know

In some ways, the end really sucked-.- What about C.C.'s Name? Did Lelouch die or not? And Sayako? Li Xingke?? *sigh*
Almost as bad as FMA, where Winry didn't get her Eddie (my first anime!!)
Could it be that lots of anime endings are unsatisfying? Elfen Lied and Ghost Hunt weren't much better...
And don't get me started on Maross Frontier

[CJL13]

Spoiler:

Would Lelouch being dead mean all the Geass' cast by him would wear off?

[DmonHiro]

Originally Posted by Miraploy

What happened to the space scene shown in the OP?

That was the Sigfreid Sutherland. Take a picture of the ship in the OP and take a picture of the Sigfried firing in episode 24. You'll see what I mean

[Magin]

Originally Posted by Avira

Could it be that lots of anime endings are unsatisfying?

IMO, yes. I sometimes wonder why I bother watching it at all... I suppose it's to find those gems of happy/beautiful endigs that are scattered among the rest of the crap endings

[CJL13]

Originally Posted by Avira

Yeah what the hell happened to him?? He isn't in any picture, but Tianzi is
Did he die? I couldn't understand a word throughout the whole episode(RAW), so I don't know

In some ways, the end really sucked-.- What about C.C.'s Name? Did Lelouch die or not? And Sayako? Li Xingke?? *sigh*
Almost as bad as FMA, where Winry didn't get her Eddie (my first anime!!)
Could it be that lots of anime endings are unsatisfying? Elfen Lied and Ghost Hunt weren't much better...
And don't get me started on Maross Frontier

Lately anime endings have been bittersweet, everything is well, but the main character/s is/are usually screwed in some way.

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by CJL13

Spoiler:

Would Lelouch being dead mean all the Geass' cast by him would wear off?

Apparently not, since he's convinced that Schneizel will continue serving Zero, and since it took Orange's Geass Canceller to recover Anya's memories.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by CJL13

Spoiler:

Would Lelouch being dead mean all the Geass' cast by him would wear off?

No, see Charles geass still working on Nunnaly.

[Airi]

Originally Posted by lousylaus

about Suzaku?

Well now that you mention it, Nunally knows it so I guess that's true but I don't think Kallen knows unless I missed something.

Suzaku and Nunnaly will take care of each other. And, unless another war pops up, soon Zero won't be needed anymore and Suzaku will do whatever he wants.
Suzaku and Nunnaly will go to the countryside like C.C and... Lelouch!

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by king12354

I just wanted to say that you people are looking too deeply into this which is probably exactly what the producers wanted you guys to do. Is Suzaku the type of guy to cry not seeing a friend for a long time? What's to stop them seeing each other anyways if Lelouch did live. The only time I remember Suzaku cried was when Euphie died.

As Zero, he would obviously have no way to get a break from his duty. Furthermore, Lelouch trying to move out would be more like suicide then anything. That would be the worst case scenario as people would certainly give Lelouch a full run for his money in term of torture and experience (see C.C.).

And imagine yourself facing Lelouch and talking to him. Of course you won't be talking distantly.

Please at least compare how her tone change. The thing is that the fact isn't confirmed blatantly, but the amount of "convenient coincidences" are a bit too much.

Nunally probably just realized Lelouch's plan because the producers didn't want her to laugh and rejoice his death.

Ah, so she realized everything just by grasping his hand, while there are so many amount of flashback, that she would never imagine? (especially Suzaku with lelouch and CC).
The fact there were such flashbacks are too much to conclude "oh, she figured herself". That is impossible.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Airi

Suzaku and Nunnaly will take care of each other. And, unless another war pops up, soon Zero won't be needed anymore and Suzaku will do whatever he wants.
Suzaku and Nunnaly will go to the countryside like C.C and... Lelouch!

Someone needs to rebuild the place, in case you forgot a major city has been nuked.