Character Discussion - Shirley

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Oh, I agree with you Sol. I hate to see Shirley suffer and I would never inflict any pain on her, but unfortunately she always was a pretty tragic character. Not that we should add more tragedy to it.

Apparently, that is how Lelouch felt as well. Ironically enough though, the memories-erase-concept, totally backfired.

[bladeofdarkness]

it only backfired more then a YEAR later
during that year she was more or less happy
when he actually DID the memory washing thing, she was about to have a mental breakdown
which somewhat dictated his actions at the time

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

it only backfired more then a YEAR later
during that year she was more or less happy
when he actually DID the memory washing thing, she was about to have a mental breakdown
which somewhat dictated his actions at the time

I was mostly referring to the emotional-side of this, that triggered Lelouch to made her Geass-forget and how he had the best intentions about that. I was not really, referring to the technical-details.
And you ask me, i think Shirley's "fake" happiness that year, could not match her death moment, where she told Lelouch he loved him. I believe, that was her happiest moment, as much as weird as this sounds. //though that fake happiness, is not diminished in any way, just in my mind, is steps back.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Apparently, that is how Lelouch felt as well. Ironically enough though, the memories-erase-concept, totally backfired.

I always did find that irony quite interesting, how the people Lelouch wanted to protect the most by pushing them away were the ones that ended up getting hurt the most (usually)

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

it only backfired more then a YEAR later
during that year she was more or less happy
when he actually DID the memory washing thing, she was about to have a mental breakdown
which somewhat dictated his actions at the time

Well yeah, but Lelouch was MIA, or at least his wings had been clipped during that year. I have a feeling that something would have happened with Shirley much sooner if that hadn't happened.

[bladeofdarkness]

i suppose she kinda looked sorta happy in her dying moments, with what she told lelouch and all
though i certaintly wasnt happy about that scene
just thinking about it still makes me pissed off at the rag basterd

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i suppose she kinda looked sorta happy in her dying moments, with what she told lelouch and all
though i certaintly wasnt happy about that scene
just thinking about it still makes me pissed off at the rag basterd

Lol, i was not happy at all either, but i was talking about Shirley. I mean, i still believe her death scene could be orchestrated a bit better {mostly, with Innocent Days track, that would make it epic in my mind} but overall, it was a great one. Shirley, spending her last times, saying the things she did, was pure win.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

I was mostly referring to the emotional-side of this, that triggered Lelouch to made her Geass-forget and how he had the best intentions about that. I was not really, referring to the technical-details.
And you ask me, i think Shirley's "fake" happiness that year, could not match her death moment, where she told Lelouch he loved him. I believe, that was her happiest moment, as much as weird as this sounds. //though that fake happiness, is not diminished in any way, just in my mind, is steps back.

I don't see why you're calling that a year a "fake" happiness. I assume you mean because of the Geass's that were placed on her, keeping her from truth? I guess I can see what you mean there.

Well, I guess it's hard for me to say, but you're probably right that Shirley's death was her happiest moment, even if it was sad as all get out. She just wanted to help and be with the man she loved! Is that so wrong?!

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

I don't see why you're calling that a year a "fake" happiness. I assume you mean because of the Geass's that were placed on her, keeping her from truth? I guess I can see what you mean there.

Well, I guess it's hard for me to say, but you're probably right that Shirley's death was her happiest moment, even if it was sad as all get out. She just wanted to help and be with the man she loved! Is that so wrong?!

Yeah, this is what i meant, but i said, that even the "fake" happiness, cannot be diminished in the end.

That one sucked, just when she had reached her resolve and had taken certain initiatives, she gets shot. I mean, that one is on you Sunrise, that one is on you. 8D

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Yeah, this is what i meant, but i said, that even the "fake" happiness, cannot be diminished in the end.

That one sucked, just when she had reached her resolve and had taken certain initiatives, she gets shot. I mean, that one is on you Sunrise, that one is on you. 8D

Well, I'd say that's reasonable.

Ugh, not only that, but there was practically no point to her death. Other than the folks at Sunrise's insistence that "boy, we can't let her achieve any sense of importance or fulfillment, so lets kill her off". One of these days Okouchi. One of these days.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Well, I'd say that's reasonable.

Ugh, not only that, but there was practically no point to her death. Other than the folks at Sunrise's insistence that "boy, we can't let her achieve any sense of importance or fulfillment, so lets kill her off". One of these days Okouchi. One of these days.

It is just, that Lelouch's reactions after that, was totally what Shirley did not want about him. And the forgive-theme, between Suzaku and him, that was never really played out. Like her death was in vain.
I mean, if you look at it, from all the aspects, most of it will indeed give "no point." Well, other than that a lot of fans, were sad and stuff after Turn 13. Emotional-impact-point, but still.

[Betteroffer]

The saddest art to me about Shirley's death was that by making it so neatly mid-season, they basically made an in-series trope of Screw-Over-the-Carrot-Top-Mid-Way-Through (or Break the Cutie as has been said). Her death was still very tragic, but it depressed me even more in retrospect, since her character was made to seem more like a plot device this time, rather than a victim of Lelouch's desire for his own vengence.

While I don't have the episode on hand, I seem to recall one of the first things Shirley said to Lelouch in her death scene was "Lulu. I'm so happy that I could see you in the end." So yes, Shirley was a ray of optimism and hope, even in her dying moments.

In reference to Lord Bear's fanfic, a problem with Shirley's Geass making simple illusions would be the issue of the illusion being videotaped. Lelouch dying in front of the eyes of the world wouldn't work, since everyone who was watching through a TV would see Zero run up to an empty throne and seemingly wave his sword in the air.

A thought that might work, but would seem weirdly complex, would be that her Geass lets her "engrave" images into the collective unconcious i.e. the World of C. Basically she could make illusions that would exists in every person's mind for the rest of time, or until she herself died (probably the former, since Lelouch's Geass power clearly outlived him).

If Shirley made an illusion of a blue rock, this rock would not be real or solid, but a person could believe they were holding it and moving it, and if someone put it on a table, and another person moved it to a chair, then the first person, and anyone who came into that room afterwards, would see the rock as being on the chair.

Thinking about it, a Geass that I could see both Shirley and Kallen with would be Absolute Devotion. Essentially it would allow them to be instinctively aware of the locations of their loved ones regardless of distance (excuse me while I swoon), as well as a limited connection to their senses and possibly to their feelings and minds as well.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

The saddest art to me about Shirley's death was that by making it so neatly mid-season, they basically made an in-series trope of Screw-Over-the-Carrot-Top-Mid-Way-Through (or Break the Cutie as has been said). Her death was still very tragic, but it depressed me even more in retrospect, since her character was made to seem more like a plot device this time, rather than a victim of Lelouch's desire for his own vengence.

While I don't have the episode on hand, I seem to recall one of the first things Shirley said to Lelouch in her death scene was "Lulu. I'm so happy that I could see you in the end." So yes, Shirley was a ray of optimism and hope, even in her dying moments.

I was always irked by the fact, that she was killed, because she just happened to say the "wrong" thing, in the wrong time, in the wrong person. It was just "ah."

And yeah, this is what she said to Lelouch, characteristic of her, even in the last moments.
It really was a hit below the belt, considering all the crap she has gotten that epi, with her memories returning, and in the end, when she decides she is forgiving Lelouch and wants to assist him, an un-stable Rolo, starts shooting. Worse than Greek tragedy, honest.

[ginran]

Welcome back Sky!

anyways, I also think Shirley was happy in that scene, being her optimistic self. She even said she was happy just because she got to be with Lelouch in the end...she also got to tell him how she felt, which meant a lot to her. The poor girl was so confused then, but she knew one thing for sure: She loved Lelouch, and she wanted to be truthful to him even when no one else would be. The only thing I wonder is how might she have felt to see him start to break down like he did? I could see that upsetting her...but she did manage to keep a smile on her face that whole time...

Also, I dont know if this is true or not since I read it on Wikipedia......but apparently Shirley's design and name are references to Anne Shirley from the anime Anne of Green Gables. can anyone confirm this?

[azul120]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Lol, i was not happy at all either, but i was talking about Shirley. I mean, i still believe her death scene could be orchestrated a bit better {mostly, with Innocent Days track, that would make it epic in my mind} but overall, it was a great one. Shirley, spending her last times, saying the things she did, was pure win.

I think the track that played instead was more fitting in a way, because there was that accompanying feeling of panic and tension as Lelouch attempted to Geass her in order to keep her from slipping away.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Oh, I agree with you Sol. I hate to see Shirley suffer and I would never inflict any pain on her, but unfortunately she always was a pretty tragic character. Not that we should add more tragedy to it.


I'm not familiar with "yume to kibo". Care to explain?

And I don't think she'd be hurt by helping him. She loves Lulu and if she's going to be closer to him than all the better. And she may even make him see the light, as Sol has stated.

Yume: Dream

to: and

Kibo: Hope

You know, one thing about Lelouch which irritated me was him trying to "save face" at all costs in public. If you don't stop to chew over his words carefully, they sounded as if they came from a bastard. If Shirley hit the jackpot, he would agree in his head, but the words coming out of his mouth would lead to a very different outcome.

[Senbon Zakura]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Yume: Dream

to: and

Kibo: Hope

You know, one thing about Lelouch which irritated me was him trying to "save face" at all costs in public. If you don't stop to chew over his words carefully, they sounded as if they came from a bastard. If Shirley hit the jackpot, he would agree in his head, but the words coming out of his mouth would lead to a very different outcome.

Lelouche did sort of have to think fast in most situations if he was arguing with someone of high intellect and they threw something loopy at him.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

I was always irked by the fact, that she was killed, because she just happened to say the "wrong" thing, in the wrong time, in the wrong person. It was just "ah."

And yeah, this is what she said to Lelouch, characteristic of her, even in the last moments.
It really was a hit below the belt, considering all the crap she has gotten that epi, with her memories returning, and in the end, when she decides she is forgiving Lelouch and wants to assist him, an un-stable Rolo, starts shooting. Worse than Greek tragedy, honest.

You're all right sky. You know that? You're all right.

Originally Posted by ginran

Also, I dont know if this is true or not since I read it on Wikipedia......but apparently Shirley's design and name are references to Anne Shirley from the anime Anne of Green Gables. can anyone confirm this?

I read the same thing on Wikipedia as well, but I can't confirm from any other source. However, I have seen Anne Shirley from the anime and they do look fairly similar.

Originally Posted by incorrupts

Lol, i was not happy at all either, but i was talking about Shirley. I mean, i still believe her death scene could be orchestrated a bit better {mostly, with Innocent Days track, that would make it epic in my mind} but overall, it was a great one. Shirley, spending her last times, saying the things she did, was pure win.

You know, one of these someone should redub the music for her death scene. Put the Innocent Days song in and then see how it looks/sounds. I think it's doable.

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Yume: Dream

to: and

Kibo: Hope

Ah, thanks.

You know, one thing about Lelouch which irritated me was him trying to "save face" at all costs in public. If you don't stop to chew over his words carefully, they sounded as if they came from a bastard. If Shirley hit the jackpot, he would agree in his head, but the words coming out of his mouth would lead to a very different outcome.

Well, unfortunately it just came with the lifestyle of a liar and deceiver and one who had brought himself down the demon path. That being said, I was always mad at how, even though it was lie, he congratulated Rolo for killing Shirley.

[azul120]

I think Lelouch wanted to keep Rolo off his guard so he could kill him. To do otherwise would be too risky, Rolo's paralysis Geass being the thing to be wary of.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by azul120

I think Lelouch wanted to keep Rolo off his guard so he could kill him. To do otherwise would be too risky, Rolo's paralysis Geass being the thing to be wary of.

Well, this has been debated before and I don't really wanna go down that road again. Yes, I understand Lelouch had his reasons for doing that, but it doesn't change the fact that it pisses me off.

[yezhanquan]

I always associate Shirley with Bleach's Orihime. Hence, my slight interest in her having a Geass. Not to mention that Rukia had her damsel moments as well.

I'm willing to bet that even the sight of a bloodied Shirley (from her overworked Geass eye) would not get him to change the stuff that comes out of his trap. In fact, you can just imagine the "Silence!" that will come out when she tries to sway him.