True Tears - Episode 13 [END] Discussion / Poll

[greyhawk]

God knows I had to try to sympathize with the characters. Even so, it was no escapist entertainment I long for in an anime series, but rather some grudging acceptance. Not to mention there weren't really any touching moments or anything that would "make my heart waver". Mind if I say the ending was so typical?
Much as I hate to say it, watching real-life dramas seems a bit more enjoyable. I think I won't give True Tears another shot, meh. Well, there goes another series with a good start but became so-so at the end (is Clannad included, u guess)

[Ascaloth]

Watched Episode 13.

I was eating a takeaway dinner while watching this episode tonight. I should have known it was a mistake to bother with a takeaway dinner at all. The writers somehow made me eat enough of my own words for dinner.

GJ, Shinichiro. You were an idiot for the most part, but you did manage to set things right in the end. And you know what, I'm willing to give the guy a pass just for that.

9/10. Blog article coming either tonight or later in the week, depending on whether I can finish my schoolwork in time. Expect a Triple Critique in the near future, too.

[Luapman]

@Grey_Moon: I'm not trying to "pigeon hole". There are a number of studies/surveys done on international views on relationships. One such study found that on average Japanese men only kissed their wives/girlfriends once every two days. A majority of those men also felt working and paying bills is a sign of affection. Also in another study most Japanese men described their wife/girlfriend as a partner but not a friend. Another study showed that despite the very low divorce rate in Japan it has one of the highest marital dissatisfaction rates among modernized countries. In my opinion this is not a healthy societal norm for any culture and shows that conclude as True Tears did only goes to reinforce this norm with the younger generations of Japan.

That aside I feel all other aspects of the series were very well done and most enjoyable.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Luapman

@Grey_Moon: I'm not trying to "pigeon hole". There are a number of studies/surveys done on international views on relationships. One such study found that on average Japanese men only kissed their wives/girlfriends once every two days. A majority of those men also felt working and paying bills is a sign of affection. Also in another study most Japanese men described their wife/girlfriend as a partner but not a friend. Another study showed that despite the very low divorce rate in Japan it has one of the highest marital dissatisfaction rates among modernized countries. In my opinion this is not a healthy societal norm for any culture and shows that conclude as True Tears did only goes to reinforce this norm with the younger generations of Japan.

That aside I feel all other aspects of the series was very well done and most enjoyable.

Fair points..


On the subject of choosing Hiromi, anyone else get the feeling of mumcon going on there. I look at Hiromi and I see a mini-shin's mum....

[TrueKnight]

Excellent series.
Eventhough they tend to over-DRAMATIZE most of the parts, the execution was beautiful. This is one of the better show this season along with the finale of Gundam 00 season 1 and the Spice and Wolf.

[Luapman]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Fair points..


On the subject of choosing Hiromi, anyone else get the feeling of mumcon going on there. I look at Hiromi and I see a mini-shin's mum....

Huh... now that you mention it it does kinda smack of an Oedipus complex.

[Khaos]

This was a Noe ending on all scales!
It was clear form the beginning, that Hiromi and Shin will end up together, but in the end, Noe outshines them all. She matured more than anyone else in this story. While being the catalyst for the other people to realize their own feelings and leading them a step forward, she herself did at least two steps and jumped over them all.
At the end when she stood there with the slightly grown hair and a face where all that childish naivety vanished and instead showed a warm knowing easeful smile, I almost fell in love.
Hiromi and Shin, Ai and Miyokichi continue living their normal everyday lives while Jun is probably the most tragic character and I think it's sad, that they didn't make more out of his story.

[cebukitty]

Originally Posted by Luapman

Huh... now that you mention it it does kinda smack of an Oedipus complex.

I see it too ^ ^

[b0nyb0y]

Originally Posted by Luapman

@Grey_Moon: I'm not trying to "pigeon hole". There are a number of studies/surveys done on international views on relationships. One such study found that on average Japanese men only kissed their wives/girlfriends once every two days. A majority of those men also felt working and paying bills is a sign of affection. Also in another study most Japanese men described their wife/girlfriend as a partner but not a friend. Another study showed that despite the very low divorce rate in Japan it has one of the highest marital dissatisfaction rates among modernized countries. In my opinion this is not a healthy societal norm for any culture and shows that conclude as True Tears did only goes to reinforce this norm with the younger generations of Japan.

That aside I feel all other aspects of the series were very well done and most enjoyable.

I think if you set all the psychology studies aside and focus on what's implied throughout the series, you'll come to understand Shin and his choice more. It has been stated for so many times through so many threads about relationship Shin and Hiromi had since their childhood. Though we got only as far as the one-sandal walk during flashback, their friendship probably started even earlier (as their parents know each other). They've been friends probably as far as they were born. And the puppy love started to grew on them as they did that one-sandal walk. That's why they both cherished the memory so much. The thing to complicates their situation was the loss of Hiromi's parents, and the lie Shin's mom gave her. That was the reason why we saw her being distant from Shin. Just because we didn't see their relationship since childhood doesn't mean that there isn't any. True Tears is quite a different beast compared to other series that stick so closely to cliche' plots and stuff. So I don't see the needs to even try to make a comparison between them. It's just so apple-to-orange, really.

And if you followed their line of actions closely, for the whole time, Shin was longing for her, and Hiromi was longing for him. Just look at how Shin embraced Hiromi when realizing that she wasn't injured from accident, how Hiromi did everything to let Shin knows of her feelings, or how they ran toward each other when they parted. If this doesn't count as strong love developed from friendship, then I don't really know what is.

Then, try to compare that relationship with what Shin had with Noe. Though it was very mutual, it's still in a number of months (compared to years that Shin-Hiromi counterpart). And more than anything, Shin-Noe pair started with a false premise. Shin forced himself into the relationship because he already handed Hiromi over to Jun. That's why I'm glad that this relationship is broken. Noe definitely deserves a real relationship.

[Liddo-kun]

Ahhh!!!! Just watched the final episode. So happy, I'm sooo happy. XD


*cough...sorry about that just can't control myself. It's obviuos I gave this ep. a perfect 10. Hiromi, I wish you and Shin a good life.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by b0nyb0y

It has been stated for so many times through so many threads about relationship Shin and Hiromi had since their childhood. Though we got only as far as the one-sandal walk during flashback, their friendship probably started even earlier (as their parents know each other). They've been friends probably as far as they were born. And the puppy love started to grew on them as they did that one-sandal walk. That's why they both cherished the memory so much. The thing to complicates their situation was the loss of Hiromi's parents, and the lie Shin's mom gave her. That was the reason why we saw her being distant from Shin. Just because we didn't see their relationship since childhood doesn't mean that there isn't any. True Tears is quite a different beast compared to other series that stick so closely to cliche' plots and stuff. So I don't see the needs to even try to make a comparison between them. It's just so apple-to-orange, really.

Actually we can't say that at all. For all we know is after Shin "saved" her from the road, the just looked at each other from afar.

And them being friends from birth is something i can't easily swallow, especially since Shin's mum hates Hiromi's mum and everything that represents her.

[night train]

I enjoyed the episode but something is bugging me after watching it. Who was Hiromi talking to after Shin left the house to show Noe his book? From the conversation alone, it seems fishy and kinda implied the guy had been there before since he invited himself over. Lastly, the look on Shin's mom face while overhearing their exchange is also of concern. Wished they would of explained that part.

[Luapman]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Actually we can't say that at all. For all we know is after Shin "saved" her from the road, the just looked at each other from afar.

And them being friends from birth is something i can't easily swallow, especially since Shin's mum hates Hiromi's mum and everything that represents her.

I second this. The points raised previously certainly denote affection but not what I would consider friendship.

[Solafighter]

Great last episode!

An ending, i kinda expected.


All in one, this is a great anime.

[b0nyb0y]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Actually we can't say that at all. For all we know is after Shin "saved" her from the road, the just looked at each other from afar.

And them being friends from birth is something i can't easily swallow, especially since Shin's mum hates Hiromi's mum and everything that represents her.

On the first note, all I can say is, to each his own. If it happens to be something otherwise, then it wouldn't make sense in the first place. Hence the complaint Luapman has. When something feels wrong, it doesn't necessarily means that such something is really wrong, you know. Maybe it's just the view you have. Once you shift your perspective a little, you can see things in a new light... Just my friendly 2 cents.

And for the second part, I don't think it's fair to mix parents' issue with Shin-Hiromi. If they shared the same sentiment Shin's mom has with Hiromi's mom, I don't think they'll even be friends and spending time together in the festival in the first place. And if they despised each other, there would also be no need for her to run after him, and no reason for him to accompany her. Their closeness in relationship was implied quite a lot in that one short scene, even though they hadn't even spoken one single word...

[golthin]

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

but the winner of this has gotta be aiko , i mean shes gonna get nobuse right? nobuse > 10 x shin any day

Very likely, the director and writers at the end show Aiko acting toward Nobuse the same way she acted toward Shin (hint hint). they still leave it up to the audience and don't give us any concrete answer.

[w00tness]

So just watched this ep and..
Im still kinda disappointed in Shin.. He still didnt do anything UNTIL Hiromi herself came up to him and clearly confessed her feelings, and told him to clear things up no matter his decision. I think that took a lot of guts on her side because she wouldnt know if Shin would be coming back to her in the end, but for her that was better than her thinking she has won when she doesnt really know Shins true feelings.

In terms of comparing Hiromi and Shins mom, its obvious that the link is for both of them, the heart of the person they liked wavered, and while that heart wavered they had no choice but to wait. For Shins mom it was even worse (assuming the wavering started after their marriage), because then she would be filled with insecurities and probably lost a lot of self confidence. Thus she projects those negative feelings unto Hiromi's mom and blames her for everything (and when Hiromi's mom died, she passed those feelings to Hiromi). Hiromi and Shins mom must love Shin and Shins dad really deeply though, for them to endure such. I for one know that my girlfriend would leave me if my heart even wavered xD, at least thats what she keeps reminding me. In terms of comparing personalities though, I dont think Hiromi shares Shin's mom's personality. She's insecure, and does "shameless" things to try to hook Shin. She obviously isnt Noe's best friend, and perhaps she doesnt like Noe at all, but do you see any Noe hate in Hiromi's eyes akin to the Hiromi hate in Shin's mom's eyes in the first few episodes? Aside from that one incident at the chicken pen in school, at the lowest point of Hiromi and Shins relationship, at least I have never seen her hate Noe.

One thing I really didnt like about this episode is Shin singing after Noe. Sure, you might really have strong feelings for Noe, and its admirable that you could finally make your choice, even though it seems that that choice hurts you deeply too, as you cry when you say you love Yuasa Hiromi as if though you wished you didnt like her but liked Noe instead. But then think about Noe, if its hard for you to say you dont love Noe, dont you think its even harder for Noe to hear that you dont love her? Noe already has the burden of being rejected by you, dont add to that burden by crying after her. If you really feel bad, cry silently. Go home and cry in your bed. Noe still loves you, dont you think it adds to her sadness to hear her loved one cry after her? I dont know, compare it with Juns tears, and I think Jun handled his feelings much better in front of the one he loved.

Noe noe noe. Shes a really strong girl. I didnt know how the writers could pull off a happy ending for her, and I guess they didnt, but they made it bittersweet in the sense that they made it such that Noe is emotionally strong enough to accept everything and move on, which I didnt expect, but am glad that it turned out such.

tldr:
Hiromi = <3
Noe = <3
Shin = DIAF

Oh, and for the record, I was on the Shin x Hiromi ship, but now that my girl "won" im kinda disappointed, because the last few episodes really sealed my dislike for Shin.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by w00tness

But then think about Noe, if its hard for you to say you dont love Noe, dont you think its even harder for Noe to hear that you dont love her?

Yah I thought that was a very good scene and I too think it wasn't a case of does he love Hiromi or Noe, but which one he loves more.

All of the theories of how deep their relationship was before the show started aside, I think that the good old loves her for the sake of loving her to be far more eloquent and fitting then all of the complicated reasonings put together.

Talk about complicated, I am going to miss all the discussions about the chickens.

Kimikiss frogs fail
TT chickens win

[JCMS]

Noe

I was sure to win after the first half of the episode =/

[DragoonKain3]

*facepalm*

Probably the biggest complaint I have IS the ending scene. Hiromi was spot on, I can give you that. She knows that Noe still has a place in Shin's heart, and so that's why she was rejecting him at first.

But Shin more or less proposing to Hiromi, by saying he'll be with her forever? When in the scene just before, his heart was 'wavering' or 'aching'? Excuse me while I try not to gag.

By itself, Shin's proposal scene would be very moving, as it would've shown the depth of his feelings for Hiromi. But that's if they skipped from episode 10 to episode 13, and without him admitting his heart was wavering whenever he sees Noe in the middle of this episode.

But him doing that 'proposal' after episodes 11 and 12, and so soon after his 'break-up' with Noe just makes his confession looks like a whole pile of bullshit. Even from the previous two episodes, there had already been signs of him 'wavering' from Hiromi. You just can't go from 'wavering' stance to 'proposal' stance over the course of just one scene. Saying you'll be together forever with a girl implies that during that time, it's only that one girl in your heart. But with Shin wavering just the scene before, that doesn't seem to be the case, and so his words of wanting to be with Hiromi for eternity sounds hollow and empty to me despite how well the VA did his job.

Heck, even the comment by Shin after the fact was that he said that the tears come naturally if you think of the one you truly care for. From memory the only girl shown Shin cried for would be Noe, and so that makes me facepalm even more about the confession scene.

The way they should've done it is that his confession scene shouldn't have been as strong. Something along the lines of him still feeling a bit for Noe still, but in the end it's Hiromi who he feels more for and he'll try to think only of her in the future. Either that, or they have them not hook up then, but in a timeskip show that they get together in the future. Or even *gasp* a Noe ending, as long as he doesn't do the same proposal jibberish with her. However, essentially proposing to Hiromi was a very big mistake on the animator's part, as doing that requires almost absolute dedication to a girl in the protagonist's heart, and the animators have shown anything but for the last 3 episodes.

So yeah, Hiromifag here who didn't like the ending at all. While it wasn't downright atrocious, it was still a major disappointment for me. Now I'm just deciding how big a penalty I'm giving to TT's overall score, but this ain't the overall series impresssion thread, so I'll leave it at that.

Originally Posted by Luapman

WTF do japanese romance plot/script writers have with childhood friends always being the ones to hook-up when their relationship is clearly sub-par of the other choices shown.

Now THAT is the complaint I want to hear about childhood friends, and none of the 'they never win' bullshit.

That said, whether a relationship is 'better' than another doesn't have (and shouldn't have) any influence on the final pairing. In the end, it's the character's feelings that count. That just doesn't go for this archetype, but for the entire romance genre.

Of course it goes without saying that I'll almost always disagree with the childhood friend relationship being sub-par, but that's for another thread and another time. Won't be for a while though, as I'm afraid I'm still burnt out from the KimiKiss thread...