Speculation on The Future of the Haruhi Anime Franchise, post-Disappearance

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by Ice Block

*cough*Planetarian*cough*

Point taken.

2012 movie, then

[Triple_R]

Well... looks like I have a lot to finally respond to.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful replies to my last post on this thread. There's also a couple other comments made since then that I'd like to touch on.

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

I think practically everything you said is more applicable to Kadokawa (other than the fact that K-ON! is a cash cow for KyoAni). KyoAni doesn't do merch or stuff like that. They're just an animation studio.

I honestly have no clue how good merchandise sales are for either K-On! or Haruhi.
I'd honestly be surprised if K-On! is ahead in that category, but I don't know.

Like yourself, I'm pretty sure that KyoAni only makes a profit off of the actual anime (DVD sales, on-line streaming sales perhaps, now movie gate receipts to some degree I would imagine).

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

I myself dislike trolling; it's irritating and often get the fans' hopes up for nothing.

Ok, I think I see what you mean by "trolling" now. Basically, you probably mean the same as what I meant by "viral marketing".

For quite some time, KyoAni and/or Kadokawa would put Disappearance-based images in popular magazines to promote Haruhi. Personally, this struck me as preying on the fans desire for Disappearance to be adapted into the anime.

Now, that would be fine if Disappearance was actually being adapted soon, but for a long time, it wasn't.

Now that it finally has been adapted, though, that takes quite a bit of an edge off of my previous viral marketing complaint. Making fans wait a bit longer than they would naturally expect to isn't necessarily nice, but it's certainly better than failing to deliver entirely.

But I have accepted that KyoAni's style of 'trolling' has actually become one of their signature moves, and I use it freely and casually in a joking manner. If that upsets you I apologize.

That's Ok. No need to apologize, as I now think I know what you meant by "trolling", and it's not the more catch-all over-the-top (imo) meaning for the term. Some people use it as a catch-all term for "teasing the fans" or even "intentionally punishing the fans" (a lot of people felt that the whole of E8 was a troll). I think that you just meant it for KyoAni's marketing/promotional approach.

But KyoAni's 'trolling' is also good in the sense that they actually care about the series enough to create 'troll-material'. I myself haven't experienced much of the so-called trolling, but I believe that while there's a brief period of disappointment after the truth is revealed, I look forward to them actually producing the things they hype. Think of it as a stepping stone to the actual thing, if you will.

I can see your point.

All of those questionable Haruhi promotions (questionable only because they referenced Disappearance long before the movie came out) at least proved that KyoAni still cared about Haruhi, even well into the three-year layoff.

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

K-On! and Bakemonogatari both sold a lot better BR-wise than Haruhi (2006) did with its DVDs. Since Haruhi 2009 only came out on DVD, it'll be interesting to see how a BR release will do. A lot of fans are speculating (but nothing at all is confirmed) about a BR-BOX release like Kanon and Clannad were (but both of those were Pony Canyon releases unlike Haruhi for Kadokawa so that may not be in the plans)

I'd love to see that. I'd also be interested to see how Haruhi does on BR. There's a possibility that some Haruhi fans are waiting for Haruhi 2009 on the BR, and wouldn't buy it on DVD. I'm a bit skeptical myself (since I think your average hardcore anime fan is more focused on expediency than on visual quality, although both is important to him or her), but we'll have to see first.

I think KyoAni may have recognized the K-On! mania and decided to capitalize on the success (since it's the first thing they put out since Haruhi's "second period"). What may be telling is which series comes out after K-On!'s season 2 (like relentlessflame said, they've been switching production companies, so after that will be something of Kadokawa if the trend holds)

Agreed.

I'm tired of hearing about "KyoAni trolling" as well since I'm pretty sure a lot of the hints came from Kadokawa instead (like a lot of the stuff to do with the website since that's owned by Kadokawa). I don't want to say that it's a good thing because waiting three years to put out something new isn't a smart idea, but everything seemed to have been planned in hindsight, or at least since the December 18th 2007 Yuki poster. I wrote a post about the past three years for Cartoon Leap if anyone wants to hear my full thoughts on the situation.

I don't think any fans know what's going to happen with the franchise; only the executives at Kadokawa and maybe KyoAni do. I'd love to hear that there will be new episodes as soon as this fall in addition to the tenth novel, but I don't think it'll come out that way or anything resembling that. Patience will hold us through the tough times (just like a wait for DVD/Blu-Ray release for Shōshitsu).

I strongly agree with you on all of this too. Good points.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I think the whole "trolling" thing is a bit of 4chan making it's way onto other forums. I may dislike Kadokawa/Kyoani's advertising scheme the majority of the time, but I don't think it's trolling....because....well....not everything in the world is trolling contrary to what 4chan believes and there's a little label called "bad policy" or at least "questionable policy" which I think is far more fitting.

Yeah, I also prefer that terminology. It's probably closer to how Kadokawa/KyoAni themselves look at it.

I suspect, and admit, that what I've called viral marketing was Kadokawa and/or KyoAni's attempt to keep Haruhi more front-and-center in the anime fan's thinking. Don't let Haruhi fade due to lack of recent exposure, basically. I can certainly understand and respect that. I would have preferred it if it wasn't through teasing fans about Disappearance up to two years in advance, but since Disappearance was a movie (and not a part of a season of episodes), it seems a bit less questionable now. I mean, some big Hollywood blockbusters are, in fact, promoted up to two years in advance, I think.


All of the Haruhi references and/or seiyu use in Lucky Star might have been part of the plan here too.

Also are you sure the ones talking about Kyoani "trolling" as a good thing aren't the types that think everything Kyoani does is a stroke of masterful genius on top of buying into the idea that the business world is somehow anything like 4chan? I think the source needs to be considered in the cases you describe.

Good points...

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

There's still Key to figure in here...

*cough*LittleBusters*cough*

Yes! I very much look forward to Little Busters being animated too.

And I haven't even played the games. I say this purely on the basis of seven 4Komas I read that I found hilarious.


Little Busters and Haruhi are the two properties I'd most like to see more of from KyoAni in the next year or two.

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

One of KyoAni's best strengths, when they do it correctly, is adapting a work faithfully, but still taking advantage of the change in medium. When this is done well, you get the uncommon situation of a fan enjoying the adaptation more than the original, even if they experienced the original first.

*snip*

Very well said.

I have to agree here, at least in most instances.

KyoAni realizes that an anime is not a light novel, and what works in one medium might not work in another. At the same time, though, KyoAni values source material faithfulness as much as any animation studio around (sometimes too much so, it could even be argued).

So, at its best, KyoAni gives the best of both worlds. Faithful adaptation, but improving on areas where the medium change basically demands it.

Day of Sagittarius would have been nowhere near as good if not for the shout outs to other anime, as you said.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Day of Sagittarius would have been nowhere near as good if not for the shout outs to other anime, as you said.

I kind of don't really see it as a plus and minus. Personally as much as I like seeing references to some of my favourite shows and being able to spot them (fan points etc.) I'm starting to think there's a bit too much of it going on lately.

And then you have shows like Lucky Star which at times decided to just forgo the parody in favour of just featuring actual products like FMP Manga and Mikuru Figurines and even Aya Hirano herself. To me that's not really clever or even parody or tribute, it's just marketing and tapping into other market interests. Other shows are guilty of it to (a lot of them Kyoani shows as well come to think of it), but that still takes the cake for my top example of marketing meets tribute.

KyoAni realizes that an anime is not a light novel, and what works in one medium might not work in another. At the same time, though, KyoAni values source material faithfulness as much as any animation studio around (sometimes too much so, it could even be argued).

I like the way you've phrased this with the "as much as any anime studio around". Over the past few years I've grown weary of people singling out and celebrating Kyoani for things that are just as much to the credit of other studios and their own particular works that get no credit since it's either expected (it seems Kyoani is often celebrated highly when they hit their par expectations with fans which to me seems unnecessary and excessive) or people just plain don't celebrate them for it. It's been as if to say that the other studios don't give any effort in their adaptations and/or their methods are inferior or not worthy of attention and/or they have no clue about the difference between a light novel vs. an anime when it's simply not true and cheapens the work of the rest of the industry. You have a good eye for finding my little pet peeves and helping to set the record straighter so thank you.

I think a lot of what needs to happen is for people that start with Kyoani shows and moe shows etc. to try and branch out and see what the rest of the industry is coming out with and gain if not an interest, at least an appreciation and awareness for it. It'd certainly help people to see why when everybody is raving about a particular "achievement" by Kyoani I often (upon hearing the news) come in and basically say "yes, but in the grand scheme of things this really isn't that overwhelmingly impressive" and in my fouler moods tend to mock the celebration of it.

[Ice Block]

On BD sales: IMO, part of the reason why K-On! (and Bakemonogatari, though the commentary tracks and remastered scenes were what really mattered) BD sales were stupidly high because we are currently in the process of transitioning from HD DVD to Blu-Ray. DVD is getting phased out, and most DVD buyers already have BD players / PS3. Also, eyeballing these lists, the BD to DVD sales ratio is somehow related to the titles' genre(s). Interesting...

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I would contest that with Clannad After Stories wonky ass ending as an example of what works for a game format not necessarily working for the anime format. Honestly I've always felt the exact opposite, that they are very much slaves to the source material, for better or for worse.

Do you have a better idea on how to adapt it then, while still staying faithful to the source? Let us hear it.

[aegisofrime]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I think a lot of what needs to happen is for people that start with Kyoani shows and moe shows etc. to try and branch out and see what the rest of the industry is coming out with and gain if not an interest, at least an appreciation and awareness for it. It'd certainly help people to see why when everybody is raving about a particular "achievement" by Kyoani I often (upon hearing the news) come in and basically say "yes, but in the grand scheme of things this really isn't that overwhelmingly impressive" and in my fouler moods tend to mock the celebration of it.

Fine, but do you have any recommendations?

As you yourself have pointed out directly or indirectly on more than one occasion, the popularity of anime series can be hype-driven. Thus, those "artsy-fartsy", or less mainstream works then to get buried. I for one, will like to know what you yourself think is overwhelming impressive.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I kind of don't really see it as a plus and minus. Personally as much as I like seeing references to some of my favourite shows and being able to spot them (fan points etc.) I'm starting to think there's a bit too much of it going on lately.

I agree with you here.

It wasn't that shouting out to other animes is necessarily good; it's that, in Day of Sagittarius' case, the alternative would have been kind of boring. Watching several minutes of the SOS Brigade play a video game from the perspective of somebody walking around the club room would not have been quite as entertaining and explosive as watching Zeon Commander Haruhi go to literal war with the Earth Sphere Alliance's CCP.

But, in fairness, other animation studios get this right too. Fate/Stay Night's action sequences in their anime is a nice improvement off of the games that the anime is based on, imo, for example.

And then you have shows like Lucky Star which at times decided to just forgo the parody in favour of just featuring actual products like FMP Manga and Mikuru Figurines and even Aya Hirano herself. To me that's not really clever or even parody or tribute, it's just marketing and tapping into other market interests. Other shows are guilty of it to (a lot of them Kyoani shows as well come to think of it), but that still takes the cake for my top example of marketing meets tribute.

A lot of animes do have that sort of humor that I hated seeing in "Meet the Spartans". Which is to say that a pop culture reference is a joke in and of itself. The idea is that just dropping a reference is supposed to be funny, even if it's not couched in a clever line or used as part of a fitting analogy or comparison. That I generally dislike, yeah.

I'd like to see less of this in anime in general, or at least to have the other animes referenced to be referenced in a genuinely clever and witty way.

I like the way you've phrased this with the "as much as any anime studio around". Over the past few years I've grown weary of people singling out and celebrating Kyoani for things that are just as much to the credit of other studios and their own particular works that get no credit since it's either expected (it seems Kyoani is often celebrated highly when they hit their par expectations with fans which to me seems unnecessary and excessive) or people just plain don't celebrate them for it. It's been as if to say that the other studios don't give any effort in their adaptations and/or their methods are inferior or not worthy of attention and/or they have no clue about the difference between a light novel vs. an anime when it's simply not true and cheapens the work of the rest of the industry. You have a good eye for finding my little pet peeves and helping to set the record straighter so thank you.

You're welcome. I tend to like KyoAni shows, but I've also liked many AIC, JC Staff, Shaft, and Sunrise shows, so I'm not that keen on the idea of KyoAni being treated like the only good animation studio around either.

I think they're one of the best, but they have their weaknesses like every other studio does (ex. KyoAni couldn't do an anime original anime if their lives depended on it; AIC and Sunrise can, to their credit).

For adapting school-based light novels and visual novels/games, KyoAni is probably the best in the business (although, even here, JC Staff and SHAFT are at least close competitors).

I think a lot of what needs to happen is for people that start with Kyoani shows and moe shows etc. to try and branch out and see what the rest of the industry is coming out with and gain if not an interest, at least an appreciation and awareness for it.

Yeah, I agree.

But then, at least some people here do in fact watch other non-KyoAni animes.

I know that Kogetsu likes Gurren Lagann and Code Geass.
I know that Kaisos loves Umineko and likes Bakemonogatari.
I know that Amy loves Umineko.
I know that Archon_Wing likes Shana and Nanoha.
And I like (usually) all of the above animes.

So that's good, at least.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I like the way you've phrased this with the "as much as any anime studio around". Over the past few years I've grown weary of people singling out and celebrating Kyoani for things that are just as much to the credit of other studios and their own particular works that get no credit since it's either expected (it seems Kyoani is often celebrated highly when they hit their par expectations with fans which to me seems unnecessary and excessive) or people just plain don't celebrate them for it. It's been as if to say that the other studios don't give any effort in their adaptations and/or their methods are inferior or not worthy of attention and/or they have no clue about the difference between a light novel vs. an anime when it's simply not true and cheapens the work of the rest of the industry. You have a good eye for finding my little pet peeves and helping to set the record straighter so thank you.

Yeah... Except that that's not what "as much as any animation studio around" implies... When you say someone does X as well as anyone else does, you're suggesting that they're at the top of the game. That even if you compare them to the best of the rest, that they do X just as well (if not better). That "as" at the beginning of the phrase makes a big difference, since "much as any animation studio around" would mean the same thing you are suggesting.

Grammar lessons aside, I'm not suggesting you're wrong about other studios making good adaptations. I can't see any studio other than Shaft doing a better adaptation of Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, for example. My point was that, as evidenced by at least the latter two Full Metal Panics and a majority of the (non E8) episodes from Haruhi (and Disappearance, by the majority of reviews), KyoAni can be very good—better than most, in fact—at successfully adapting a story and adding/adapting just enough to make the adaptation shine on its own merits while staying faithful to the original. Haruhi-chan was very faithful to the spirit of its source material, even if the anime material was largely new (I've only read a few chapters of the manga, so that last part might be wrong). I haven't read any of the Lucky Star or K-On manga, so I have no idea how much of that was "faithfully adapted", but they were inarguably successful, at least monetarily (and Lucky Star certainly had its moments). I'd argue that multiple-ending visual novels like Kanon and Clannad are pretty much impossible to adapt "faithfully" unless you want to take pages from Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni and Endless Eight, but it's obvious by recent comments that Your Mileage May Vary on whether they did so successfully.

[Bri]

Some interesting discussion going on.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Anyway, to bring thing back around to the main point again, Kyoto Animation is almost certainly going to keep on animating projects in partnership with Kadokawa, and Haruhi has been a proven solid seller. What other properties to Kadokawa have on hand that have a reliable chance of being an even better seller? Even though K-On is selling well, Kyoto Animation still needs other projects as well to fill up their schedule. So it's not as if the two properties are really "in competition" with each other anyway.

Agreed, the Kadokawa Kyoani relationship doesn’t seem to depend on Haruhi alone. Tbh I don’t know much about Kadogawa’s line up of light novels and (4-koma)mangas as I’m an animation fan. But some browsing through their bestsellers would probably tell us what we can expect for Kyoani in the near future.

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

K-On! and Bakemonogatari both sold a lot better BR-wise than Haruhi (2006) did with its DVDs. Since Haruhi 2009 only came out on DVD, it'll be interesting to see how a BR release will do. A lot of fans are speculating (but nothing at all is confirmed) about a BR-BOX release like Kanon and Clannad were (but both of those were Pony Canyon releases unlike Haruhi for Kadokawa so that may not be in the plans).

Originally Posted by Ice Block

On BD sales: IMO, part of the reason why K-On! (and Bakemonogatari, though the commentary tracks and remastered scenes were what really mattered) BD sales were stupidly high because we are currently in the process of transitioning from HD DVD to Blu-Ray. DVD is getting phased out, and most DVD buyers already have BD players / PS3. Also, eyeballing these lists, the BD to DVD sales ratio is somehow related to the titles' genre(s). Interesting... .

‘
Agreed, I’ve been saying this before sales in new anime have been skewed by the Blu-Ray introduction. Gundam00, Macross Frontier, K-on and Bakemonogatari all sold far more on BR then other anime did on DVD. Not surprising that visually impressive shows do very well on BR. If your a collector, your going to go for the best possible quality.

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

I'm tired of hearing about "KyoAni trolling" as well since I'm pretty sure a lot of the hints came from Kadokawa instead (like a lot of the stuff to do with the website since that's owned by Kadokawa). I don't want to say that it's a good thing because waiting three years to put out something new isn't a smart idea, but everything seemed to have been planned in hindsight, or at least since the December 18th 2007 Yuki poster. I wrote a post about the past three years for Cartoon Leap if anyone wants to hear my full thoughts on the situation.

I don't think any fans know what's going to happen with the franchise; only the executives at Kadokawa and maybe KyoAni do. I'd love to hear that there will be new episodes as soon as this fall in addition to the tenth novel, but I don't think it'll come out that way or anything resembling that. Patience will hold us through the tough times (just like a wait for DVD/Blu-Ray release for Shōshitsu).

It takes quite a bit of time for an anime in terms of preparation and production to reach broadcasting. There are plenty of anime franchises that had to wait far longer than three years for a sequel. If we discount the viral marketing to keep the fans hot and bothered, there are plenty of potential reasons why a sequel wasn’t created sooner: Kyoani had projects on order from Key, rights negotiations with Tanigawa, contracts with other mangake or writers for an anime version etc.

In fairness we do know who does what, Kadokawa has announced that they themselves controlled the marketing, while Kyoani or more specifically Tatsuya Ishihara has full creative control over Haruhi anime. The only thing I can imagine stopping more Haruhi projects would be a lack of source material in the long run. Speculating, we may not have to wait as long as last time as there have been no Key projects for Kyoani since Clannad AS and the latest went to P.A.Works. So I wouldn’t be surprised if they announced a new TV series or second movie soon.

Originally Posted by aegisofrime

Fine, but do you have any recommendations?

As you yourself have pointed out directly or indirectly on more than one occasion, the popularity of anime series can be hype-driven. Thus, those "artsy-fartsy", or less mainstream works then to get buried. I for one, will like to know what you yourself think is overwhelming impressive.

I don’t think anyone will ever accuse Kaioshin Sama of being a bundle of joy but he makes a fair point in regard of unwarranted fan adoration of Kyoani, especially when it concerns the quality of the source material. Kyoani is a very good studio when it comes to animation techniques, directing and adapting. (Munto, the often critizied and only original Kyoani work, really shows what they can and cannot do, and it left me pretty impressed in animation terms). Kyoani was really innovative in the mid 2000s when FMP:TSR , Air, Kanon and Haruhi set the standard for TV anime by blending CGI, digital coloring, photo-effects and hand drawn animation with great success. But other small studios are catching up, at least in technological sense.

As for other companies in 2009 I was really impressed by two Type-Moon based productions, Canaan and Kara No Kyou Kai by P.A.Works and Ufotable. Type –moon creates much darker and violent works then Key. Then off course the big studios like production IG and Bones delivered as usual with anime like Eden of the East, Kimi ni Todoke and Darker then Black 2.

[darksassin]

Yeah , there are other company that make fine animes.


btw, isnt these a little off topic??

sorry if my post hurts anyone feeling
Edit:Ignore this post now

[edkedkedk]

Wow, all this business talk is mind-boggling. I'll try to stay out of it as much as possible because I simply do not have a business brain and as such can't fathom KyoAni's plans and actions as well as y'all here.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I suspect, and admit, that what I've called viral marketing was Kadokawa and/or KyoAni's attempt to keep Haruhi more front-and-center in the anime fan's thinking. Don't let Haruhi fade due to lack of recent exposure, basically. I can certainly understand and respect that. I would have preferred it if it wasn't through teasing fans about Disappearance up to two years in advance, but since Disappearance was a movie (and not a part of a season of episodes), it seems a bit less questionable now. I mean, some big Hollywood blockbusters are, in fact, promoted up to two years in advance, I think.


All of the Haruhi references and/or seiyu use in Lucky Star might have been part of the plan here too.

Lucky Star is just a tool to promote Haruhi? I REFUSE TO ACCEEPPPTTTT~

Then again, I get your point. KyoAni's viral marketing (which you now know I call 'trolling' ) is very invasive. Judging by their past actions of deliberately advertising Disappearance that only came years later, just to keep Haruhi in the limelight, it wouldn't seem that unusual for Lucky Star to be just a promotional tool for Haruhi. Hare Hare Yukai dance? Cosplayers as Yuki, Mikuru and Haruhi? Phrases made popular in Haruhi such as megass? All check.

That being said, I'll like to defend Lucky Star in that its magic comes from the fact that it fits entirely into the original Lucky Star manga. Konata is an otaku, and thus would definitely follow the Haruhiism craze. KyoAni has been praised for their faithfulness to the original medium and I must agree, and with Lucky Star they actually went a step further by adding in new elements that, for lack of a better phrase, kills two birds with one stone. I am very impressed with KyoAni, especially after joining this forum where I find out more and more about their genius every day.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

A lot of animes do have that sort of humor that I hated seeing in "Meet the Spartans". Which is to say that a pop culture reference is a joke in and of itself. The idea is that just dropping a reference is supposed to be funny, even if it's not couched in a clever line or used as part of a fitting analogy or comparison. That I generally dislike, yeah.


For adapting school-based light novels and visual novels/games, KyoAni is probably the best in the business (although, even here, JC Staff and SHAFT are at least close competitors).

I know that Kaisos loves Umineko and likes Bakemonogatari.


So that's good, at least.

Looks like I have a common point with Kaisos; I'm a fan of Bakemonogatari (but keeping up with this forum is tough enough so I never visit theirs). It's hard for me to accept other studio's work because when I returned to anime it was Haruhi and Lucky Star all the way, along with their merchandise and concerts. As such, I don't know much about the other studios, but Bakemonogatari really impressed me (even though I still don't know which studio produces them). I agree with you, though; KyoAni is pretty darn good at adaptations because they stay so close to the original, even amping it up sometimes. Think 'Fumoffu'!

I hated Meet the Spartans too; there wasn't any reason to pop in those references other than the sake of getting cheap laughs. As a result, I came to dislike those animes that utilize that style of humor often. I must emphasize, though, Lucky Star works precisely because the main character is meant to know those stuff. KyoAni is pretty lucky to get Lucky Star (did I just use a pun?) because the anime itself is a good promotional gimmick for other franchises.

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

Looks like I have a common point with Kaisos; I'm a fan of Bakemonogatari (but keeping up with this forum is tough enough so I never visit theirs). It's hard for me to accept other studio's work because when I returned to anime it was Haruhi and Lucky Star all the way, along with their merchandise and concerts. As such, I don't know much about the other studios, but Bakemonogatari really impressed me (even though I still don't know which studio produces them). I agree with you, though; KyoAni is pretty darn good at adaptations because they stay so close to the original, even amping it up sometimes. Think 'Fumoffu'!

Bakemonogatari was done by Shaft, which is probably best known for the various Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei and EF series. They're currently adapting naked loli vampire manga Dance in the Vampire Bund.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by edkedkedk

Wow, all this business talk is mind-boggling.

Sorry about that.

I became pretty interested in the business side of anime when I read at a few places about how the anime industry as a whole is, well, kind of suffering right now.

Actually, here's one area where I will give Kyoto Animation full kudos; they make more money for each anime produced than any other animation studio out there. There's a lot to be learned, business-wise, from KyoAni's approach.

Lucky Star is just a tool to promote Haruhi? I REFUSE TO ACCEEPPPTTTT~

LOL!

No, I don't think that Lucky Star is just a tool to promote Haruhi.

I loved Konata's joke about tsunderes, for example. There's some good jokes in Lucky Star; they do a decent job of spoofing the industry as a whole.

Then again, I get your point. KyoAni's viral marketing (which you now know I call 'trolling' ) is very invasive. Judging by their past actions of deliberately advertising Disappearance that only came years later, just to keep Haruhi in the limelight, it wouldn't seem that unusual for Lucky Star to be just a promotional tool for Haruhi. Hare Hare Yukai dance? Cosplayers as Yuki, Mikuru and Haruhi? Phrases made popular in Haruhi such as megass? All check.

KyoAni is great at promotions, that's for sure, lol.

Anyway, you make a lot of good points.


SHAFT made Bakemonogatari, by the way.

If you liked that, you might like Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei
.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I like the way you've phrased this with the "as much as any anime studio around". Over the past few years I've grown weary of people singling out and celebrating Kyoani for things that are just as much to the credit of other studios and their own particular works that get no credit since it's either expected (it seems Kyoani is often celebrated highly when they hit their par expectations with fans which to me seems unnecessary and excessive) or people just plain don't celebrate them for it. It's been as if to say that the other studios don't give any effort in their adaptations and/or their methods are inferior or not worthy of attention and/or they have no clue about the difference between a light novel vs. an anime when it's simply not true and cheapens the work of the rest of the industry. You have a good eye for finding my little pet peeves and helping to set the record straighter so thank you.

I agree to some degree with this, that Kyoani tends to get too much praise. I'll even go as far to say that all their shows except for Lucky Star, K-on, and Munto (what?-- it's a movie/ova right?) are overrated. That doesn't necessarily mean any of them are bad, it's just that there is definitely some kind of "Kyoani exceptionalism" going on which has rather waned over the last year, mind you, as there has been significant disagreement over questionable decisions in all their 2009 shows. However, I really can't say people don't give credit to other studios. Certainly, everyone goes crazy over their favorite shows, and really isn't anything peculiar.

I think a lot of what needs to happen is for people that start with Kyoani shows and moe shows etc. to try and branch out and see what the rest of the industry is coming out with and gain if not an interest, at least an appreciation and awareness for it. It'd certainly help people to see why when everybody is raving about a particular "achievement" by Kyoani I often (upon hearing the news) come in and basically say "yes, but in the grand scheme of things this really isn't that overwhelmingly impressive" and in my fouler moods tend to mock the celebration of it.

Ok, now that's kinda silly here; what you are suggesting (broadening your horizons) is valid, but what you are assuming isn't. Why are you assuming these people have a limited scope of anime and they haven't watched anything else? Until they start openly bashing other anime with ignorant opinions, I can't really see the relevance. And even if they had a limited scope, they've inevitably seen many other forms of media to establish a valid opinion about stuff. I don't know, perhaps you are overrating your own perspective about anime.

Anyhow, I think you make many great points; but I feel your points are diluted by these two things:

1.) You keep insisting on bring up "hype" and what a certain segment of extremist Haruhi/kyoani fans think. That's nice and all, but often times it gets brought up more than the actual quality of the movie. Yes, there's nothing to talk about yet, but if you get swayed too much by stuff like this, how could you form a strong opinion? And you certainly won't be able to enjoy it. If that's your way, then so be it.

2.) This especially pertains to the second paragraph I quoted, but stop referring to the extremist Kyoani fans so much. I'm sure they exist somewhere, but hardly in this thread. How can you judge anything by the fringes? Basically, you spend too much time ranting about a vaguely defined group of people. Even a valid point loses its effectiveness when used too much. What is the relevance of it anyways? Some people lack objectivity, fine. So?

[darksassin]

Imo, there are no Haruhi extremist here. Fanatics, yes but not extremist. Business is not my thing, so these talk about viral marketing confuse me a little , but lucky star as a promotional tools for Haruhi? Never thought about that... But then LS does shoutout for many anime... Not just Haruhi.

[Khu]

Geez guys.

._.

Such a deep conversation.

KyoAni does great stuff, and it only started a few years ago, which is what I think is the cause of all the hype; that it's so young and doing really good stuff.

[edkedkedk]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Bakemonogatari was done by Shaft, which is probably best known for the various Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei and EF series. They're currently adapting naked loli vampire manga Dance in the Vampire Bund.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I became pretty interested in the business side of anime when I read at a few places about how the anime industry as a whole is, well, kind of suffering right now.

Actually, here's one area where I will give Kyoto Animation full kudos; they make more money for each anime produced than any other animation studio out there. There's a lot to be learned, business-wise, from KyoAni's approach.

KyoAni is great at promotions, that's for sure, lol.

SHAFT made Bakemonogatari, by the way.

If you liked that, you might like Sayonara, Zetsubou-Sensei
.

Oh! Thanks for the information on Bakemonogatari. Definitely will check out SHAFT's other works

I got interested in the anime industry itself after reading that it's actually not doing so well right now. It shocked me because I have hardcore anime fans as friends around me, and hang out with a bunch of anime fans from all over my country. I thought that the anime industry is booming. As it turns out, Japan don't typically accept anime as readily as other medias. Despite my poor business mind, I really would like to find out what's making the industry suffer, even with all the sales from merchandise and widespread coverage all over the world.

I haven't been getting into the studios, instead focusing on the storylines and more importantly for me, the seiyuus. They play a big part in deciding what I watch because their voices are what I recognize when I re-entered the world of anime, so I follow Haruhi's seiyuus pretty closely (Lucky Star for the cast, and as a result, Bakemonogatari for Aya Hirano and Emiri Kato, Fairy Tail for Aya Hirano, Chu-Bra!! for Minorin, Azumanga Daioh for Yuki Matsuoka). As such, I think KyoAni did a brilliant move in keeping the seiyuus in the limelight. It's much more easier to create fans that way. Honestly, I still do not know the big names in animation studios. My knowledge is limited to KyoAni, and SHAFT (thanks again guys), and I'm not even sure if SHAFT can be considered a big time animation studio.

Anyway I think I have gone off-topic and went into the anime industry instead of the Haruhi franchise, so I'll try to steer things back a little.

In my opinion, the Haruhi franchise will definitely continue. However, as I learned that KyoAni will be going on with Season 2 of K-On!, it seems that the Disappearance movie will be the last of Haruhi we'll be seeing for a long, long time. They'll also try to milk the interest and discussion of the movie to the very last drop, so they can concentrate on other projects while keeping interest in Haruhi alive. The release of Vol. 10 will help tide fans over until they start re-animating Haruhi, and I'm pretty sure KyoAni is relieved and happy that Tanigawa finally is releasing his novel. Saves KyoAni the effort in coming up with more viral marketing.

[darksassin]

Ironically, one of the reason anime industry suffering is because of mass piracy. And internet. Some fan download the ep from the net and when official dvd was released, they dont want to buy it with excuses such as too expensive, already watched the ep. etc...

[Airman8]

Originally Posted by darksassin

Ironically, one of the reason anime industry suffering is because of mass piracy. And internet. Some fan download the ep from the net and when official dvd was released, they dont want to buy it with excuses such as too expensive, already watched the ep. etc...

They need to create a system where fans can donate money directly to support the show. Not everyone wants to buy DVD's, myself included. They're expensive, they take up space, and they're made of environmentally damaging plastics.

Studios should stop looking at 'piracy' as a loss, and think of people sharing and promoting their shows as an opportunity to gain more money from a much, much wider audience. Just look at how much things have changed in North America over the first decade of the internet. Anime has a way bigger audience than before.

[ultimatemegax]

Regardless of how you enforce laws and enable digital rights management, there will always be people out there who are not going to purchase your product and there will be people who will either watch at someone else's house or obtain a copy from someone who owns it. That's automatically someone that's not going to buy a product.

What fansubs have done is enable people outside of Japan to be able to find shows they otherwise would not have seen (like Haruhi) and support them by buying other merchandise. As I've posted before, I'm buying the R2 Haruhi DVDs, and have ordered the Gensou DVD, and the Disappearance/ENOZ CDs as well as the guidebook. I plan to get a R1 copy of the new episodes so I can understand the extra features and complete that set as well.

If I had not been able to originally watch the fansubs, I wouldn't have purchased the limited edition R1 DVDs, much less what I've already bought, so there are people like me and TMISDR who would likely not have bought any merchandise if they hadn't been pirated from TV broadcasts.

Also think about other merchandise such as figures and toys for other various shows. I know of several people on another board who buy tons of Japanese Kamen Rider and Super Sentai toys that would not have been possible unless fansubs were not available.

Piracy isn't always a bad thing. Will there be people who won't buy anything, yes! But those people will always and have always existed. Enthrall people with a quality product and they will support the show regardless of cost. It's also a two-way street. If you really like a show, buy something for it, even if it's a single or a figure to show your support.

Back on track, even though the summer season (July-September/October) would be the next Kadokawa anime for Kyoto Animation, I doubt that it'll be Haruhi due to the fact that there's another light novel series that's been claimed to be the next Haruhi by Kadokawa that I feel has a better chance of being animated instead. I wouldn't mind seeing Haruhi take a Winter 2011 slot due to the topic stories taking place in the Winter time period.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

Back on track, even though the summer season (July-September/October) would be the next Kadokawa anime for Kyoto Animation, I doubt that it'll be Haruhi due to the fact that there's another light novel series that's been claimed to be the next Haruhi by Kadokawa that I feel has a better chance of being animated instead.

What series would this be?