2010-04-14, 16:15 | Link #8041 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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I don't think it makes much sense as a message unless it's between two people who already know what it means. If the goal is to lure somebody somewhere, just about any unusual thing would work; someone specifically chose those particular numbers.
The exception would be if someone found out the numbers somehow (coercion, torture, a confession) and put them on the door to lure someone's co-conspirators there. But if you're going to say Kyrie put the numbers there for George to see, why did she know them? Why did she think he'd care about them? Why put those in particular? I bring this up because while I don't see Kyrie-George as a likely conspiracy pairing, I could see George-Nanjo (if George is in on whatever faction Shannon is in, and why not?); however, I could see Kyrie knowing the numbers, just not Kyrie knowing the numbers and an unrelated George or Nanjo also knowing the numbers. EDIT: Creepy Author Theory musing: No one put the numbers there. The author decided to have them placed there as a cryptic reference to an unexplained mystery he/she researched while writing. It was intentionally left ambiguous who wrote them, because the author didn't know. Man, this theory lets you get away with anything. Or maybe I just was thinking about The Big Sleep. |
2010-04-14, 16:30 | Link #8042 |
Endless Witch-Doctor
Join Date: Mar 2010
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That gives me another idea.
George and Nanjo are conspiring together. Kyrie and Nanjo are conspiring together. George and Kyrie are not conspiring together. What if Nanjo was the first one to know what the numbers meant? And he told George and Kyrie separately about it. So Kyrie wrote the numbers as a message for Nanjo, but George thought Nanjo wrote a message for him. |
2010-04-14, 16:31 | Link #8043 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Well from episode 4 I deduced the account was made with yakuza money because the money was thought to be illegally obtained and anyone in the business world could've made an account like that so I thought Okonogi made it for George or Hideyoshi. Then illegal money was put inside.
Spoiler for episode 6:
My personal preference is that George is the painter, but I don't really I beleive in a hidden message in the numbers. Even though it seems Eva might have had her own interpretation of a message when she shot Battler.
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2010-04-14, 16:41 | Link #8044 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Quote:
...I'd hoped this line of reasoning would eventually lead to a contradiction, but it doesn't seem to be happening. |
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2010-04-14, 16:54 | Link #8045 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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I think Nanjo is more likely as the cog around which multiple conspiracies turn, so Seagull's scenario is more probable. We know for a fact he's involved in at least two (the Kinzo death coverup, and then his obvious lying in other episodes means he's covering for someone else for some reason). Why not several at once, all of which may or may not know of his involvement in others? I bet Natsuhi doesn't think Nanjo's in any other such groups, and I doubt she's in any others herself. Seems plausible and text-supported.
Nanjo is a desirable conspirator for various reasons. He's a doctor, he's "independent" as far as people seem to think (not family, not a servant), he seems nonthreatening, he's good at misdirecting his lying so it appears he's lying about something completely different. If anyone is in multiple groups without the groups necessarily knowing it, it would be him. This might also explain his constant survival status; even if every First Twilight were done by a different group, if Nanjo is an important member of all of them, no group will want to kill him too soon. Sort of like the anti-Battler; where Battler is apparently a member of none, Nanjo would be a member of all (or many). |
2010-04-14, 17:06 | Link #8046 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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I really would like to write a game centered around Nanjo. Just because you can do so many things with his character since you know so little about him. He's a blank slate so you can build a whole bunch of different character traits around him based on the other people. I watch House so I like Doctor = Detective stories.
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2010-04-14, 17:09 | Link #8047 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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Detective Nanjo unravels the mystery of the Gohda Accident Theory might make a pretty good short story.
Battler would be in utter disbelief. EDIT: Agh now I'm imagining every line of Nanjo's in Dr. Zoidberg's voice. "I have mail-order degrees in Murderology AND Murderonomy!" |
2010-04-14, 17:14 | Link #8048 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Quote:
This is just a guess, but in the event that Nanjo isn't an accomplice, he might be making a diagnosis for the sake of his personal safety, and then leaving a victim to die from his deliberate negligence. They can be saved, but he chooses not to because he either fears that they are the culprit, another accomplice or he'd be caught in the crossfire. Before he died, he tells his attacker that he has a sick granddaughter and didn't want to die on the island. Nanjo probably thought that Kyrie would succumb to her injury and hadn't expected her to still be alive at that point in time. |
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2010-04-14, 17:34 | Link #8049 | |||
Endless Witch-Doctor
Join Date: Mar 2010
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2010-04-14, 17:47 | Link #8050 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Quote:
Personally, I don't think a large number of accidental deaths can have anything to do with this story. Maybe a few form that pattern, but too much of it isn't what I'd call neat.
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2010-04-14, 17:58 | Link #8051 | |
Endless Witch-Doctor
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Who killed them? Wasn't everyone holed up in the guesthouse the entire time? That makes me think Kyrie, the one who faked her death, killed them. That leads to a contradiction: why would she kill Rudolf? Simple; it was Hideyoshi that killed him. Why would that happen? Because he found out Kyrie's plan. There was one red text that almost everyone has forgotten about concerning this. Even Battler forgets about it when he fights Eva-Beatrice. "The reason she changed her mind was not told to anyone, nor was it written down" Battler's theory was that Kyrie told Rudolf about the cigarette, so his theory is automatically wrong. And it was Rudolf who suggested bringing Hideyoshi with, not Kyrie, so it wasn't originally part of her plan. |
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2010-04-14, 18:03 | Link #8052 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Actually, the game makes a point of showing that there are two people who could have killed them. From the time that Kyrie's groups leaves until 30 minutes later, no one sees either Eva or Nanjo. Both of them had plenty of time to commit the murders, and both of them had access to Eva's gun (if Eva isn't the culprit and really does have a fever, Nanjo could probably just walk in and take it).
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2010-04-14, 18:12 | Link #8053 | |
Endless Witch-Doctor
Join Date: Mar 2010
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I'd rather say that small bombs are the culprit than accept Nanjo could move like a ninja. |
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2010-04-14, 18:31 | Link #8054 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Quote:
Oh, and he'd be sneaking out of his own room, so no one would have seen or touched the window.
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2010-04-14, 18:31 | Link #8055 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Quote:
We can be almost certain that there's some kind of tunnel system on the island, specifically one leading from somewhere in the main mansion area to Kuwadorian. (This tunnel may also contain the 'gold room'.) If this is true, why couldn't there be a tunnel leading from the guesthouse to the main house? One which only Nanjo and Kinzo (and probably Genji) were aware of? |
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2010-04-14, 19:06 | Link #8056 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Quote:
Assuming Nanjo did go out the window, that doesn't necessarily make him the culprit. He is a mystery aficianado -- even though it's only revealed outright in EP5, you can deduce it from some of his comments about locked room tricks -- so he might take some actions on his own that he thinks would be helpful. For instance, supposing the victims got in a gunfight with each other and Nanjo arrived on the scene afterward, he might have staked them to make sure none of them was faking it and hidden the guns so the supposed culprit wouldn't get them. Of course, this would make him look like the culprit from the perspective of the person who survived the gunfight. That would give them a reason to pull the stake out of their own body and stab Nanjo with it later. |
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2010-04-14, 19:13 | Link #8057 |
Endless Witch-Doctor
Join Date: Mar 2010
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I still doubt Nanjo intentionally murdered them, though. You can't just solve the puzzles, the solutions have to be believable too. You could solve almost every murder in Umineko with "Nanjo did it", but that doesn't explain anything. It's like the Gohda accident theory, it's possible, but not believable at all. He has the motive to lie, but not the motive to kill. I'm more inclined to believe that Nanjo didn't want to be on the island at all, and was bribed using money. He's the most important piece on the board, so everyone wants him on it. But that doesn't mean the piece itself wants to be there. I think his goal is to simply do as he's told so that he won't get killed, which clearly explains how he reacts to Eva-Beatrice before he dies.
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2010-04-14, 19:16 | Link #8058 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Quote:
And, it's almost certainly the truth or a trap. Actually, the 4-6 twilights are the tightest time for Nanjo in EP3. For every other murder, he has at least an hour where no one sees him in which he can commit the crimes. The same goes for Eva, of course, but she's a bit too obvious even for a trap.
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2010-04-14, 19:23 | Link #8059 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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2010-04-14, 19:28 | Link #8060 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Then again, it's also true that EP3 was supposedly made to be easier. I doubt it's as easy as "Nanjo killed everyone", but it should more simple than the other EPs in some way. Also, while Nanjo is shoved in our faces, it's done a bit too soon in the story. They actually comment on the fact that he's almost the only person who could have killed Rosa. Many readers will see that, think "oh, it can't be that easy", and discount Nanjo as a suspect prematurely.
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