2010-11-10, 17:02 | Link #9781 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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right now, Iran is in a bit of a spot.
its keeps getting more and more sanctions cast against it, Ironically, from the EU more then the US the sanctions are in relations to their nuclear program, and would only keep progressing more and more with time. and its already having a terrible effect on Iran's economy. (just this month they had to give up on subsidizing Fuel for their population) if Iran gives up and just agrees to supervision, great. if not, and the sanctions keep on coming, they might end up doing something stupid. REALLY stupid blocking the straits of hormuz level stupid. drastically increasing oil prices stupid. if THAT happens, you're going to discover that NATO is more then willing to step in. after all, the spice must flow.
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2010-11-10, 17:09 | Link #9782 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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ICBMs use extreme high arcing flight paths to get to there targets. Firing one that close is not optimal since it going into suborbitital space and then comes back down.
However there are other smaller weapon systems that have less range that would work quite well. Consider the entire point of the Ballistic Missile Submarines built by the United States and the Soviet Union during the 1960s. They would set up shop off the coast of the opposing country...or anywhere on the planet for that matter, and wait, Okay cat and mouse with enemy Attack Submarines and surface ships...waiting for an order to launch their missiles. The entire concept was that the attack could come from anywhere and would be a first strike weapon idealy, and a certain retaliation weapon since even if the county's missles silos were destroyed, their submarine fleet would be around (assuming the Attack Subs aren't as effective as they could be). We don't know what that was off California at this time. North Korea, at least the last time I checked, did not have any missile armed submarines (they have several patrol, coastal, and midget subs). China has a few Submarines that carry nuclear missiles. Iran has pretty much jack squat when it comes to a long distance Navy. Therefore the only countries that have submarines that can launch missiles of the ICBM type are: United States Russia United Kingdom China France There a a few other countries that have Attack Submaines that can fire anti-ship missiles, but very few. Again..purpose and identification of whatever it was is the issue. Likely identification: Airplane.
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2010-11-10, 17:14 | Link #9783 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Are you aware that American credibility in making cases for war is at an all-time low, and that Israel is a de-facto international pariah already?
If Israel or America launches an unprovoked attack on Iran, there will be an outcry of epic proportions. I can NOT see any European government that would be able to lend military assistance without huge public backlash. Britain would NOT follow under Cameron. Canada? Australia? Even I would rather vote to withdraw from NATO than sending even a single German soldier into this crapshoot, and I'm still about as pro-atlantic as Germans get. If Israel or America starts this, count Europe out. |
2010-11-10, 17:20 | Link #9784 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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relax people... it's just aircraft contrails
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/11/10/cal...ion=cnn_latest CoD Black Ops gets slammed not not for its lag in the PC or lack of campaign co-op play... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Cuba-d....html?x=0&.v=4 |
2010-11-10, 17:22 | Link #9785 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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2010-11-10, 17:26 | Link #9786 | ||||||
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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There's an easy way to tell if it was China or not though. Does the George Washington battle group sail through the Taiwan straight in the next few weeks? If yes, this could have been a Chinese launch. If not, then the US government does not believe it was a Chinese missile launch.
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2010-11-10, 17:30 | Link #9787 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Depends on the situation doesn't it.
The issue seems to be what Iran is doing with their nuclear program verses what the world thinks they are doing with their nuclear program. Iran does not have a pretty track record internationally since 1979. Nor has it show itself to be friendly internationally. Iran is in a tight spot. I'm sure they have friends and all, but the Western World at least seems against them at all turns since 1979. Israel, at least until about ten years ago, had my respect for being in the situation they were in and coming out on top. Since then they've gotten a bit weird in internal policies...that or perhaps media coverage of the Palestinians has changed. Honestly it is hard to say anymore..especially since the old ways of "you won the war, the land is yours" mentality is slipping away it seems. If things went they way the wars did around there, all of those Palestinian lands would be Israel...as would Egypt up to the canal. The Palestinians would either have to adapt or leave. that would just be the way of things. The way it is now...is inconvinient, messy, and setting the stage for yet another conflict in the region. (And the military believes the "missile" was in fact an airplane...nice trick of the sun and angle though....really cool looking)
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2010-11-10, 17:32 | Link #9788 | ||
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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there is a huge difference between rattling the tiger's cage and getting into the cage with the tiger. baiting the US is favorite pastime with much of the world but that is a huge difference between supplying the Enemies of the US and putting a sub right off of US shore and firing a missile into US space. That is basically a declaration of war. And China despite all its recent advance doesn't have the capability to take the US on in a real war. despite vietnam, somila and it is recent foreign misadventure is more than capable of grinding up any other military into meatloaf and any other country into a wasteland. The problem with the US military hasn't beating another army it is what happens after the war with occupation. China isn't stupid, there is no reason for China to stick is neck out for Iran in provocating the US in such a manner. Quote:
in the past when you beat someone in a war you can keep their land and demand tribue. These days the winner has to pay the loser pathetic
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2010-11-10, 17:39 | Link #9789 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Sure. They can't name the flight (what's radar for again?), and what do experts like former Sec of Defense and NATO Ambassador Ellsworth know (who judged the missile as larger than a tomahawk)? Let's ignore the fact that the trajectory angle shown in the video didn't fit one of a flight at all (first, nearly vertical, and then gradually entering a parabel). Let's ignore that there was clearly exhaust fire to be seen, which doesn't happen with jet engines. Let's ignore that beam jets able to create contrails of this size are generally not in private hands, so they don't pop up 35 miles away from LA all of a sudden. But at the same time, we know that it absolutely never was a threat to America. And that it definitely wasn't anything non-American. Uh-huh. Well, whatever ... this is exactly how I predicted this to be played. Tomorrow, nobody will report anything about this anymore. Case closed. |
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2010-11-10, 17:45 | Link #9790 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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It is true. The United States military is perfectly fine fighting a war. Its the non-war parts that its not good at. Vietnam was from all reports from the veterans going well. The US usually won battles...the problem was finding the enemy. keeping supplies out of their hands in the South, and political bullshit. Mostly political bullshit. With both a peace movement/anti-war campaign going on back home, causualties mounting in media presentations (not nearly as high as other wars) and the like, and politics running the war effort...the United States left the war to South Vietnam to finish. They lost the war (it was their war to start with). Politics mostly lost that war. Not being able to use all your weapons effectively, and not being allowed to target now supply bases and lines made for failure policies.
Both Gulf Wars, on the other hands, learned from this and mostly kept politicians out of the militaries work. Each time allied forces completed their objectives effectively. Keeping the peace against insurgents is not what they were trained for specifically...they are their to win battles. They adapted though. Most losses are to traps, and enemy causualties are far higher than American troop losses. (As for the aircraft, remember that the film source was also in the air. It was filmed from a helicopter. At sunset. I've been in the air at sunset and things do look different than you might expect because of the bending of the light by the atmosphere. I don't recall ever seeing a contrail coming towards me while backlit by the sunset, but the glow from those going parallel to the groud was quite interesting to see from the air.)
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2010-11-10, 17:57 | Link #9791 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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yikes!
(US Schools) Blacks still doing worse in school than whites, poverty not a cause. http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...adly-in-school |
2010-11-10, 17:57 | Link #9792 | |||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Anyway, this is leading to a discussion I don't wanna lead. Please enjoy your patriotic feeling of omnipotence. Don't worry. You have no enemies in the world worth taking seriously. And should a war against Iran really start, let's see what happens. |
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2010-11-10, 18:05 | Link #9793 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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now there is a huge difference between beating the Chinese Army and then occupying China. Trying to occupied China is going to be 100x worst then Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan combine.
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2010-11-10, 18:12 | Link #9794 | |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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We can cut it short. It wouldn't happen. It couldn't happen. But I will keep in mind that you're even thinking of discussing this. Never underestimate American pride. |
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2010-11-10, 18:23 | Link #9795 | |
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2010-11-10, 18:27 | Link #9796 | ||||||||
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Nothing I said out there is beyond the USN's ability. It was SOP for decades to follow Soviet SSBNs. The Chinese subs are less capable than a typhoon. What makes you think they'd be any better at evading the USN, when they're louder, and there's less to keep track of? Quote:
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Now you're just trolling. either that or you think COIN is in anyway related to the ability to defeat a standing army in the field.
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2010-11-10, 18:29 | Link #9797 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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lulz you call that a war??? That "war" is more like our cops policing gang infested (assuming there's large scale beef and turf wars going on in the) streets of los angeles, chicago, DC, dallas, oakland etc combined. Heck let's even add mexican drug wars... and i'm sure some of our cops are helping the Federales. The military that spectacularly won the Gulf War 1 in a few days is not suited for that type of police work. |
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2010-11-10, 18:36 | Link #9798 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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There is a old rule...never get involved in a land war in Asia. The basic problem is one of numbers. 1 billionish people verses an Army with a long supply line....it doesn't work unless you just bomb the hell out of those billionish number of people first...to even the numbers.
Also the United States Territoial Waters are 12 nautical miles (with a exclusive economic zone that goes out to 200 nautical mile as per International Law). Though even that doesn't put it in international waters because 35 miles out from Los Angeles is within range of the Channel Islands, which are within US Territorial Waters. If that was a missile (and it probably wasn't) it was fired within US Territory unless someone can provide a more detailed map of US Territorial Waters around California.
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2010-11-10, 18:59 | Link #9799 | ||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Enough of this silliness. I'm off to bed. |
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2010-11-10, 19:42 | Link #9800 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Territorial Waters are out to 12 nautical miles now. They haven't been 3 miles in a long time. Since 1982 in fact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...Law_of_the_Sea United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS)
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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