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Old 2016-11-20, 09:54   Link #6961
Fantasy-dream
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No raw chapter again !!
The arthour is try kill the WN reader !!!
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Old 2016-11-20, 11:19   Link #6962
kari-no-sugata II
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Well, on the plus side it means I get to have a nice relaxing weekend for once (translating can be quite tiring...). Just imagine if you were LN only reader - have to wait 4-5 months between releases. Saying that though, I have started working a bit on the "autumn-leaf viewing" special that's set before the series starts. Kinda slow going though (it's pretty boring, mostly).
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Old 2016-11-20, 16:45   Link #6963
kari-no-sugata II
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Random thought 1: Does Shiro have permission to take the reincarnators back to Earth? Does she need to? She could just dump them there but D could also block her if she tries to do that (and still intends to run). Shiro might have already discussed this with D and thought she got permission but that might have been with the unstated assumption that Shiro agrees to be D's kin.

Random thought 2: If they do go back would, would their memories need to be wiped? (Assuming they don't need to reincarnate again). What does that mean for Oka-chan sensei? She's still an elf after all. The others are at least human so in theory they could fit in with some effort... but Oka-chan seems to be in the worst spot pretty much whatever happens - if she stays on the current planet she'll be pretty much the only elf left alive. Going back to Earth as an elf would be a huge problem. Has Shiro even thought about that? Of course, this would be a moot point if she dies but for now it's still a potential problem to resolve.

Random thought 3: Would any of the other students decide to stay? Seems unlikely currently. Maybe that adventurer duo...?
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Old 2016-11-20, 18:09   Link #6964
K2Grey
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I wonder what Shiro wants to do that she expects will bring down D's wrath. As far as I know, all D wants to see is for the story to play out to its end.

Then again, Shiro has made various references to D being malicious, after apotheosis she understood D's personality was the worst, etc. Even though the System is repairing the world, it does so at the cost of its inhabitants, by locking them out of the normal cycle of reincarnation and slowly wearing down their souls. Given the legend of the Goddess and the Evil God, I suspect that the System originally also fostered constant conflict and war, and Sariel sacrificed herself in order to block this function. Maybe D has some emotional investment in all this that we don't know about.
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Old 2016-11-20, 20:23   Link #6965
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I think instead of being afraid of D's wrath, I think Shiro just wants to avoid work. If she becomes D's kin, she's pretty sure she'll be forced to do more work.
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Old 2016-11-20, 20:38   Link #6966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II View Post
Random thought 1: Does Shiro have permission to take the reincarnators back to Earth? Does she need to? She could just dump them there but D could also block her if she tries to do that (and still intends to run). Shiro might have already discussed this with D and thought she got permission but that might have been with the unstated assumption that Shiro agrees to be D's kin.

Random thought 2: If they do go back would, would their memories need to be wiped? (Assuming they don't need to reincarnate again). What does that mean for Oka-chan sensei? She's still an elf after all. The others are at least human so in theory they could fit in with some effort... but Oka-chan seems to be in the worst spot pretty much whatever happens - if she stays on the current planet she'll be pretty much the only elf left alive. Going back to Earth as an elf would be a huge problem. Has Shiro even thought about that? Of course, this would be a moot point if she dies but for now it's still a potential problem to resolve.

Random thought 3: Would any of the other students decide to stay? Seems unlikely currently. Maybe that adventurer duo...?
hide a tree in a forest.

start a elf cafe if currently there is none in Akihba.
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Old 2016-11-21, 03:28   Link #6967
Breimn
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
hide a tree in a forest.

start a elf cafe if currently there is none in Akihba.
Nah, start a spider cafe lol .
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Old 2016-11-21, 04:24   Link #6968
kari-no-sugata II
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K2Grey View Post
I wonder what Shiro wants to do that she expects will bring down D's wrath. As far as I know, all D wants to see is for the story to play out to its end.
D asked Shiro to help Ariel. Since Ariel was planning to end the System already then there doesn't seem to be any indication (so far) that D wants to keep the System around forever. Where D is likely to get angry is if Shiro tries to run away, since Shiro is a candidate for being D's kin - it would be like spurning her offer. It's not that Shiro plan to run away because she expects to bring down D's wrath but she wants to run away so that she can be free.


Quote:
Then again, Shiro has made various references to D being malicious, after apotheosis she understood D's personality was the worst, etc. Even though the System is repairing the world, it does so at the cost of its inhabitants, by locking them out of the normal cycle of reincarnation and slowly wearing down their souls. Given the legend of the Goddess and the Evil God, I suspect that the System originally also fostered constant conflict and war, and Sariel sacrificed herself in order to block this function. Maybe D has some emotional investment in all this that we don't know about.
I don't think there's been any real change in the System since it was set up. Sariel had to sacrifice herself to allow the System to operate at all. The System has to encourage fighting because that's what enables the souls to grow. It seems pretty likely that D could have made a "nicer" System though, but didn't because of her malicious personality. ie Kuro/Sariel came begging and D offered to help... but on her terms and Kuro/Sariel didn't have any other option.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
I think instead of being afraid of D's wrath, I think Shiro just wants to avoid work. If she becomes D's kin, she's pretty sure she'll be forced to do more work.
What she's really adverse to is being forced to do things. This is why I've previously suggested that if D made an offer like "I'll leave you alone for 1000 years if you take care of the planet" then Shiro would probably find that appealing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
hide a tree in a forest.

start a elf cafe if currently there is none in Akihba.
Heh, legal loli elf cafe (She probably looks like an elementary school student)
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Old 2016-11-21, 05:31   Link #6969
Okashira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II View Post
D asked Shiro to help Ariel. Since Ariel was planning to end the System already then there doesn't seem to be any indication (so far) that D wants to keep the System around forever. Where D is likely to get angry is if Shiro tries to run away, since Shiro is a candidate for being D's kin - it would be like spurning her offer. It's not that Shiro plan to run away because she expects to bring down D's wrath but she wants to run away so that she can be free.
Wasn't Ariel goal only to charge up the system and fix things like that? And that's why Kuro told her that her method of solving things won't achieve anything? I also remember her being as surprised as Kuro when Shiro told her that the best was to shatter the system.

(My memory might be izzy, though)
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Old 2016-11-21, 06:01   Link #6970
kari-no-sugata II
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Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
Wasn't Ariel goal only to charge up the system and fix things like that? And that's why Kuro told her that her method of solving things won't achieve anything? I also remember her being as surprised as Kuro when Shiro told her that the best was to shatter the system.

(My memory might be izzy, though)
Hmm. Right. I don't think Ariel ever thought about ending the System until Shiro suggested it. What Ariel wanted to do was to somehow save the Goddess, even if that meant going against the Goddess's will and killing lots of people.

Maybe I should have phrased my original statement more like: Ariel wanted to save the Goddess and D told Shiro to help Ariel. Because the Goddess was going to die sooner or later if the System was left alone that meant that the only real solution would be to destroy the System. So D telling Shiro to help Ariel could be interpreted as D giving Shiro permission to destroy the System.


PS There was some discussion about a week ago on whether Shiro would be interested in Oka-chan sensei's view of the world (from S21 The world's truth). I thought Shiro wouldn't be that interested but I recall that Shiro was quite surprised on Oka-chan's attitude towards skills etc, back when she used her Ruler skill and Presentation on Natsume/Yuugo.
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Old 2016-11-21, 09:38   Link #6971
kari-no-sugata II
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Analysing D is hard but it's interesting to try.

Shiro has tended to describe her as more having a "bad personality" etc rather than being "bad" by itself. Despite that, Shiro still went to Earth a few times to "play" with D (something that D never discouraged as far as I could tell).

Overall, D seems quite restrained and passive. For the most part, when she does do something she seems to prefer to set up some "interesting" situation when there is an appropriate opportunity and see how it plays out. She doesn't seem to be the type (so far) who would deliberately try to engineer "appropriate opportunities" in the first place. For example, if it turned out that she secretly did things behind the scenes in this planet that led to the crisis all those years ago, then that would change my impression of her a lot - in my mind it would make her "evil".

As far as I can tell, in her guise as "Wakaba Hiiro" she almost never did anything. Maybe she was deliberately laying low as much as possible but it feels more like that there wasn't anything interesting enough to be worth her time. Given that she did do things like send her smartphone to the other world, it's not like she couldn't do anything at all without it being spotted by the maid(s).

She does have a reputation for being harsh on anyone who messes with her "kin" but I suspect that's more like it's because it gives her an excuse (and some motivation) to do something - ie it's not because she cares deeply about about her kin but because it's also a chance for some fun. So messing with D's kin is more like "triggering a flag" than "earning her wrath". This is just a guess though based from what else we've seen. It could also be a combination of things too.

D doesn't seem to enjoy work but when she does find something to motivate her then she can go to quite extreme lengths. The way Shiro describes things, the System is much more complicated/comprehensive than it needs to be - ie D over-engineered it. It seems this was simply because she was having fun with it.

When D was attacked by the Dimension Magic (from the Hero and Demon King, engineered by Potimas) she could have simply turned Potimas into messy fireworks. But she didn't. Instead, she went to some non trivial efforts to give the reincarnators custom cheats etc. So maybe she's trying to get her revenge on Potimas indirectly and have some fun while at it - I guess simply nuking Potimas wouldn't have been that satisfying (too easy).

It's (currently) difficult to be sure of what exactly D expected or hoped for by creating "Kumoko" (Shiro). Shiro herself feels that the meaning of her existence is really low. I guess from D's POV she wins either way - if Kumoko had died early, that would have (somehow) fooled the maid(s) while if Kumoko survives then it's interesting. We did see D give Kumoko a reward with Wisdom etc, but that was after quite some time and by that time Kumoko was quite well established (no longer at imminent risk of death). While D describes it as a reward, she did later compliment Kumoko for making good use of it - so while it was a reward, it's also the case that D wanted to make the situation even more interesting. ie it's a reward that would likely indirectly benefit D too, with further entertainment.

That being said, I don't think D's only motivation is "entertainment value". She doesn't like being dissed and does seem to have a concept of "balance" (good deeds get rewarded, bad deeds get punished). Also, given her desire to avoid work it's also entirely possible that she's hoping that Shiro can take over her job or something (or at least, the parts of her job that she doesn't enjoy).

All in all, it makes it hard to predict how D would react to certain hypothetical scenarios. However, I do feel that it's quite likely that if Shiro runs away and becomes "boring" then D would be inclined to punish Shiro.
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Old 2016-11-21, 10:05   Link #6972
kari-no-sugata II
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Well, no new WN chapter but we do have a new manga chapter...

"The defensive battle of 100 meters above ground" (possibly my favourite battle in the whole series) in full flow. Next chapter in a week too. nice.
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Old 2016-11-21, 10:20   Link #6973
Breimn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II View Post
Well, no new WN chapter but we do have a new manga chapter...

"The defensive battle of 100 meters above ground" (possibly my favourite battle in the whole series) in full flow. Next chapter in a week too. nice.
The manga artist is really good. I am really loving these battles.
BTW Kumoko third place in novel ranking,right behind overlord and monogatari and over mushoku tensei.Full ranking by Kono Light Novel ga Sugoi! 2017 here.
Quote:
Light Novel BEST 10:
1. Ryuuou no Oshigoto!
2. Re:Zero
3. Toaru Majutsu no Index Series
4. Sword Art Online
5. Goblin Slayer
6. Melody Lyrik Idol Magik
7. Gamers!
8. Yowakyara Tomozaki-kun
9. Konosuba
10. Kono Koi to, Sono Mirai

Novel BEST 10:
1. Overlord
2. Monogatari Series
3. Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka?
4. Mushoku Tensei
5. Honzuki no Gekokujou
6. Ninja Slayer
7. Kyuuketsuki ni Natta Kimi wa Eien no Ai wo Hajimeru
8. Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken
9. Boukyuku Tantei Series
10. Kono Sekai ga Game dato Ore dake ga Shitte Iru

Male Character BEST 10:
1. Kamijou Touma (Toaru Majutsu no Index Series)
2. Kirito (Sword Art Online)
3. Accelerator (Toaru Majutsu no Index Series)
4. Natsuki Subaru (Re:Zero)
4. Hikigaya Hachiman ( Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatteiru)
6. Kenji Fujikido (Ninja Slayer)
7. Shiba Tatsuya ( Mahouka Koukou No Rettousei)
8. Kazuma ( Konosuba)
9. Sora ( No Game No Life)
10. Kyousuke Shiroyama (Mitou Shoukan://Blood Sign)

Female Character BEST 10
1. Misaka Mikoto (Toaru Majutsu no Index Series)
2. Rem (Re:Zero)
3. Megumin (Konosuba)
4. Asuna ( Sword Art Online)
4. Yukinoshita Yukino (Oregairu)
6. Kato Megumi ( Saenai Heroine no Sodatekata - Saekano)
7. Shiroki Joou (Mitou Shoukan://Blood Sign)
8. Emilia (Re:Zero)
9. Index (Toaru Majutsu no Index Series)
10. Othinus (Toaru Majutsu no Index Series)

Illustrator BEST 10:
1. Haimura Kiyotaka (Toaru Majutsu no Index Series)
2. abec ( Sword Art Online)
3. Kantoku (Henneko)
4. Mishima Kurone (Konosuba)
5. Warainaku (Ninja Slayer)
6. Ponkan8 (Oregairu)
7. Misaki Kurehito ( Saenai Heroine no Sodatekata - Saekano)
8. Hisashi ( Netoge no Yome wa Onna no Ko Janai to Omotta?)
9. Otsuka Shinichiro (Re:Zero)
10. Saki Ukai ( Black Bullet)
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Old 2016-11-21, 10:39   Link #6974
gn_X00
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somehow...

did D gave Shiro "Wisdom" just because D wanted to see Mahou Shoujo Magical Kumoko☆ faster?
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Old 2016-11-21, 10:46   Link #6975
kari-no-sugata II
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Originally Posted by gn_X00 View Post
somehow...

did D gave Shiro "Wisdom" just because D wanted to see Mahou Shoujo Magical Kumoko☆ faster?
Wouldn't you in her shoes?

Well, the idea of "Wisdom" itself seems to be what Kumoko requested (*), but the details were obviously set by D.

On a side note, it did seem like Kumoko's "wish" was "heard" by the System. Maybe D had written in the concept of a "prayer" (as in pray to god for a wish/miracle) and that sort of got triggered? I wonder if we'll see such a thing again...


(*) From chapter 100 before Wisdom skill turns up:
Quote:
But, there's no evolution or derivation.
No, it's fine.
It's a great thing even if only Appraisal-sama reached max level.
Though I expected something like an evolution to a person who rules wisdom.
There's nothing.
I thought that there is if it's Appraisal-sama, but there's nothing.
It's a shock.
... Really nothing?
(And yes, it's the same word in the raw too)
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Old 2016-11-21, 11:16   Link #6976
erneiz_hyde
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Huh, new manga chapter? It went from bi-weekly to weekly releases now?
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Old 2016-11-21, 14:58   Link #6977
Rasty
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^^ I think that was just D peeking on our cute little spider not any kind of prayer system, you can't forget D could still read Kumoka's mind by this point.

D seems to be the typical god in japanese novel. She doesen't act herself exactly because she is close to omnipotent. She could just easily solve every problem of that world and smash all the bad guys in under one second, but where is the fun in that? It's something like watching a movie or reading a book for her, so while she might be cheering for some side, she won't really interfere too much.
Btw. I am almost sure the maid would not care in the least even if D decided to nuke the whole fantasy world.

As for punishing Shiro, I would more guess her to get happy about Shiro running away. How else could she enjoy such a nice onigokko? More probable scenario is D making some restrictions on what she can do (to not win too easily), set some punishment game if she catches Shiro and than going to play with her, happy smile plastered all over her face.
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Old 2016-11-21, 20:03   Link #6978
kari-no-sugata II
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Originally Posted by Rasty View Post
^^ I think that was just D peeking on our cute little spider not any kind of prayer system, you can't forget D could still read Kumoka's mind by this point.
I'm referring to this bit from chapter 100:
Quote:
《Za,...... Zaa,...Za, Zaa, Zaa,......》

... What's this sound that's similar to the television's sandstorm?

《Zaa, Request, Zaa, ... lack of High Rank Administrator authority. Zaa, .......》

Eh? What?

《Zaa, ... nager sari.........Zaa, ... Rejection, Zaa》
It basically looks like "Kumoko" was somehow able to trigger a request within the System it seems. It was rejected at the first step, then it went to Sariel and got rejected again. Then finally got to D. Feels like something going up a priority chain.

Maybe she did that with Ruler authority? Or maybe it was something within the System that anyone could access in theory?


Quote:
D seems to be the typical god in japanese novel. She doesen't act herself exactly because she is close to omnipotent. She could just easily solve every problem of that world and smash all the bad guys in under one second, but where is the fun in that? It's something like watching a movie or reading a book for her, so while she might be cheering for some side, she won't really interfere too much.
"Kumoko" did a particularly good impression of a Shinto "land god" when she camped outside Sophia's town

However, for D, she seems to have permanent duties as well. I wonder if those duties just relate to Earth or if it's more at the level of the whole universe (eg her management of Darkness and Death attributes).


Quote:
Btw. I am almost sure the maid would not care in the least even if D decided to nuke the whole fantasy world.
Depends if it requires extra paperwork or not perhaps


Quote:
As for punishing Shiro, I would more guess her to get happy about Shiro running away. How else could she enjoy such a nice onigokko? More probable scenario is D making some restrictions on what she can do (to not win too easily), set some punishment game if she catches Shiro and than going to play with her, happy smile plastered all over her face.
For something simple like that, I imagine she would pit her maid against Shiro, rather than do it herself.

On a slight side note, I wonder if D predicted that Shiro would become a bit attached to Ariel if they spent some time together and that's why D told Shiro to help Ariel. Or whether that was unrelated.
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Old 2016-11-21, 20:22   Link #6979
Okashira
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Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II View Post
Well, the idea of "Wisdom" itself seems to be what Kumoko requested (*), but the details were obviously set by D.

On a side note, it did seem like Kumoko's "wish" was "heard" by the System. Maybe D had written in the concept of a "prayer" (as in pray to god for a wish/miracle) and that sort of got triggered? I wonder if we'll see such a thing again...


(*) From chapter 100 before Wisdom skill turns up:
I always figured that Kumoko indirectly requested it with her ruler authorities, or conversely D was using those to monitor her 24/7.

Also, wisdom is waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy more than that. Throughout the series Kumoko has a bunch of complains about stuff, like not having a map, or not having a system encyclopedia / dictionary, not being able to see evolutionary trees and a lot more that I don't even half-remember (I think she even complained about not having player markers, maybe after bumping into the Earth Dragon?); basically absolutely every design complain that Kumoko had about her death game like situation was answered via the skill wisdom, this is something that a reader doesn't get unless one re-trails the series with the idea of identifying stuff that will pop up later (like this one).

Sadly is not like most of Kumoko's complains are major landmarks, so backtracking them is kind of a pain......


BTW, I love it how the monkeys have this horror movie feel to them, a good hint of what's to come.
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Old 2016-11-21, 21:12   Link #6980
Asuka'
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All these multi POV is killing me. More than 50 chapters just for conference and the story only advance 'till a bit more than S20.

WTF with vampgal and chuunioni and bakaimouto and poor-secretary-ex-noble-san etc pov, I want the continuation of the aho hero story (which move according to kumoko plan)!
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