Maria-sama ga Miteru 4th - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

[4Tran]

In detail, this episode might have tried to touch on too many different events, but I thought that it worked out on the whole quite well. Most importantly, as always, the tone and mood were pulled off very nicely, and the character interactions were as entertaining as usual.

In this episode, I felt that Kanako's story was rushed for a good reason: it doesn't really seem all that good, and it doesn't involve any one else from the main cast. As it was, there were only two ways to go about showing it; either make it its own episode or combining it with other events. I'm quite happy that they went with the second choice. On top of all that, it did soften Kanako's rough spots somewhat, and I imagine that she'll be easier to warm to in the future episodes.

Originally Posted by Molenir

Yuuko is someone Kanoko knew and looked up to. How she knew her isn't explained.

It wasn't explained outright, but we do know that her father was Yuuko's basketball coach, so it's quite possible for them to have been in the same school. The less likely alternative is that Yuuko went to Kanako's house a lot; enough for them to form a close friendship.

Originally Posted by Molenir

However Kanokos father and Yuuko hooked up, and somehow this destroyed Yuuko's life. Or at least Kanoko thought it had, and because of this, she couldn't forgive her father. As much as I like Marimite, this result for Kanoko seemed a bit trite. If it had been my father sleeping with another woman, I know I wouldn't have been able to forgive him just like that.

The "destryoing Yuuko's life" part is suggestive of more than simply having sex with her. I think that the implication is that he got Yuuko pregnant. And of course, the fact that Yuuko is going by the same family name as Kanako tells us that either she's married to Kanako's father, or that the marriage had already been planned (it's far more likely to be the former).

It's a very unusual relationship, and one where I can certainly sympathize with Kanako's antipathy, but a lot of the relevant details were glossed over: how/why Kanako's parents divorced, Yuuko's precise relationship to both Kanako and her father, where Kanako's mother is, and so on. Despite having never read the novels, I still get the feeling that putting all that information in wouldn't have worked for the anime.

And so the most important problem for Kanako is her belief that Yuuko's life was ruined; which is sort of resolved by Yuuko being obviously happy with the relationship, and the presence of little Chikako. It's a bit of a sudden resolution, but it's also heavily implied that Kanako went to live with her mother after her parents divorced, and that she's had basically no communication with her father and Yuuko for about half a year. Earlier in the episode, we saw Kanako with three tickets, so she was probably entertaining the idea of giving them to three people: most likely her mother, father and Yuuko. That'd mean that she was closer to accepting her father's relationship, but she wasn't quite there yet.

Originally Posted by Shigan

I didn't really understand why Kanako is so angry at her father thou, being a non-novelist. But I guess it went something along the lines of her parents separating, and if that wasn't enough, her father went and knocked up Kanako's sempai whom she looked up to, and thus- from kanako's POV- ruined her basket career, while Yuuko in reality was hurt during a game and went to her father because she fell in love with him. No?

Not quite. What probably happened was that Yuuko got hurt and went to her former coach for support. They fell in love, and she later got pregnant. This must have happened after the divorce, so Kanako wouldn't have known anything about the relationship until they announced the pregnancy.

Originally Posted by Shigan

Grah, I hope this season makes Touko more likeable, I know she is supposed to be but I still can't see it. I was never to hot about neither of Yumi's alternatives for souer-ship. Touko being how she is, and Kanako was just creepy at times. I was actually hoping, back in season 2 that a mini-Sei would pop up and steal Yumi away lol, oh well.

A mini-Sei would be an impossibility: Sei's relationship is predicated on her having much higher status than the ordinary, first-year Yumi. This kind of relationship can't be built by a first-year student because Yumi herself is currently the most looked-up-to among the second-year students except for Shimako and because Yumi herself is far from being the naive student that Sei could take advantage of. Sure she still has her weak points (and a certain sense of naivety), but those aren't the kind of things that a younger student can exploit.

[Matrim]

I find Kanako so grating and I am not even sure why. Usually I like tall anime girls. I suspect it has something to do with her seiyuu, when she voices emo characters they tend to get on my nerves for some reason.
The episode was OK, Touko is rapidly growing on me and a more decisive Yuumi is also more interesting than Yuumi fro mseason one. Other than that, it was a bit boring as I have never been able to see Kanako as any sort of contender for Yuumi's soeur's spot (I haven't read the novel or been spoiled but I will be quite shocked if Kanako wins "the race"), so the drama in the very end of the episode wasn't that dramatic to me.
While I applaud the author for giving Kanako a reason to hate men which was better than Sachiko's "I hate my arranged marriage but I never consider that my father probably also had one and that just might be the reason why he has lover(s)", its presentation in the anime came a bit rushed and the resolution looked too easy somewhat. Call me cynical, but I expected Kanako to accuse Yuuko she was lying about loving her father.
Unintenional comedy when Kanako "hid" among Yuumi, Yoko and Sei...how come Yuuko didn't see her even though she is so much taller than everyone is one of the mysteries of the universe.
Oh, well, at least there was a murderous Yoshino look and Shimako in yukata, so overall the episode was not bad.

[Slick_rick]

Originally Posted by Matrim

While I applaud the author for giving Kanako a reason to hate men which was better than Sachiko's "I hate my arranged marriage but I never consider that my father probably also had one and that just might be the reason why he has lover(s)"

Are you trying to say that's not a good reason to have a certain dislike of men? Or are you trying to justify her father's cheating? I understand people are human and sometimes cheat but trying to justify it with a reason like, "I'm unhappy in this marriage so I will make both my wife and child suffer for it", doesn't really fly with me. He openly flaunts his relationships with other women so much so that even people outside the family are well aware of it. This is certainly going to have an effect on a child. I doubt he lets his wife have such relationships but feels somehow that it's alright for himself. That kind of hypocrisy and his lack of care about what it does to his wife and child doesn't earn him any sympathy from me.

Sachiko also has to deal with Kashiwagi's, who also doesn't take other people's feelings into account when he speaks or acts, and her impending marriage to a gay man(him). The anime counterpart honestly is far more likable that the novel one because those scenes are often cut. I can see how this can cause a dislike of men. Should she try to overcome it? Yes, but I'm not going to absolve the men around her that caused it of blame.

Kanako's situation was handled horribly(in the novel especially) and I can't help but worry about if in the end Sachiko's situation won't be as badly handled.

[Matrim]

Are you trying to say that's not a good reason to have a certain dislike of men?

Not really, as far as reasons for such gross generalisations go, it is as good as most or better, I reckon. I just think it puts Sachiko in a somewhat hypocritical position. And while Sachiko's father at least has some, if lame, excuse, Kanako's was seen by her as the one who not only left her mother but also hooked up with Kanako's friend (and probably role model too) who also happens to be, well, a bit out of his league agewise. And ruined her life to boot.

[Droplet]

Loved every minute of it.

[Droplet]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

I have to say I utterly hated this episode and how they handled the Kanako situation. I already knew it was coming because I read summaries of the novel but I didn't like this one bit. Both the novel and anime handled it badly but it was probably tens times worse in the novel.

Kanako's hate of all men was unjustified certainly but if my father couldn't keep his penis in pants around my friends I'd hate the idiot too. The way they resolved this was a bad message to young girls. Somehow because they were in "love" then it makes the whole situation acceptable and some sort of inconsequential issue. If someone got my daughter in a situation like that I'd kill him. I have some sympathy for her, though not much, as she was as much as fault as Kanako's father but unlike her he is a grown adult. I have no pity for such a person.

The worst part of this episode was the comparison of Yumi to Yuuko. I seriously hope Yumi will have the smarts to keep her legs closed around Sachiko's father. I mean I'd hate to flash forward a year or so and see her carrying around her very own bastard. The "love" thing also pisses me off as it not like this love isn't actually two people with problems in their lives, bad marriage and losing the thing she loves to do, taking comfort in each other to escape their problems. Such relationships don't last and it's the poor child who will pay for having been born to two irresponsible people.

I love Maria-sama and its lightheartedness but when the author trys to deal with serious issues she fails. 1/10 this episode. All the YumixTouko, YumixSachiko moments and even Sei doesn't make up for the fail I see this episode as.

I agree with you. I myself don't think much of a male adult who divorced an adult to be with a high school girl and make a baby with her. Still a 10/10 episode for me though. Sue me if you think I got low standards.

[Oxtail]

Kanako's story was pretty weak in the novels, too, so I didn't expect much. Not one of the stronger episodes because of the source material.

But I absolutely love the Yumi/Touka interactions. Every time Touka throws out some tsuntsun attitude, Yumi responds with a big smile and a "that's nice, now let's go hang out!" and gets Touka so flustered she doesn't know how to respond. Lol.

[Droplet]

Originally Posted by Oxtail

Kanako's story was pretty weak in the novels, too, so I didn't expect much. Not one of the stronger episodes because of the source material.

But I absolutely love the Yumi/Touka interactions. Every time Touka throws out some tsuntsun attitude, Yumi responds with a big smile and a "that's nice, now let's go hang out!" and gets Touka so flustered she doesn't know how to respond. Lol.

Yes, 100%. Touka is adorable. Especially because her tsuntsun doesn't seem to bother Yumi. She doesn't know what to do next and so blushes anyway.

[Sinestra]

Fun episode but as i say that i wonder if they tried to touch on too many things here. Between the school festival, Yoko and Sei's visit and the problems with Kanako it seemed this episode was kind of all over the place. But once i watched it again i saw that it was not exactly unorganized. There was just a lot of information thrown at us this time around.

I must admit i could not have fathomed that Kanako's problem were triggered by her father and her best friend too the extreme. Not only did they fall in love but DAMN Kanako's dad knocked up her up now she has a sister. But it has taken so long for things to be spelled out for Kanako i mean it takes 9 months to have a child and they were involved even before then. It felt that Kanako came to a resolution fairly quickly once she heard what had really happen from her friend but then she remarked she knew it all along i guess she was in denial. Kanako is pretty weak as a character so i guess getting her story over and done with early on is all for the best.

Yumi and Touko have the best interactions i enjoy them a little more than hers and Sachiko's from the 1st and 2nd seasons. Iv also noticed that Touko is capable of making her own funny ass faces though not to the extent that Yumi does. Also, it seems that Touko has a nice little nick name Drill hair LMAO i love it. Watching Yumi pull Touko around it was almost like she was her Onee-Sama things sure are going to be interesting.

There you have it folks "Yumi please aknowledge a younger sister". They are really pushing this early one i thought it would take at 3 episodes for us to get to that but nope 2nd ep and right out of the hat. Yumi is going to have it tough from now and Im sure Yoshino will also be required to find a younger sister its about time for her as well her and Yumi and the future of Yamayurika.

Even though certain events felt rushed and weak Yumi and Touko are just a blessing i still had to give this episode 10/10 (YEP im biased and i know it. )

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Oxtail

...But I absolutely love the Yumi/Touka interactions. Every time Touka throws out some tsuntsun attitude, Yumi responds with a big smile and a "that's nice, now let's go hang out!" and gets Touka so flustered she doesn't know how to respond. Lol.

Really. It is so enjoyable to see Yumi do that and just carry Touko along. In previous series, I have almost hated Touko. But not now. Previously she seemed to have a big psychological edge on Yumi. But now we see how much Yumi has developed in "a year."

EDIT: I corrected my couple of instances of "Touka." I think Touka Gettan had a big effect on me, lol. Hayami Saori's tripping "Touka-chan" is still vividly in my mind. But the formerly nasty little drill girl, now enjoyable tsundere, is Touko.

[MercFH]

I really enjoyed it, 8/10. ep 1 was better but this one was still nice.
am I the only one that thinks in the end Yumi will end up with

Spoiler for ZOMG:

Touko chan, AKA "DRILL GIRL" hehehe

also along with the others Im really starting to like Touko-chan. of course I liked her in 3rd season too.

QUESTION:I totally forget......was she in second season at all?

[Proto]

am I the only one that thinks in the end Yumi will end up with

You meant to add one of these(؟) at the end of that? Right? Right؟

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Oxtail

Kanako's story was pretty weak in the novels, too, so I didn't expect much. Not one of the stronger episodes because of the source material.

Ah. Well that explains that.

Originally Posted by Oxtail

But I absolutely love the Yumi/Touka interactions. Every time Touka throws out some tsuntsun attitude, Yumi responds with a big smile and a "that's nice, now let's go hang out!" and gets Touka so flustered she doesn't know how to respond. Lol.

One big reason why this works so well is that Touko's standoffishness doesn't have a chance against Yumi's behavior; and that she's completely drawn into Yumi's pace. That's why I find Touko endearing instead of being overweening - her character archetype is allowed to controls scenes to too great a degree, but Touko can barely seize the initiative against Yumi.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Really. It is so enjoyable to see Yumi do that and just carry Touka along. In previous series, I have almost hated Touka. But not now. Previously she seemed to have a big psychological edge on Yumi. But now we see how much Yumi has developed in "a year."

Most of that edge stemmed from Yumi's sense of vulnerability, and her lack of understanding of Touko's character. While the change partially comes from Yumi's development, it also has a lot to do with simply having a more fleshed-out relationship with Touko.

Originally Posted by MercFH

also along with the others Im really starting to like Touko-chan. of course I liked her in 3rd season too.

QUESTION:I totally forget......was she in second season at all?

Big time. She was the perceived source of Yumi's problems with Sachiko. At the time, Yumi and Touko's relationship is very different from the way it is now, so it's definitely worth rewatching.


By the way, I'd like to remind everyone that her name is Matsudaira Touko; this reference to "Touka" is starting to make me doubt if I'm remembering her name correctly .

[mehmeh1068]

Have to agree about the rushing. Obviously, squishing a whole novel into two episodes means lots of stuff has to be missed out.

I think the Kanako story doesn't fit with the school festival stuff. However, this is the only chance to possibly throw in two new characters and then have them disappear forever, so I guess I'll just accept it. And Kanako's dad is way too irresponsible. Just cause some high school girl says she loves you, doesn't mean you can go off and get her pregnant! Sheesh... and Kanako just forgives her dad? Impossible! But this shows what an inconsistent character Kanako is. Perhaps Kanako only cares about whether Yuuko is happy or not, so seeing her happy and healthy, she doesn't care about it anymore. I was so surprised when she didn't throw the baby on the ground lol.

Is it just me or does Sachiko go sort of out of character in this episode? First she does the Phoenix Wright 'objection!' thing while telling Yumi to hurry to watch Touko's play (that made me laugh even harder than Sei's comment about Touko's hair). Then when she tells Yumi to find a soeur, she looks so cold and hard at Yumi. When I read the novel, I imagined her to be smiling her gentle smile but in the anime she just stares at Yumi like some statue.

Spoiler for Novel info about the guys in suits and sunglasses:

And for the people who didn't read the novel, the two guys dressed weirdly in suits and sunglasses, who walk past after Yuuko bumps into Yumi, are Shimako's dad and Noriko's 'boyfriend' (the boyfriend thing is supposed to be a joke).

The bald guy is Shimako's dad and the other is Noriko's boyfriend. In the novel, Yoshino overreacts and thinks they are assassins. Have to agree that they look rather suspicious.

Hope the next episode won't be such a rush. All the good jokes are getting missed out!

[Blaat]

Kanako's problem and its conclusion was definitely rushed (and slightly disturbing as well) but I absolutely loved the Yumi and Touko moments (Touko's facial expressions are great to watch, although not as varied Yumi's facial expressions of course ) having said that I hope Touko never let her hair down again, she looks so much cuter with the 'electric drill hair'.

[mintyfresh]

Originally Posted by Blaat

I absolutely loved the Yumi and Touko moments (Touko's facial expressions are great to watch, although not as varied Yumi's facial expressions of course )

I was just thinking about that. I don't know if it's just me, but Yumi hasn't seemed to make too many of her 100 faces in a while. Not that I'm not enjoying the way Touko's expression turns everytime Yumi makes her go "Huh..?!". I suppose you can say there's been a bit of a tradeoff..?


In other news, holy crap, I don't think I've posted here since 2006. （ ´_ゝ`）

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Blaat

Kanako's problem and its conclusion was definitely rushed (and slightly disturbing as well) but I absolutely loved the Yumi and Touko moments (Touko's facial expressions are great to watch, although not as varied Yumi's facial expressions of course ) having said that I hope Touko never let her hair down again, she looks so much cuter with the 'electric drill hair'.

TTGL kinda ruined drills for me. I keep expecting Touko to make some hot blooded speech before piercing the heavens with her hair.

It's fortunate I'm not a carpenter.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by mehmeh1068

Have to agree about the rushing. Obviously, squishing a whole novel into two episodes means lots of stuff has to be missed out.

I get the feeling that this was a concious decision on the part of the anime staff. Did we really need to see Kanako's story stretched out over 1-2 full episodes?

Originally Posted by mehmeh1068

Sheesh... and Kanako just forgives her dad? Impossible! But this shows what an inconsistent character Kanako is. Perhaps Kanako only cares about whether Yuuko is happy or not, so seeing her happy and healthy, she doesn't care about it anymore. I was so surprised when she didn't throw the baby on the ground lol.

From the episode, I get the feeling that Kanako is more upset about the fact that the "harm" was to Yuuko, than the fact that her father was involved with a teenager. The emphasis doesn't come across very well, and there really wasn't a better way to communicate it. Heck, there are even a couple of really awkward lines that try to explain that Kanako's problem had nothing to do with her father's actions affecting her mother, and so on.

Originally Posted by mehmeh1068

Then when she tells Yumi to find a soeur, she looks so cold and hard at Yumi. When I read the novel, I imagined her to be smiling her gentle smile but in the anime she just stares at Yumi like some statue.

The scene in the anime works a bit differently than you're describing. Here, Sachiko is quite insistent that Yumi find a soeur, and the direction reflects that appropriately.

Originally Posted by mehmeh1068

Hope the next episode won't be such a rush. All the good jokes are getting missed out!

You shouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly. While the Marimite anime has been following the manga fairly closely, that doesn't mean that it has to follow it in all respects. It's quite possible that certain jokes or reveals have been moved around to different occassions. What you pointed out couldn't have possibly been wedged into this episode, so the creators might be saving it for later. For this reason, sins of omission shouldn't be brought up unless it's certain that the anime version isn't going to be tackling it at some point. You'd be better off pointing sins of commission instead. (And all of this non-anime talk should be inside clearly-labelled spoiler tags if they have to be brought up at all.)

Originally Posted by mintyfresh

I was just thinking about that. I don't know if it's just me, but Yumi hasn't seemed to make too many of her 100 faces in a while. Not that I'm not enjoying the way Touko's expression turns everytime Yumi makes her go "Huh..?!". I suppose you can say there's been a bit of a tradeoff..?

Yumi is now playing a different role than she did in the past, and her reactions have changed accordingly. I highly suspect that they'll start surfacing more in the near future.


And we really don't need hints about upcoming characters and the like. If you want to talk about them, please do so in the Spoilers thread.

[MercFH]

Originally Posted by Proto

You meant to add one of these(؟) at the end of that? Right? Right؟

no? I mean i was being legit? im just not in the maria-sama AS forums alot? so i didn't know if that was talked about much lol

edit: Electric Drill hair is THE BEST!

[Oxtail]

Opps, I apologize for butchering Touko's name and leading others to do the same. Lol.