Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Not completely true either.

Sometimes, a weapon can be improved by simple ways. Take the cannonball for example, get it out of it's round ball shape and into (Crap, I don't have a word for this so bear with me ) something 'pointy' () and it would penerate deeper.

You don't have to put in more material to do it.

Triangle? Cone? Bullet? Arrow-head? spear-head? (I personally prefer spear-head)

But even adjusting the shape seems to cost energy. If I recall, during the first time Nanoha solo-trained Tiana, Tiana needed a cartridge in order to get something resempling a spear-headed bullet instead of the usual round ones.

And that's not even counting the fact that barriers seem to be able to resist even sharp or high powered objects (such as Vita's projectiles, or even rocket hammer). You will always have the 'stronger barrier needs stronge force' effect.

[Deathkillz]

i dont think it really matters as to what shape those magic attacks are cause flying at the speed they are doing its shape is going to be distorted anyway to give an aerodynamic "spear head" ~ why do you suppose vita's metal balls are round and not bullet shaped for more damage?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Triangle? Cone? Bullet? Arrow-head? spear-head? (I personally prefer spear-head)

But even adjusting the shape seems to cost energy. If I recall, during the first time Nanoha solo-trained Tiana, Tiana needed a cartridge in order to get something resempling a spear-headed bullet instead of the usual round ones.

With experience, comes efficiency

When somebody tries to create a 'spear-head' cannonball after years of making them round, the said person would definately find it difficult and tiresome.

But after awhile, the person would have gotten used to the process, and have refine his skills. So much so that what used to be difficult and tiresome, would be...Normal

[An Hero in Disguise]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Well, that's what Teana's AMF-proof projectiles are about, to cover and protect the real projectile so that it'll reach it's intended target(s).

In a sense, it's increasing the amount of magic in it, giving the AMF more work to do.

It's like a race, between the rate of magic the AMF can disrupt and the amount of magic in the spell to 'tolerate' the AMF.

The speed of which the attack is coming at the AMF is also an important factor.

So the AMF kinda gradually dissolves the spell entering it? What's the basis under the inability of using magic inside wide-range AMF then - impossibility to gather necessary initial amount of energy? Can it be overcome by high-ranking mages? Also I'm waiting for more tricks with AMF - can't the flying drones disrupt flight magic at least (I was so hoping for that to happen )?

I believe that the mage could 'adjust' the setting whether to place more focus on physical or magic base damage.

There doesn't seem to be a border or limit to this as "Starlight Breaker" is mostly, if not completely, magic base.

Of course there might just be a minority amount that has been cause explosions and debris...

Adjusting amounts of each type of damage is fine, but if there're no limits to it it'd look strange. I can't imagine Fate's and Chrono's energy blades doing low physical damage on clear hit for example.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

With experience, comes efficiency

When somebody tries to create a 'spear-head' cannonball after years of making them round, the said person would definately find it difficult and tiresome.

But after awhile, the person would have gotten used to the process, and have refine his skills. So much so that what used to be difficult and tiresome, would be...Normal

But we know shape isn't everything, after all, Nanoha easilly stopped Vita's Raketten Hammer after Raising Heart was upgraded.

[Chaos2Frozen]

@The people surrounding me with their shotguns loaded

For the record people, I'm NOT the resident Tech expert

This is what I have learnt from them and what I feel myself

Meaning, I'm not a ***dam, I'm only human

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

i dont think it really matters as to what shape those magic attacks are cause flying at the speed they are doing its shape is going to be distorted anyway to give an aerodynamic "spear head" ~ why do you suppose vita's metal balls are round and not bullet shaped for more damage?

I'm just using it as an example

The point is that spells can change to suit the situation. It's just whether the caster is skilled enough to do so.

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

So the AMF kinda gradually dissolves the spell entering it? What's the basis under the inability of using magic inside wide-range AMF then - impossibility to gather necessary initial amount of energy? Can it be overcome by high-ranking mages? Also I'm waiting for more tricks with AMF - can't the flying drones disrupt flight magic at least (I was so hoping for that to happen )?

The AMF simply just makes magic difficult to be use in it's field.

If the AMF can get close enough and break down the spell fast enough before being destroyed, I believe it is possible to disrupt flight spells.

And yes, AMF can be overcomed by superior fire power.

Adjusting amounts of each type of damage is fine, but there're no limits to it it'd look strange. I can't imagine Fate's and Chrono's energy blades doing low physical damage on clear hit for example.

Like I said, there might just be a minority amount that has been causing explosions and debris...

But if Chrono and Fate wants their blades to deal little to no physical damage, why not?

After all, the blade is just a shape of which their magic takes.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Keroko

But we know shape isn't everything, after all, Nanoha easilly stopped Vita's Raketten Hammer after Raising Heart was upgraded.

IT WAS JUST AN EXAMPLE

The point is, that ... Argh, read what I wrote to Deathkillz...

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

i dont think it really matters as to what shape those magic attacks are cause flying at the speed they are doing its shape is going to be distorted anyway to give an aerodynamic "spear head" ~ why do you suppose vita's metal balls are round and not bullet shaped for more damage?

Aerodynamically, flying at high speed a fluid object would tend to form a tail from the air rushing over it, since the bulk of the mass is at the front, and thus would hold the entire projectile together more than the sides . Like a comet, the front would still be round, higher speed simply means that the object simply thins. But the front end of the object remains round, it will not suddenly shape itself into an spike due to the areodynamic drag.

And Vita's balls are round because of Vita's style: She needs to be able to launch multiple balls at a single swing. Having a bullet-shaped projectile would require her to smack each projectile individually, one at a time, for maximum projectile energy, slowing her down in the process.

And balls are typically the best projectile shape when raw damage is needed, because a ball can pack in more mass than a tapered bullet of the same caliber, and launched at the same speed can deal more damage than a tapered bullet. Balls tend to lose energy in flight though due to their shape, and the drag over its surface significantly reduces range and accuracy.

[Chaos2Frozen]

@ Deathkillz and Keroko

I'm only using shape as an example because it's the easiest one I could think of at the top of my head...

Altering spells are of course not restricted to just that.

[Meophist]

Wouldn't… umm… Nanoha's A.C.S. be an example for something here?

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

@The people surrounding me with their shotguns loaded

"and open fire!!!" XD

yea yea chaos i get what you mean...just felt like nit picking once in a while :3

basically its ~ skill > magic capacity

yet i still believe that there is a limit to how far skills can take you...and it would be proven when the aces do release their limiters that with their current limited powers cant do a hell lot when the big bad boss finally reveals its ugly ass
at times like these pure overwhelming power is the best solution...(ill just be mourning for what ever planet they are fighting on )

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Meophist

Wouldn't… umm… Nanoha's A.C.S. be an example for something here?

Top 10 ways to counter AMF?

Top 10 examples of improvision?

Top 10 methods that action gamers usually used to say 'hello' ?

[Darco_emp]

I just want to know how did we arrive at discussion on Aerodynamics....

with regards to AMF try reading some of the posts in magic and tech of Nanoha, Hero in Disguise, we did have a heated discussions on it a while back

[An Hero in Disguise]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

But if Chrono and Fate wants their blades to deal little to no physical damage, why not?

After all, the blade is just a shape of which their magic takes.

Erm, I hope shape matters a bit at least - I wouldn't like to see things being cut by blunt objects or a person pierced through the chest by an energy blade taking mostly magical damage (well, they can make blades explode on contact instead of piercing so that wouldn't look lame, but the concept of form not going along with effect just isn't appealing to me). The moment I'll hear Graf Eisen doing magical damage with its gigantic hammer form I'll be sure that whoever writes the story has no sense of logic (damn, I can imagine it - *SLAM!* - huge explosion and a crater in the ground with the opponent unconscious in its center - he/she suffered only magical damage at least with beams it looks more or less sane).

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Top 10 ways to counter AMF?

Top 10 examples of improvision?

Top 10 methods that action gamers usually used to say 'hello' ?

An example of using technique over power for getting around defenses? (Particularly shape?)

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

"and open fire!!!" XD

yea yea chaos i get what you mean...just felt like nit picking once in a while :3

basically its ~ skill > magic capacity

yet i still believe that there is a limit to how far skills can take you...and it would be proven when the aces do release their limiters that with their current limited powers cant do a hell lot when the big bad boss finally reveals its ugly ass
at times like these pure overwhelming power is the best solution...(ill just be mourning for what ever planet they are fighting on )

Like I've said...

Only when you really need to reshape the landscape...

Ain't no Mountain high enough~
Ain't no valley low enough~

Originally Posted by Darco_emp

I just want to know how did we arrive at discussion on Aerodynamics....

with regards to AMF try reading some of the posts in magic and tech of Nanoha, Hero in Disguise, we did have a heated discussions on it a while back

IT WAS JUST AN- Oh wait, it's just you...

Well, it all started when I mention that more violence isn't always the best solution... (Buddhist and all... )

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

"and open fire!!!" XD

yea yea chaos i get what you mean...just felt like nit picking once in a while :3

basically its ~ skill > magic capacity

yet i still believe that there is a limit to how far skills can take you...and it would be proven when the aces do release their limiters that with their current limited powers cant do a hell lot when the big bad boss finally reveals its ugly ass
at times like these pure overwhelming power is the best solution...(ill just be mourning for what ever planet they are fighting on )

Actually, having both attributes at their best would be most ideal. And it could always vary by the person. Given this, one would wonder on how broken Chrono must have been during the two earlier seasons if he had Nanoha-level raw magic strength. One could say that he wouldn't be as skillful now, but I doubt Graham and the Lieze twins would have developed him any less. And I also eagerly anticipate the "Limiter release!" scenario.

[Darco_emp]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

"and open fire!!!" XD

yea yea chaos i get what you mean...just felt like nit picking once in a while :3

basically its ~ skill > magic capacity

yet i still believe that there is a limit to how far skills can take you...and it would be proven when the aces do release their limiters that with their current limited powers cant do a hell lot when the big bad boss finally reveals its ugly ass
at times like these pure overwhelming power is the best solution...(ill just be mourning for what ever planet they are fighting on )

Hopefully the spoiler comes true and it does happen in the next few eps, so we see how much more pwnage the Aces have become in the last 10 years.

I'm one of the people who thinks that skill and raw power contributies evenly in Nanoha, since from what we have seen can do in her limited state, she does not seems to be any weaker then that of A's. Just a random thought I wonder if Nanoha can use SLB in her limited state, or does that spell requires a min raw magic output level

[Meophist]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Well, it all started when I mention that more violence isn't always the best solution... (Buddhist and all... )

Don't remember you ever saying that.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Meophist

An example of using technique over power for getting around defenses? (Particularly shape?)

Ah, that would fall under option 2 then

Originally Posted by An Hero in Disguise

Erm, I hope shape matters a bit at least - I wouldn't like to see things being cut by blunt objects or a person pierced through the chest by an energy blade taking mostly magical damage (well, they can make blades explode on contact instead of piercing so that wouldn't look lame, but the concept of form not going along with effect just isn't appealing to me). The moment I'll hear Graf Eisen doing magical damage with its gigantic hammer form I'll be sure that whoever writes the story has no sense of logic (damn, I can imagine it - *SLAM!* - huge explosion and a crater in the ground with the opponent unconscious in its center - he/she suffered only magical damage at least with beams it looks more or less sane).

Think about it.

Why would anyone create an energy sword, a spell that is obvious used for melee combat, that is completely (being the keyword) harmless physically

I said it was possible, I didn't say they were stupid enough

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

Actually, having both attributes at their best would be most ideal. And it could always vary by the person. Given this, one would wonder on how broken Chrono must have been during the two earlier seasons if he had Nanoha-level raw magic strength. One could say that he wouldn't be as skillful now, but I doubt Graham and the Lieze twins would have developed him any less. And I also eagerly anticipate the "Limiter release!" scenario.

People adapt because there's a need to

As my mother now nags at me ,

(This is a direct translation from chinese )

"If the 'mountain' doesn't change, your 'path' must change. If your 'path' doesn't change, you must change..."

[Aaron008R]

Originally Posted by Darco_emp

Hopefully the spoiler comes true and it does happen in the next few eps, so we see how much more pwnage the Aces have become in the last 10 years.

I'm one of the people who thinks that skill and raw power contributies evenly in Nanoha, since from what we have seen can do in her limited state, she does not seems to be any weaker then that of A's. Just a random thought I wonder if Nanoha can use SLB in her limited state, or does that spell requires a min raw magic output level

SLB is mostly recycling magic particles for another shot anyway. But I'm not too sure if her limited capacity could handle the strain.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

People adapt because there's a need to

As my mother now nags at me ,

(This is a direct translation from chinese )

"If the 'mountain' doesn't change, your 'path' must change. If your 'path' doesn't change, you must change..."

Hah. As for me, I always get the ever straight, "Stop lazing off and focus on your priorities!" lecture.

Now I suddenly feel the desire to see Graham in action when he was in his prime.