Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[winter45]

Originally Posted by Jays

How can anyone say that the fights in CE were better than this? Everytime a fight broke down in SEED, it was a garuantee that Kira and co would go berzerk and romp ass on every single thing. There was no element of unpredictability, no surprise, no emotion, that kinda thing. However, the same cannot be said for 00.

I keep thinking back to when Graham just out skilled Johann using a weaker mobile suit, and I could just feel the tension and feelings that Graham had. Samething goes for when Setsuna ingages Ali everytime, you could feel the hate in his voice and so forth. Although in small doses, it feels much better, and is certainly something to look forward to.

I totally agree except the fight between shiin vs kira... To me this is the best fight in CE. But i thought it was lame at the end how kira just rocks up and says he wasnt trying....

But yeah Grahm fights are full of emotion in my opinion. Ali ones are not bad when the director and team moulds into that manner. Hence y my statements on grunts make me drool in 00. Nice to see some grunt lovin attention in 00

But i can see y some viewers may have some gripes about the emotion and tension in some of these battles. Me personally i dont mind 00 how it is. But for others CE style is more to their flavour. (Me personally i didnt understand the whole lets fight for peace while arleady decimated fleets and armies of mass magnitude.)

[wingdarkness]

I don't know how the scenario will present itself, but Graham and Ali have to fight once...WIth him having a Gundam this is now possible...I don't think Ali is dying until next season anyways...He's built up so much cache in the last 3, 4 eps I just can't see it...GN Overflag verses Zwei would be ecstasy...

I mean these guys fight almost exactly the same yet on opposite ends of the personality spectrum...The GAR levels would make your monitor pi$$ on itself....

Originally Posted by VCV

My personal view, is that Ali killed Kinue as a "favour" for Harvey, with the intention all along that he expected to be paid back in return with a free GN-X.

Harvey refused, so Ali whacked him with Alejandro's blessing. At least, that's how I see it.

That sounds fair, but the connection to Alejandro is just so subtle...There's almost nothing to grab onto, but you know it's there...No way Ali has Veda-eyes, but it seems as fair to speculate Corner helped him with the Zwei thievery as it is to say he simply went thru some of Harvey's files on Zwei...If Ali has Veda-eyes as Johan speculated, then just take me off this planet cause I'm gonna leave my body with OMGness...

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by winter45

I totally agree except the fight between shiin vs kira... To me this is the best fight in CE. But i thought it was lame at the end how kira just rocks up and says he wasnt trying....

You're selectively remembering. Not only did he say that, but he later *proved* that his words held meaning and he wasn't just telling a white lie when he made Shinn look completely silly and then just decimated Rey without even getting scratched in space.

So yeah, Kira didn't try then...and Freedom was out of Lacus Dust. And when he got a recharge and turned his skills back on, bad pilots and fake aces were humiliated and that was that.

Now back to G00, as much as I'd love to see Graham vs. Ali, they haven't even come across each other and there's not much of a reason for Ali to go after Graham one way or another. Odds are, Setsuna's going to fry him as a mid-boss, with Alejandro with or without Ribbons being the 11th hour boss in some crazyass MA or evil gundam ala providence.

[winter45]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

You're selectively remembering. Not only did he say that, but he later *proved* that his words held meaning and he wasn't just telling a white lie when he made Shinn look completely silly and then just decimated Rey without even getting scratched in space.

So yeah, Kira didn't try then...and Freedom was out of Lacus Dust. And when he got a recharge and turned his skills back on, bad pilots and fake aces were humiliated and that was that..

Well i should of known better you would of jumped in to defend CE even tho i wasnt bashing it. Im merely just pointing out the dfference on the battlefield of the quality of the general pilots, and in regards to shinn vs kira it was a good fight, but i honestly felt it was cheapened at the end. Its still a myth today if its production crew that had limited time for animation time frames (wife screwed up big time) or is it was deliberatly done this way for the later battles.

Plus i wont reply what i really think, i dont want to start a flame wars in 00 threads. So ill just smile and nod my head

[06294086]

Originally Posted by Red_Eclipse

CBs have more than one thing that sets them back from being god-like unlike those of Gundam Seed/Destiny being that they are:

1. Very few in numbers.
2. Young in age.
3. Inexperienced compared to pilots like Graham and Ali.

How do you make up for it? Super mechs with super abilities and features to be mentioned later on in the series. It's only natural of course... The fact that they are saved in the nick of time is due to the fact that this is ANIME and unlike real life (which is boring) they can't die within the first season, because then there wouldn't be a second season...

Yep, it's an anime and so "the main characters" cannot die that fast... so I guess there is no other alternative beside new system/mode/weapon/ms or whatever...

I'm still not sure whether there will be second season though...

As long as the enemies also got newer stuffs ot there are new enemies appear, the show will go on which is what I expect

It's not like I'm not happy seeing new stuffs appearing...

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Dg86

..and there's not much of a reason for Ali to go after Graham one way or another.

^Uuuuuuuuuuuh....Ali has a Gundam....Graham wants to fight a Gundam...Gundam Zwei killed Howard Mason...If Graham just sees Zwei, that's a reason to want and fight it...

Please keep up ...

[rpgman1]

Graham does have a good reason to go after the one who murdered his comrade Howard Mason and that is Throne Gundam Zwei. Of course, he'll wonder where are the other two and why does the pilot in Zwei fight differently.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

^Uuuuuuuuuuuh....Ali has a Gundam....Graham wants to fight a Gundam...Gundam Zwei killed Howard Mason...If Graham just sees Zwei, that's a reason to want and fight it...

Please keep up ...

Depends.

Ali already has an alias within the AEU army. If he's planning on heading into outer space then obviously he would have to link up with the AEU army to get the logistics he would need to repair Zwei and get it up into space.

So by that point everyone will know that Ali did what no one could do, "Capture a gundam"

[U<3Anime]

Originally Posted by Jays

How can anyone say that the fights in CE were better than this? Everytime a fight broke down in SEED, it was a garuantee that Kira and co would go berzerk and romp ass on every single thing. There was no element of unpredictability, no surprise, no emotion, that kinda thing. However, the same cannot be said for 00.

*sigh*

I enjoyed fights in SEED, it had tension and emotion, especially how kira and athruns screams at each other "KIRAAAAAAAAAAA! >=O ATHRUUUNNNNNNN! ;O;". The last few episodes had me at the edge of seat because people were dying left and right. It was all good.

On the other hand, GSD is a snooze fest. The fights were just filled with poor choreography, no tension, no surprise, no emotion, and totally one sided. Every time Kira shows up and his theme music play, you know it was pretty much good game for everyone. My god, the final battle was one of the most boring and one sided battles I have ever seen in an anime. Kira and his friends were totally unscratched. They even get to pose at the end and show off their bling bling gundams. I think I have mentioned this before already, due to the those recycled animations, you can pretty much predict what attacks they were going to use. But there's actually one good thing about those recycled animations believe it or not. It actually helped the developers of the game Rengou vs ZAFT(a game which I adore) to create movesets for the suits.

Overall, I'm fine if someone likes SEED better because it's actually decent. It also brought back some popularity into the Gundam franchise. However, I'll have to disagree if someone says GSD is better than 00, especially the fights. Plus, we're only halfway into 00 so there is a lot more remained to be seen.


As for my actual impression of ep 22, it was definitely kick ass.

Grunts actually displaying teamwork and using formations to defeat the gundams? awesome

Michael dead? awesome

Trans-am mode? Holy shit, it's zeroshift/f-91/v-max/cloud's limit break, and etc.....!

One thing that bothers me is how quick Eins blew up. It only took a quick few shots from Zwei's pistol to blow it up? Whatever happened to that tough gundam armor? Or did Ali pretty much sliced it in half already with that buster sword?

[Darkside]

Originally Posted by Cloudmaster101

i think the old man still alive! thats bulletproof glass!! cause the thing didnt shatter, just left a mark.

I dunno the golden guy is pretty beastly, haven't you ever played Goldeneye?!

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by U<3Anime

One thing that bothers me is how quick Eins blew up. It only took a quick few shots from Zwei's pistol to blow it up? Whatever happened to that tough gundam armor? Or did Ali pretty much sliced it in half already with that buster sword?

It was the buster sword. And actually I never saw any of the follow up shots fired by trigger happy Ali connect.

[tabun]

Trigger happy as he may be, I think he's in for a good stompin'

[Gevurah]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Actually I already though about this before: What if Ali really is one of those androids, like Tieria and Ribbons, and just doesn't know? I read somewhere they are supposed to help research humans, so maybe each one has a special field they are responsible for and Ali is the "warloving" one. After he shot Michael and Attacked Johann, he moved faster than a human should be able to...

No, I don't think that at all. Someone who is well trained in all aspects of combat, especially as a merc, and had the element of surprise will always seem faster than normal. Ali is just that good and cybernetics or whatnot have nothing to do with his skill as a killing machine.

[Derringer]

Originally Posted by The Small One

It is kind of strange, that a person intelligent enough to predict something like this happening didn't think about using pulletproof glass or some kind of body double.
Personally I probably would have designed this capsule as a nearly undestructible autonomous system, which can be only opened from the inside and with the only possible influence from outside beeing the wakeup signal.

You know it's still pretty possible that wasn't Aeolia's true body in that coffin.

[tabun]

Originally Posted by The Small One

BTW, am I the only one, who thinks that Graham's Flag getting modified with a GN Drive is kind of hypocritical?
First he swears he is only using his flag (which actually doesn't make sense in the first place, since the machine is just a weapon and a soldier shouldn't hesitate to use the best available weapon to fulfill his mission) and then he gets it upgraded, which basically makes it a completely different machine.

I might be going out on a limb here, but potentially, you could build a Porsche motor into a VW Beetle. That would lead only to the Beetle falling apart if accelerated too harshly ^^ You see what I'm getting at?

Sure, the new engine will enhance the Flag, but you saw what the g-forces did to the (unprotected) Graham when he fought at the Flag's limit before. Although we do not have any clue of the other specifications, I think it's safe to say that the Flag will not be as powerful with a GN-drive as the Laguna-made copies of the Throne units, who are supposed to have been built around the drive.

And even without that logic, are you not excited about that trump card? Having Graham right there, in the background, with his sense of honor, his hatred & an upgraded Flag at his disposal... surely a deus ex machina to be reckoned with ;D

[Cruel]

Originally Posted by Derringer

You know it's still pretty possible that wasn't Aeolia's true body in that coffin.

Unless he was already dead and it was just a test to see if the world changed? By an evil person shooting his coffin, that would mean it did not change.

However, I'll believe he was in cold sleep. I don't think that was his real body. Either that or it was bullet proof glass.

[JediNight]

The Overflag was still designed by Eifmann, all he's doing is adding the GN-drive to it so he can fight on more even footing. The Overflag is almost definitely made from weaker armor than the Gundams, and a smaller armament of weaponry, so it will still be his superior piloting in the Flag frame that wins.

Although he better hope he doesn't face off against Trans-Am

[4Tran]

This is an episode that I want to like, and I guess that I do to a degree, but it's nowhere nearly as fulfilling as I think that it could.

- I think that it's great that they want to show the GN-Xs defeat the Trinitys through superior tactics and numbers, but the way the creators went about it is just about the silliest way imaginable. And, of course, they let them get away again.

- The whole scene with Ali taking out the Trinitys is portrayed all wrong. Even if it only took him thirty seconds to get into Throne Zwei and get it up and running, those thirty seconds should have turned him into a corpse. The director was wise to cut away until he was back in action.

- Are the creators trying to get the audience to feel sorry for Neena? I'm not sure how that's supposed to work after all that earlier moustache-twirling.

- Based on Aeolia's last broadcast, it looks like he really did believe in what he proclaimed to the world in his original broadcast. However, this would imply that Eifman was wrong in thinking that Celestial Being's ultimate goal was something altogether different. This apparent contradiction will have to be resolved somehow.

- I'm rather surprised that the creators decided to give Exia such a shounen fighting anime-esque power up. Since I don't think that they're particularly well done in that genre, it's no surprise that I don't like it here either. In any case, how does having more engine output automatically give Exia all that extra performance? Or is that one of the questions we shouldn't be asking?

- It's getting more and more obvious that Livonze and Alejandro are supposed to be our main villains.

Originally Posted by The Small One

This isn't the first time... they should learn to finish off their enemies, before they come back stronger.

That's the third time in three consecutive episodes (and they even did it twice in this one).

Originally Posted by The Small One

BTW, I really hope, that Aeolia didn't just record this message, but also locked the door, for Alejandro and Ribbons to be trapped there forever...
Though I still have to come back to my question from last time: For how long are they already on the moon? And where is the Toilet?

They're pretty much the main designated villains of Gundam 00, so they shouldn't have too much trouble getting out.

Originally Posted by duckroll

They've been on the moon for about 2 days now.

Do they have water?
Do they have food?
Do they have enough air?
Where's the toilet?

It is a little strange that Livonze and Alejandro have been standing there for as long as they have. Luckily, most space suits also come with diapers...

Originally Posted by Trine

Sergei is really emerging as one of my favorite characters, I don't think Soma would be alive right now if it wasn't for him keeping her under control. Chasing the Thrones could have led into a trap or a situation disadvantageous to the squadron. I would pick him over Sumeragi as a tactical forecaster any day of the week.

Ambushes of this nature are very unlikely in the show for the same reason they're unlikely in real life - they're just too risky and too difficult to pull off.

Originally Posted by Child_of_Sierra

Also, the UN is being fairly bold in assuming that they are in control, since their possession of 30 GN drives. (do they even know these are different from the GN drives of the 4 main gundams?)

They take such an aggressive stance without even considering the possibility that CB may have more than 30 other gundams themselves (afterall, the alibi that a traitor leaked the tech implies that only a small amount of units could have been smuggled).

The particular numbers aren't all that important; as far as the blocs know, the performance of the GN-Xs have a rough parity with the known Gundams. Moreover, they feel confident that they can mass-produce the mobile suit - given their ridiculous superiority in manufacturing capability, what Celestial Being can bring to bear are just about immaterial. And as Dean_the_Young brought up, the lack of more Gundams showing up to cause trouble is a good sign that there's not all that many out there.

Originally Posted by Demongod86

See that's the thing with weak gundams...in order to keep them alive, you constantly have to have them pulling out this new never-before-seen-trick that all of the enemies are magically unaware of.

It's not really a problem with weak Gundams, it's more that this has been the modus d'operandi for much of the writing thus far.

Originally Posted by Morgun

True, that's why I said that the techs probably don't even know what the system they're building even does.

This is probably untrue for all sorts of reasons. In the real world, if the technicians didn't have a very good idea of what they were doing, then it wouldn't work.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

The V2 Gundam, God Gundam and Turn A Gundam (although nobody really knows what it did when it suddenly vanished in one episode).

V2 never displayed super-high acceleration in the anime. I'm not going to venture a guess at Exia's acceleration in that scene, but I imagine that quite a few mobile suits would be in the general range.

[winter45]

Just realised with the whole exia turning redish color. Wouldnt that signify more towards evil? opposed something holy? I understand the whole red color makes suits go faster but i wonder if the directors may have red color exia have a religious notion behind it?

Or im just looking too deep into it.

[Gevurah]

Originally Posted by winter45

Just realised with the whole exia turning redish color. Wouldnt that signify more towards evil? opposed something holy? I understand the whole red color makes suits go faster but i wonder if the directors may have red color exia have a religious notion behind it?

Or im just looking too deep into it.

Nah, just a bit deeper than what most would. Usually a reddish hue signifies some kind of overdrive mode or being brought to the limit. It helps instill a bit of fear to enemies as well.