Character Discussion - Kallen

[bladeofdarkness]

but it is likely that she will
otherwise kallen doesnt make it out of the hanger (if she uses a mental attack)
or C.C doesnt (if she tries fighting kallen with just the pinkcelot)

[Baixinho]

You know guys, I've been thinking about a part of Animage's magazine we may have dismissed a bit too early in the spoiler thread :

Spoiler for Magazine:

this post
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3627
and this post
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3529

Looking at the first post, the convo between Schneizel, Kanon, Corneila and Diethard is actually quite accurate in a way when you compare it it the scene in episode 23 :
Scheizel talks about becoming God if people expect him to
Cornelia rebels when she hears the word God and Damocles' true purpose
Diethard have found a new idol as soon as Schneizel talked about becoming God
Only Kanon's line didn't refer to anything, but the others are pretty accurate in desribing the character's state of mind.

Therefore, I guess we could apply this to the second post to guess that Kallen and Gino may hear about the promise, and while Gino will consider Suzaku and Lelouch worthless, Kallen will not be able to give up yet and will try to get the truth from Lelouch's mouth. Anya may also play a role as well, but I don't really understand what means the first part of her line

[prototype_sky]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

suzaku cares about results over anything else at this point

Lulu is the same way since "End Justifies the Means" "we must do this for those that died" he is something he has preached time and time again

Even Kallen herself has argued this against Suzaku in S1 Ep1 stating that her fight is justified and if she stop her brothers death would be meaningless.

For Kallen to step in now and change her tune
She be as big a hypocrite as many have claimed Suzaku to be throughout the show

This why I can't believe this whole Kallen stopping Lulu. If she does get some inside info she should be helping him.

[Dream_Traveller]

It'll be a first if she does. She was never in Zero's little inner circle from the start, so...here's a change.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

Lulu is the same way since "End Justifies the Means" "we must do this for those that died" he is something he has preached time and time again

Even Kallen herself has argued this against Suzaku in S1 Ep1 stating that her fight is justified and if she stop her brothers death would be meaningless.

For Kallen to step in now and change her tune
She be as big a hypocrite as many have claimed Suzaku to be throughout the show

This why I can't believe this whole Kallen stopping Lulu. If she does get some inside info she should be helping him.

yes she will be
and how has kallen being HELPING lulu during the entire show
what was her role during every fucking battle (well almost)
lets hear it everyone ....

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

It'll be a first if she does. She was never in Zero's little inner circle from the start, so...here's a change.

can you explin that one

[Kusaja]

Originally Posted by Baixinho

You know guys, I've been thinking about a part of Animage's magazine we may have dismissed a bit too early in the spoiler thread :

Spoiler for Magazine:

this post
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3627
and this post
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=3529

Looking at the first post, the convo between Schneizel, Kanon, Corneila and Diethard is actually quite accurate in a way when you compare it it the scene in episode 23 :
Scheizel talks about becoming God if people expect him to
Cornelia rebels when she hears the word God and Damocles' true purpose
Diethard have found a new idol as soon as Schneizel talked about becoming God
Only Kanon's line didn't refer to anything, but the others are pretty accurate in desribing the character's state of mind.

Therefore, I guess we could apply this to the second post to guess that Kallen and Gino may hear about the promise, and while Gino will consider Suzaku and Lelouch worthless, Kallen will not be able to give up yet and will try to get the truth from Lelouch's mouth. Anya may also play a role as well, but I don't really understand what means the first part of her line

Looks like a pretty good find.

I don't think we should take the entire conversation literally, but it does seem that at least part of it will reflect what happens in the episode...maybe what Kallen herself says?

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

This why I can't believe this whole Kallen stopping Lulu. If she does get some inside info she should be helping him.

Depends on how much she understands though...if it's enough, she'll either let him go or will aid him. If not, then she'll either become more curious or will actively try to stop it.

[Dream_Traveller]

You know. She wanted to be let in on what the hell C.C. and Lelouch were conversing about and all. Lelouch may have trusted her, but he didn't let her into his own inner circle of himself and C.C.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

yes she will be
and how has kallen being HELPING lulu during the entire show
what was her role during every fucking battle (well almost)
lets hear it everyone ....

Well, you don't know if she is going to help him... That is still up in the air.

As for her role in battle, it was as Zero's bodyguard. But Zero is dead now... Lelouch Vi Britannia is a separate mask entirely.

[bladeofdarkness]

as much as i enjoy taking on all of you at the same time
i kinda have work tomorrow
so this is where i bid you good night

[Kusaja]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

You know. She wanted to be let in on what the hell C.C. and Lelouch were conversing about and all. Lelouch may have trusted her, but he didn't let her into his own inner circle of himself and C.C.

That's true, but then again that's more of an inner circle by default and due to special circumstances, not by personal choice alone, considering they are almost inseparable due to the Geass contract and their twisted, rather fatalistic goals (since C.C. originally wanted to die, though she now has doubts and all that, while Lelouch is on a path of self-destruction/sacrifice).

[youngde]

If Kallen does find out that Lelouch is planning to destroy himself to save the world, I could totally see her busting in just as he's about to do it and say something like, "If you're so damn smart, figure out a way to save the world w/o killing yourself, or I'm going down with you!!"

It would be a touching moment.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Well, you don't know if she is going to help him... That is still up in the air.

This is true. But from a storyline standpoint, where does her remaining his enemy take her character.

Unless she does end up killing w/o coming to any sort of understanding of what he's doing

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

You know. She wanted to be let in on what the hell C.C. and Lelouch were conversing about and all. Lelouch may have trusted her, but he didn't let her into his own inner circle of himself and C.C.

Very true. She was jealous of this very fact. Imo its a percentage of why she walked away.

[morbosfist]

Even if it's against his will, helping Lelouch is the only route they can take without completely ruining her character. It's bad enough they had to make them enemies by circumstance, if they don't resolve anything then it will just be a waste.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

You know. She wanted to be let in on what the hell C.C. and Lelouch were conversing about and all. Lelouch may have trusted her, but he didn't let her into his own inner circle of himself and C.C.

While true, most of the stuff that he didn't let her know about was Geass related (Rolo, Geass cult, etc.), which admittably, Kallen would not have been able to help with anyway. So in a way, he was keeping her out of harms way because if she had known, she may have done something half-cocked and gotten herself killed. (She can be kinda dumb that way, and Lelouch realizes that.)

[Mahmed]

My theory for Lulu pushing away Kallen:
I have read alot of the previous posts and will try not to repeat the same thing. I believe that having Kallen fight against Lelouch is sort of a guarantee(not 100% cause she can die from choking on a pretzel as well) to make sure Kallen is safe from being suspected by the Black Knights or Shneizel's faction. Whether Lelouch wins or loses the battle she will be fine. i.e if Lelouch loses no harm to Kallen, if Lelouch wins I dont expect Lelouch to harm Kallen because that would contradict why he saved her during the Black Knights betrayal.

On another note the saving of Kallen by making himself the bad guy during the betrayal is a formula that has been used in lots of Asian Dramas. This extremely popular drama called 'My Lucky Star' had this scene where the heroine is kidnapped. The hero brings the ransom money to save her but the kidnapper actually wants revenge and cuffs both the hero and heroine. The kidnapper sets the building on fire. The hero tells the heroine that he hates her and their engagement is off. The kidnapper sympathizes with the heroine because he was mistreated by the hero and lets the heroine go. Sound familiar.

Personally I am a Kallen fan but I wouldn't mind is she ends up with Lelouch. The dilemma for Kallen is that if she follows Lelouch because of love, friendship or trust then thats not in her character. Alot of people are complaining that Kallen is dumb for not following Lelouch but I think she is being true to herself otherwise she and Suzaku would be having the same contradicting logic for righteousness or love has blinded her. The only way for Kallen to follow Lelouch is if she believes what Lelouch is doing is better for everyone. Even if Lelouch says something like 'You are special to me' or something, I dont think that even that would stop Kallen from killing him.

Unfortunately my life experience is different. I am more of doormat to my girlfriend, if she wants something, I usually dont argue about it unless its impossible for me to do it.

[kir44n]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

Even if it's against his will, helping Lelouch is the only route they can take without completely ruining her character. It's bad enough they had to make them enemies by circumstance, if they don't resolve anything then it will just be a waste.

Of course, them being enemies of circumstance could be used to bring them closer together (overcoming a misunderstanding/obstacle). We won't know until the next episode....of course -_-

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by kir44n

Of course, them being enemies of circumstance could be used to bring them close together (overcoming a misunderstanding/obstacle). We won't know until the next episode....of course -_-

Well naturally, but I still find it somewhat annoying that they went that route. As long as it pays off somehow I can deal with it, though.

Originally Posted by Mahmed

The dilemma for Kallen is that if she follows Lelouch because of love, friendship or trust then thats not in her character. Alot of people are complaining that Kallen is dumb for not following Lelouch but I think she is being true to herself otherwise she and Suzaku would be having the same contradicting logic for righteousness or love has blinded her. The only way for Kallen to follow Lelouch is if she believes what Lelouch is doing is better for everyone. Even if Lelouch says something like 'You are special to me' or something, I dont think that even that would stop Kallen from killing him.

Following him for any of those reasons would be in her character. She was willing to die with him rather than continue her fight to free Japan for a mere acknowledgment of her feelings. She's not following hm because it's not in her character to force herself upon others. She's selfless by nature. If lelouch acknowledged her, or at the very least showed her a measure of real trust by letting her in, she would follow him, or at the very least try to stop him from going too far. As for killing him, nothing short of an outright lie would be enough. She just figured out she really loves him. She's not going to kill him.

[prototype_sky]

What proof do you have that Lulu and Suzaku plan to kill themselves?

Someone posted that it would be suicide to take on the world as an enemy.
Heck you have to admit Lulu saying he wanted to take on Britannian back in season one could also be considered suicide.

Until there is proof that the Zero Requiem plan is equal to Lulu / Suzaku Drinking Kool Aid together and not equal to world peace but equal to world domination
there is no reason to stop them.

There is no need to vilify either Kallen or Suzaku right now since throughout the series they've bought proven to be decent characters at heart and if the directors can spare bastards like Ougi. Then after Kallen and Suzaku put on an awesome KMF battle show for us they can kiss and makeup in the last episode and all be friends again.

[morbosfist]

The options boil down rather quickly when one becomes the enemy of the world. It's not a course that ends well. They can't exactly say, "We were just kidding, sorry about that."