Macross Delta the Movie - Passionate Walkūre - Discussion Thread

[Tak]

Its bombing completely unjustified as its open Pandora box and create cycle of revenge.

The NUNs may not be portrayed as the totally good guys in Delta, but humanity in general have a much better idea than Windermere in regards to Protocultural artifacts and what they can do if fallen to the wrong hands. The bombing opened nothing, and your examples hardly stands, since the weapon already exists and its over there.

And look son, if the NUNs wanted to wipe out Windermere, they wouldn't just provide a tactical MDE. They would have provided a full-blown DE.

- Tak

[charles883]

Yeah, but they plan to massacre entire civilian on the capital along with it and COVER IT UP just like Titan in Zeta Gundam. Also they use illegal weapon, that they themselves banned, makes those branch of NUNS complete hypocrite. Also those ruin are complete disrepair and Windermere has zero intention turn it into weapon until of course bombing. Even Hayate father, special agent also THINKS his boss went too far.

Also DE bomb fallout cause damage to planet dimensional space cause it to be more difficult to travel to space. Its only Windermere have to use ruin to enable them back to use FTL back.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by charles883

Its bombing completely unjustified as its open Pandora box and create cycle of revenge.

Why is it unjustified? Only a violent primitive medieval society think makes sense to export poisoned food intentionally, and then to follow up with mass mind control. And we see that their justice system is basically non-existent. Further the manga showed that the Windermerians don't understand the concept of a mutual defence pact, or for that matter what justice even is.

NUNs didn't make Windermerians evil. Windermerians are already evil.

Yeah, but they plan to massacre entire civilian on the capital

Now you just made it up. The entire plan was to destroy the ruins, the only reason any civilians died was because the MC's father disobeyed orders and got off course.

[Convoy]

If reports on ancillary media are to be believed, the "Wind Kingdom" only holds power over the planet because upon first contact, the UNG/NUNG helped them unify the planet.

[ReddyRedWolf]

The Independence War started because Windermere's leadership chose poorly how to manage their economy. Unlike Voldor and Ragna Windermere doesn't have any industrial capacity due their conservative and xenophobic natures.

They thought Fold Quartz would make them an economic and military super power like what Leon Mishima attempted to do invading the Vajra homeworld. Except Gallia 4 and Macross Galaxy happened restricting the harvesting and trade of Fold Quartz.

Gramia starting the war was essentially a temper tantrum of not getting his way. His ambition of conquering the galaxy without care for the consequences for his people in the long run just shows his immaturity.

The ending of Macross Delta doesn't mean the war ended peacefully. Indeed the rest of the cluster will arm themselves to get back at Windermere. Without Epsilon Foundation Windermere wont have the means to build VFs and ships.

This is the difference of Macross Delta to previous shows as either the antagonist race integrated or leave far away that conflict wont happen.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Convoy

If reports on ancillary media are to be believed, the "Wind Kingdom" only holds power over the planet because upon first contact, the UNG/NUNG helped them unify the planet.

Windermere basically was a society that wasn't ready to be uplifted. A society that basically haven't developed human rights, still based the economy on serfdom, and politically haven't gone past army diplomacy. They still live in the mindset that war is glorious.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Windermere basically was a society that wasn't ready to be uplifted. A society that basically haven't developed human rights, still based the economy on serfdom, and politically haven't gone past army diplomacy. They still live in the mindset that war is glorious.

Not to mention the Wind Kingdom got extremely lucky because that particular kingdom made first contact. Hell, Windermere might not have been called Windermere at all, it could have very well been called something else had humanity contacted other regional powers.

- Tak

[charles883]

Hello do you even saw ep 25 properly, The ruin IS Under capital those massacring entire civilian just because they were right on top the ruin. Hayate father forced to drop bomb too early as bomb is already remotely armed.

Also You cannot generalize entire race just because of action of few leadership. It means you painted Frejya, her supposed fiancée who willing to risk his life and reputation to smuggle out Frejya to allow her dreams become singer come true and honorable Aerial Knight like Keith, Helman and Qasim as evil person. Even Bogue motivation although narrow minded as he is, understandable as bomb kill his entire family.

Is it so wrong to win a war WITHOUT resorting Illegal WMD weapon.

Sorry to reopen can of worms again.
Let get back to discussion on movie. I prefer Delta movie to be sequal although its unlikely given track record of Macross movie. I hope part 2 of the story completely different especially final battle as I prefer it take place in Windermere. Which means Hayate going to pilot New VF like how Alto pilot YF-29 in Frontier movie 2.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by charles883

Also You cannot generalize entire race just because of action of few leadership. It means you painted Frejya, her supposed fiancée who willing to risk his life and reputation to smuggle out Frejya to allow her dreams become singer come true and honorable Aerial Knight like Keith, Helman and Qasim as evil person.

Yes, because the farmers grew and sold poisoned apples to foreigners deliberately. They were not innocent, they were part of the war effort to enslave other races.

[charles883]

It was Roid idea. Those farmer has zero clue what inside apple. Even Aerial Knight especially Qasim found it despicable and unethical as he farmer himself. I bet he also wanted to defect to Delta squadron, after he started to realize Roid started to go too far,but due to he having 3 year old son and family on home, he unable to.

[Convoy]

Originally Posted by charles883

Hello do you even saw ep 25 properly, The ruin IS Under capital those massacring entire civilian just because they were right on top the ruin. Hayate father forced to drop bomb too early as bomb is already remotely armed.

Also You cannot generalize entire race just because of action of few leadership. It means you painted Frejya, her supposed fiancée who willing to risk his life and reputation to smuggle out Frejya to allow her dreams become singer come true and honorable Aerial Knight like Keith, Helman and Qasim as evil person. Even Bogue motivation although narrow minded as he is, understandable as bomb kill his entire family.

No, the Sigur Barrentz was under Darwent. For some reason, Wright's dimension eater wound up landing on Karlisle. So the Sigur Barrentz survived to be mobilized seven years later.

What are you talking about? What fiancé helped Freyja get offworld? She did that by herself.

Honorable Knights? They intentionally and repeatedly opened fire on civilian-populated areas, and then had the gall to stand by while Mirage, Hayate, and Freyja, the enemies who they repeatedly tried to kill, were put in a kangaroo court that declared them to not be soldiers in war. Honorable my ass.

And since I'm at it, I'll invoke Godwin's law. You think Germans not in positions of power in the Nazi era were innocent if they chose to be ignorant sheep while their ruling regime was doing all kinds of crimes just barely beneath the surface? Plenty of dissidents knew. And they escaped abroad or got executed for their troubles. Windermerean farmers damn well knew something was going on with their products in enemy territory.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Convoy

What are you talking about? What fiancé helped Freyja get offworld? She did that by herself.

She was actually betrothed to the mayor's son of her village. Though for the most part, he is rather irrelevant.

- Tak

[charles883]

In the manga or light novel , he help Frejya escape.

Windermerean farmers damn well knew something was going on with their products in enemy territory

Then can you explain how Frejya was not aware on apple alteration. And once she found out, she even call out Aerial Knight for using apple bioweapon. This shows that civilian was not aware on their apple alteration. You're just generalizing race.

By the way here my wish list on delta movie whether or not its sequal or retelling

- Better dogfight.
- Messer live.( Although unlikely)
- Hayate got his new upgrade VF which most likely YF just like how Alto got his YF-29.
- More in-depth on conspirator that order Hayate father bombing on capital and more depth on Windermere just like how Vajra revelation more flesh out and Galaxy conspirator in Frontier movie 2.
- Keith got his Draken 3 full weapon pack like VF-27 super pack.
- Final battle take place in Windermere.
- Secret villain who using both Windermere and NUNS for his own benefit.
- Fire bomber appearance?

By the way knowing Macross style ending, NUNS genocide on Windermere will NOT HAPPEN.

[Dash_Hunter]

This came out of left field after the announcement of the new series, but hey, this is an opportunity to make Delta better and I hope Messer can get the Mikhail treatment in it.

So do you guys think the movie will be released before the new series or after? if the series is still planned to air in 2018 maybe the movie could come out in the first half of the year and the series in fall.

Also, could it be that the new series will probably be more related to Delta than we think? maybe they are making the movie because the series is going to follow whatever changes they may make to the Delta story in the movie.
Maybe I'm overthinking things but I think it's weird that they would announce a movie to an already finished series after announcin a completely new series for next year, normally it would be the other way around, I guess time will tell.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by charles883

Its only Windermere have to use ruin to enable them back to use FTL back.

How do you get back something that wasn't yours to begin with?

Originally Posted by charles883

You're just generalizing race.

One can easily accuse the Windyboys of the same act, unless for you, thats ok.

Although Delta squadron attempted to send overtures on a number of occasions. They were ignored, over and over.

Originally Posted by charles883

By the way knowing Macross style ending, NUNS genocide on Windermere will NOT HAPPEN.

Although not exactly a fan of mass destruction and all, for the Windyboys, I will make an exception. They were horribly written BS villains with next to no redeeming qualities. Ugh...

And you seriously need to get your head out of the whole NUNs vs Windyboys sand. Its not just the NUNs vs Windyboys anymore, its the Windyboys vs NUNs and the entire sector, who may just be too happy whacking the Windyboys with or without NUNs involvement. Without the ruins, the Windy joint is nothing. A primitive society waiting to be slaughtered after it had caused serious discomfort for all parties involved.

- Tak

[Convoy]

Yeah, why not? Alto killed Grace in the Frontier TV series. A liberated Brera took out the Galaxy command staff in Sayonara no Tsubasa. Someone needs to die for their crimes.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Tak

One can easily accuse the Windyboys of the same act, unless for you, thats ok.

Although Delta squadron attempted to send overtures on a number of occasions. They were ignored, over and over.

I don't really think that some of fictional antagonists being unsurprisingly wrong, somehow make alright generalising whole their race, though. Especially if their own bias was somehow understandable.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I don't really think that some of fictional antagonists being unsurprisingly wrong, somehow make alright generalising whole their race, though.

I was basically accusing Wind of the same crime. Sure, humanity should not generalize the Windyfolks, but thats exactly what the Windyfolks had been doing to humanity, or rather, the entire NUN.

Never mind that the NUN has a much better understanding of Wind than the other way around.

Then the Windyboys attempted to unleash a weapon with galactic reaches and actually succeeded in doing so. What then?

- Tak

[charles883]

One can easily accuse the Windyboys of the same act, unless for you, thats ok.

Ive never says I Support Windy. I just says NUNS branch of the sector are not good guys either as they are bunch of lazy and corrupt arms chair military man who LOVES to use Illegal WMD to solve any problem no matter how minor it is and without care of collateral damage and consequences like destroy entire planet full of civilian alike planet full of fish people and opening Pandora box the led to NUNS willing to use WMD on planet over minor rebellion and excuses(Like General Douglas plan to use 50 nuke on China-Korea border to win the war) and without taking responsibility as they already cover up Windermere bombing and plan to cover up another in planet fish people as they plan to destroy entire planet using Dimensional Eater and cover it up as ruin explosion.

Watch this:https://youtu.be/b379aN45VEE?t=399 It similar to Wind kingdom independence war but NUNS actually went ahead and use WMD the themselves Banned first.

[CrowKenobi]

While we guess what the film's content could be, let's not rehash the discussion that closed the war thread...