AnimeSuki Forums

Blueknight78 · 2018-01-04, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by XFire

Did you just tell NASU to learn how to write Fate?

Apocrypha was written by Higashide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruki0089

Ermm, this is not Written by Nasu....

yeah srry, i was typing fast and misswrote wrong name, because i was reading another thing with nasu

HandofFate · 2018-01-08, 11:31

liked it enough.
Gave the first half a 5/10
Second half a 8/10, things really picked up.

Astolfo best waifu.
The bit with Shirou and Semi at the end was whatever. Don't think the pair really deserved a sappy end like that.

So this is just a totally separate timeline sidestory thing right?

blitz1/2 · 2018-01-10, 10:00

Um, do we have a plothole? This war is supposed to replace the 4th Holy Grail war, so that means that Waver shouldn't even have met Zero Rider.

Sheba · 2018-01-10, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Um, do we have a plothole? This war is supposed to replace the 4th Holy Grail war, so that means that Waver shouldn't even have met Zero Rider.

Darnic says in the first ep that he made a mistake: spreading the how to make holy grail wars. Result: all the good catalysts for the best possible Servants are long gone because of all HGW done after the 3rd HGW. The Yggdemillenia summoned Servants that are likely the leftovers, other than Siegfried. Vlad having benefitted from home advantage.

Seeing how the mage association got Karna and Achilles, its possible the association is hoarding ALL remaining good catalysts.

bakato · 2018-01-10, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Um, do we have a plothole? This war is supposed to replace the 4th Holy Grail war, so that means that Waver shouldn't even have met Zero Rider.

Waver still ended participating in a Holy Grail War and meeting Rider.

Dengar · 2018-01-10, 13:24

^ But Waver wasn't even born around the time of the third war.

It might have something to do with the guy Waver serves under. You know who I mean.

GDB · 2018-01-10, 18:50

There are Grail Wars other than Fuyuki's. This is true even in the normal FSN canon. They all utterly fail at their objective because Fuyuki is the only war with the Greater Grail.

bakato · 2018-01-10, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

^ But Waver wasn't even born around the time of the third war.

It might have something to do with the guy Waver serves under. You know who I mean.

Obviously one of the later ones. After stealing the Greater Grail and moving it to his place, Darnic accidentally leaked information on the Grail War. Magi around the world tried making their own fake Grail Wars for one reason or another which obviously didn't work. Regardless, this ended up severely depleting the relics used as catalysts.

At some point, Waver took part in one of these fake wars and ended up meeting Rider, El-Melloi ended up dying and Waver took his place just like FSN. Considering Waver's age, the Greater Grail War likely takes place the same time as FSN.

Dengar · 2018-01-12, 11:33

Wait really there were other grail wars? I didn't know that.

XFire · 2018-01-12, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

Wait really there were other grail wars? I didn't know that.

Apocrypha is one of the settings where the info for the Grail War spread everywhere after the Third War went sideways. But none of them can manage more than five Servants at absolute best, and they basically just create mana reservoirs as opposed to wish granting devices.

Strange Fake does something similar.

Dengar · 2018-01-12, 14:17

To be fair, the Fubuki Holy Grail feels rather limited as a "Wish Granting Device". I mean the Third Magic can do a lot, but not anything and everything. I mean many of the Servants' wishes can be achieved by means such as True Incarnation, and anyone wishing to achieve immortality will probably do right by participating in the ritual, but can it send people back in time to make changes to it? Somehow I doubt it.

I mean it's probably still the most potent in the Fate verse as far as wish granting is concerned, but I don't think it's absolute.

XFire · 2018-01-12, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

To be fair, the Fubuki Holy Grail feels rather limited as a "Wish Granting Device". I mean the Third Magic can do a lot, but not anything and everything. I mean many of the Servants' wishes can be achieved by means such as True Incarnation, and anyone wishing to achieve immortality will probably do right by participating in the ritual, but can it send people back in time to make changes to it? Somehow I doubt it.

I mean it's probably still the most potent in the Fate verse as far as wish granting is concerned, but I don't think it's absolute.

Uh.

Actually, it can.

The Grail's real purpose isn't the Third magic, it's to make a path to the Root. It uses the Third Magic to facilitate that.

Once the path is made you have free reign to do whatever, but the path closes once you've done your thing, so it basically is a wish granter.

Dengar · 2018-01-12, 18:12

I'm sorry, the world's mythos are quite confusing to me. I understand what's going on in the story's present, but some of the background info is sometimes pretty vague (to me).

XFire · 2018-01-12, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

I'm sorry, the world's mythos are quite confusing to me. I understand what's going on in the story's present, but some of the background info is sometimes pretty vague (to me).

Most of it gets revealed in supplemental materials or interviews, so that's pretty normal. Fate has one of the most complex settings around.

Basically there's a multiverse called a Kaleidoscope, where every facet of it is the same universe in slightly different settings. Which narratively means Nasu and guest writers can rewrite the path as much as they want without affecting the canonicity of either the old or new work, which opens a lot of room for them to mess around.

AC-Phoenix · 2018-01-22, 18:03

So 3 things I didn't get....

- Where did Sieg take the grail to? - The Throne of Heroes?
(Would be kinda logical because its a place where immortality isn't needed)

Which begs the next question... If he took it to the throne of heroes... was the Jeanne we saw at the end the actual Heroic Spirit core or just the Copy that somehow wandered to wherever Sieg was?

-) This was supposed to play out in an alternate universe, and yet the story kinda implies that Waver's Fuyuki Grail war still happened.

shmaster · 2018-01-22, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

So 3 things I didn't get....

- Where did Sieg take the grail to? - The Throne of Heroes?
(Would be kinda logical because its a place where immortality isn't needed)

Which begs the next question... If he took it to the throne of heroes... was the Jeanne we saw at the end the actual Heroic Spirit core or just the Copy that somehow wandered to wherever Sieg was?

-) This was supposed to play out in an alternate universe, and yet the story kinda implies that Waver's Fuyuki Grail war still happened.

1. Sieg went to the back side of the world
2. Read above discussion. That's the actual Jeanne fron the Throne of Heroes.
3. There are many TM timelines. Some timelines shares similar historical events because they apply to the same Quantum Time Locks.

AC-Phoenix · 2018-01-22, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by shmaster

1. Sieg went to the back side of the world
2. Read above discussion. That's the actual Jeanne fron the Throne of Heroes.
3. There are many TM timelines. Some timelines shares similar historical events because they apply to the same Quantum Time Locks.

ad2)
Shouldn't she have forgotten everything that occurred during the grail war then, in order to not corrupt the core. i.e. the actual Throne of Heroes Jeanne?
Otherwise she wouldn't be summon-able anymore.

shmaster · 2018-01-22, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

ad2)
Shouldn't she have forgotten everything that occurred during the grail war then, in order to not corrupt the core. i.e. the actual Throne of Heroes Jeanne?
Otherwise she wouldn't be summon-able anymore.

Jeanne left the Throne of Hero already.

After she reads the data from the AP war, she's determined to leave the Throne and go re-unite with Sieg in the Back Side of the World.
At the point where she met Sieg again at the end of AP, she is no longer on the Throne anymore.

AC-Phoenix · 2018-01-22, 18:30

^
i.e. She can never be summoned as a servant again and succeeded where EMIYA failed lol.

Unless there is a different Throne for each reality that is. (Would kinda make sense) But then again time is relative to a heroic spirit.

shmaster · 2018-01-22, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

^
i.e. She can never be summoned as a servant again and succeeded where EMIYA failed lol.

Unless there is a different Throne for each reality that is. (Would kinda make sense) But then again time is relative to a heroic spirit.

Well, the Throne of Hero transcends time.
So even if Jeanne left, the throne still can responds to the summon by pulling out her data from the time frame when she is still there.

View Poll Results: Fate/Apocrypha - Episode 25 [FINALE] Rating
Perfect 10	3	20.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	7	46.67%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	2	13.33%
7 out of 10 : Good	1	6.67%
6 out of 10 : Average	2	13.33%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

2018-01-08, 11:31	Link #22
HandofFate Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006	liked it enough. Gave the first half a 5/10 Second half a 8/10, things really picked up. Astolfo best waifu. The bit with Shirou and Semi at the end was whatever. Don't think the pair really deserved a sappy end like that. So this is just a totally separate timeline sidestory thing right? __________________ ...

2018-01-10, 10:00	Link #23
blitz1/2 Tenshi's Defense Squadron Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system	Um, do we have a plothole? This war is supposed to replace the 4th Holy Grail war, so that means that Waver shouldn't even have met Zero Rider. __________________ hai, hai. Onii-chan has his work cut out for him.

2018-01-22, 18:03	Link #35
AC-Phoenix Detective Join Date: Aug 2010 Age: 36	So 3 things I didn't get.... - Where did Sieg take the grail to? - The Throne of Heroes? (Would be kinda logical because its a place where immortality isn't needed) Which begs the next question... If he took it to the throne of heroes... was the Jeanne we saw at the end the actual Heroic Spirit core or just the Copy that somehow wandered to wherever Sieg was? -) This was supposed to play out in an alternate universe, and yet the story kinda implies that Waver's Fuyuki Grail war still happened. __________________ Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.

2018-01-22, 18:30	Link #39
AC-Phoenix Detective Join Date: Aug 2010 Age: 36	^ i.e. She can never be summoned as a servant again and succeeded where EMIYA failed lol. Unless there is a different Throne for each reality that is. (Would kinda make sense) But then again time is relative to a heroic spirit. __________________ Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.

2018-01-10, 13:24	Link #26
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	^ But Waver wasn't even born around the time of the third war. It might have something to do with the guy Waver serves under. You know who I mean.

2018-01-10, 18:50	Link #27
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	There are Grail Wars other than Fuyuki's. This is true even in the normal FSN canon. They all utterly fail at their objective because Fuyuki is the only war with the Greater Grail.

2018-01-12, 11:33	Link #29
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Wait really there were other grail wars? I didn't know that.

2018-01-12, 14:17	Link #31
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	To be fair, the Fubuki Holy Grail feels rather limited as a "Wish Granting Device". I mean the Third Magic can do a lot, but not anything and everything. I mean many of the Servants' wishes can be achieved by means such as True Incarnation, and anyone wishing to achieve immortality will probably do right by participating in the ritual, but can it send people back in time to make changes to it? Somehow I doubt it. I mean it's probably still the most potent in the Fate verse as far as wish granting is concerned, but I don't think it's absolute.

2018-01-12, 18:12	Link #33
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	I'm sorry, the world's mythos are quite confusing to me. I understand what's going on in the story's present, but some of the background info is sometimes pretty vague (to me).