Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha The MOVIE 2nd A's, Expectations and Speculation

[Keroko]

Can't recall any of the movie booklets regarding Lindy (or any booklet entries regarding Lindy, really) having been translated.

But then, Full Back does not translate to "can't fight without help" as Lutecia is demonstrating in Vivid.

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Keroko

and frankly, being able to supress a dimensional disturbance is a show of skill more than mana supply in my opinion

Different kind of specialty. Saying that "skilled" translates to all aspect of magic, support and direct combat, is like saying an superb engineer will also be an excellent marksman.

If I remember correctly, the Device Lindy was holding on the trailer was Durandal aka the one specifically designed with freezing the Tome in mind. The way I see it, that's what her role in the finale will be: setting up the extra-large containment spell that will freeze the corrupted defense program. Lindy gets to use Durandal, Chrono remains with S2U, no Device gets shafted and everybody's happy

...of course, if Lindy is on the field and Chrono is on the field, then...who's commanding the Asura? Or the one coordinating the overall allocation of forces? Not to mention someone has to be aboard to authorize the firing of a strategic weapon like the Arc-en-Ciel, and I doubt a communication officer like Amy is cleared to do that.

[Keroko]

Given how Graham is retconned out of the story, maybe they retconned Durandal to be Lindy's device?

Too many questions.

A good thing, since it leaves something to look forward too, but still

[Lycodrake]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

I think it was the same booklet that called Yuuno a Boundary mage, since he is better with barriers and not good at attack spells, either.

A booklet for movie-verse mentioned him, especially in dealing with A's?

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Demi.

In any case it would be highly unlikely, since if Lindy could make beating Signum so easy, there would be little need for Nanoha and Fate to save the day...and upgrade their devices for that matter.

Basically this. Since being able to beat signum is almost the same as being able to beat any member of the Wolkenritter the threat will be immediately over if Lindy turns out to be stronger than them.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Lindy is a frigging S-rank mage with enough power to suppress a dimensional disturbance. How would her beating Signum be 'jarring?'

Nanoha is a frigging S-rank mage who defeated a physical god and Signum was at mere seconds or minutes of scoring a victory against her xD

Unless, of course, that StrikerS manga "After Days" special was just a lie and Nanoha was being easy on Signum the whole time.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Basically this. Since being able to beat signum is almost the same as being able to beat any member of the Wolkenritter the threat will be immediately over if Lindy turns out to be stronger than them.

Flawed logic. Being able to fight or defeat a wolkenritter does not mean the end of the movie, or even the threat of the knights. Not by a longshot. The Lieze twins trapped all four of them and Nanoha and Fate at the same time, did that end the series? There's a whole legion of variables and potential plotlines that can change the way the movie goes if this fight happens.

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Nanoha is a frigging S-rank mage who defeated a physical god and Signum was at mere seconds or minutes of scoring a victory against her xD

Unless, of course, that StrikerS manga "After Days" special was just a lie and Nanoha was being easy on Signum the whole time.

There are so many things wrong with that first claim I don't even know where to start (seriously, Vivio is not a god. And Nanoha defeated her after dealing with the controler and Vita pulled the plug on her powersupply). And that's assuming you were talking about the fight between Nanoha and Vivio, if you were talking about the fight between Nanoha and Reinforce... well, I'll just assume you didn't.

But regardless, that still does not answer the question. How would Lindy being able to defeat Signum be jarring? Aside from bruising your ego, that is.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Flawed logic. Being able to fight or defeat a wolkenritter does not mean the end of the movie, or even the threat of the knights. Not by a longshot. The Lieze twins trapped all four of them and Nanoha and Fate at the same time, did that end the series? There's a whole legion of variables and potential plotlines that can change the way the movie goes if this fight happens.

That was because it was all part of the plan, the Lieze Twins provoked a confrontation and pwned everyone with pinpoint accuaracy and timing. They then used that to trigger the book so it can be sealed. I wonder if Lindy even have such an intention.

The theory holds water simply by the fact that if the Wolkenritter can be stopped that easily by Lindy alone then their threat is over, they cannot fill the pages and Nanoha and Fate won't need to get or use any upgrades at all. The Knights stand just by themselves by this point, there's no one supporting them so if they get defeated it's over.

Originally Posted by Keroko

There are so many things wrong with that first claim I don't even know where to start (seriously, Vivio is not a god. And Nanoha defeated her after dealing with the controler and Vita pulled the plug on her powersupply). And that's assuming you were talking about the fight between Nanoha and Vivio, if you were talking about the fight between Nanoha and Reinforce... well, I'll just assume you didn't.

Yep i was talking about Vivio and her semmingly godlike Sankt Kaiser powers.

Originally Posted by Keroko

But regardless, that still does not answer the question. How would Lindy being able to defeat Signum be jarring? Aside from bruising your ego, that is.

Cuase it will further break Signum's already damaged credibility as a fighter and considering she's suppossed to still be strong and threatening in A's. Seeing her being trashed easily by Lindy will be another big hit to her reputation. If that happens the Wolks should be really start considering naming a new leader xDU

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

That was because it was all part of the plan, the Lieze Twins provoked a confrontation and pwned everyone with pinpoint accuaracy and timing. They then used that to trigger the book so it can be sealed. I wonder if Lindy even have such an intention.

The theory holds water simply by the fact that if the Wolkenritter can be stopped that easily by Lindy alone then their threat is over, they cannot fill the pages and Nanoha and Fate won't need to get or use any upgrades at all. The Knights stand just by themselves by this point, there's no one supporting them so if they get defeated it's over.

Your first portion is exactly my point. Despite the Lieze twins 'beating' all the Wolkenritter, it didn't end the series because of the way the story was written.

You act like Lindy beating Signum automatically means all the wolkenritter just go "Whelp, Signum got beaten once. I guess that means we'll just surrender. No, no, nevermind the fact that we could just retreat and use guerillia tactics or basically anything besides surrendering."

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Cuase it will further break Signum's already damaged credibility as a fighter and considering she's suppossed to still be strong and threatening in A's. Seeing her being trashed easily by Lindy will be another big hit to her reputation. If that happens the Wolks should be really start considering naming a new leader xDU

Oh for crying out loud! Any loss now breaks down Signum's credibility? Well, you better brace yourself then Aki, because whether it will be to Lindy, Fate or anyone else, someone is going to be smacking some sense into Signum to get her and the other Wolkies on the good guy's side.

Seriously. Stop it. This argument makes no sense. Signum was already defeated in A's years before Force was ever written, if we follow your warped logic Signum never had any credibility to begin with.

And who ever said anything about the fight between Lindy and Signum being "easy?"

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Your first portion is exactly my point. Despite the Lieze twins 'beating' all the Wolkenritter, it didn't end the series because of the way the story was written.

That was because it's almost the end of the story and the Book was ready to awake which makes the Wolks job done and thus they outlived their usefulness in the eyes of the Twins. This time is different, if Lindy beats them then the Book won't have another exit than to fully absorb Hayate's core to follow it's programming.

Originally Posted by Keroko

You act like Lindy beating Signum automatically means all the wolkenritter just go "Whelp, Signum got beaten once. I guess that means we'll just surrender. No, no, nevermind the fact that we could just retreat and use guerillia tactics or basically anything besides surrendering."

More like "if Lindy beats Signum with ease that means the other Wolks can't hope for any chance in beating her since the strongest of them has been just trashed like that".

Originally Posted by Keroko

Oh for crying out loud! Any loss now breaks down Signum's credibility? Well, you better brace yourself then Aki, because whether it will be to Lindy, Fate or anyone else, someone is going to be smacking some sense into Signum to get her and the other Wolkies on the good guy's side.

Signum ended up in the good guys side in A's without the need of any beating, but i'm indeed embracing myself now since the movies seems to be a popularity contest which means there's no way unpopular Signum can stand a chance against fan favourite Fate, her destiny against the lightning blonde is already sealed and i'm councsious of it. It was her imminent fight with Lindy what really surprised me.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Seriously. Stop it. This argument makes no sense. Signum was already defeated in A's years before Force was ever written, if we follow your warped logic Signum never had any credibility to begin with.

It was technically "trapped" or "ambushed" rather than outright defeated. No one bested her in direct combat during the entire season. And even if we count that as a defeat it has nothing to do with Signum's power or skill and she manage to rebuold that from that point onwards during StrikerS and specialy the supplementary manga of the season (part of me started to hate the "After Days" chapter cause it was part of what delluded me into thinking she was the best knight of the series).

Originally Posted by Keroko

And who ever said anything about the fight between Lindy and Signum being "easy?"

Math. It will depend on Lindy's skill i guess. We know she already overpowers Signum in raw mana due to her over S-Rank(Lindy's rank is unknown as today but she managed to keep up with SS-Rank Precia in a Beam-O-War), so Signum's only chance to defeat her is in her capability as a fighter. If Lindy happens to be a skilled fighter Signum will be easilly fried since that means Lindy will have Chrono's fighting skills combined with Hayate's monstrous magical output which will make her an insanely broken character.

By that assumption the fight can just go two ways. Singum trashes Lindy or Lindy trashes Signum. I can't see place for an "even" confrontation.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Signum ended up in the good guys side in A's without the need of any beating, but i'm indeed embracing myself now since the movies seems to be a popularity contest which means there's no way unpopular Signum can stand a chance against fan favourite Fate, her destiny against the lightning blonde is already sealed and i'm councsious of it. It was her imminent fight with Lindy what really surprised me.

You really need to think these things through ...
The trailer clearly shows that Signums first fight with Fate ends with Fate's device sliced in two and most likely knocked into the building like in the original. There hasn't been any sneak peaks of their second fight, but I don't think most people value characters based on their fighting capabilities like you do. I don't care if Fate wins, loses, or it ends in a draw. Screen time is my only concern and that most of my favorite scenes are left in-tact.
...And where do you get the idea that the movies are a popularity contest. If you really want to use that twisted logic, then the series was a popularity contest ever since A's (the series, not the movie). And then StrikerS amplified that popularity contest tenfold.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

By that assumption the fight can just go two ways. Singum trashes Lindy or Lindy trashes Signum. I can't see place for an "even" confrontation.

Things Lindy doesn't have:
1) 100 years experience (Signum has 100s of years)
Nanoha and Fate both AAAs were pwned by someone of lower rank xD
2) Cartridge system (assuming they don't know anything about it yet).

Stalemate, probably (or if Vita interferes).

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by ZeroIchiNi

Not really.
Yuuno gets demoted the moment he showed up.
Precia goes "Oh my god what have I done!" at the end and out of the blue
Hearing that this is an in-universe production. If Fate really have her way with this movie Alicia would get revive, Precia would still be alive and they live happily ever after with everyone else.

there are other things that bugs me about this movie but I don't want to rewatch it again to find out.

Movie 2:
Yuuno not getting into any fights, oh wait it's keeping up with the last movie of him being demoted.
The reunion is no longer the Big Damn Heroes moment
The Liese twins no longer exist.
Lindy may or may not be fighting in this movie. For all I know she's just there to replace Graham in giving the Durandl to Chrono.

It's feels like History is written by the winner and this is the result we got from it.

How would this effect the PSP story if it's part of this Movie-verse?
Yuuno goes bye bye completely again.
Dark Piece Precia will either act the same and not care about what she thought at the end of the first movie. Or she'll act all nice .
No character development between the Wokeritten + Hayate with the Liese twins.
all the uncomfortable yuri (not U-D) vibes that I have been seeing in the trailers and the movies itself. Next we'll be seeing is Material-S and L hugging and blushing with each other. I'm already having trouble trying to suggest this series to friends due to this Movie-verse and Vivid.



Sure just leave the PSP-verse out of this and make their own story. That I wouldn't mind as long as there something new to it.

And I thought I was the only one who had those problems with the first movie. (I have more complaints, but I won't get into it here.)

[Keroko]

I'm really rubbing my temples in amazement how you twist everything to make your theories sound as facts here, Aki.

I mean, you basically agree that the way a story is written can change things when you said "Signum can join the good guys without getting beaten." Good. That's fine. In fact, I agree that it is possible. It all depends on how the switching of sides is written.

But then you turn around and say that Lindy beating Signum "must" mean that Lindy will do so easily and that it "must" mean that the moment this happens the series is over.

What?

I can list a dozen scenario's from the top of my head why that wouldn't happen. Here's one: Lindy defeats Signum (with great effort, stressing that one) but the Wolkenritter retreat due to Shamal unleashing the power of the book. The Wolkenritter decide that it's better to split up and hit random worlds so they have less chance of getting caught. Bam. Things happen quite similarly to what happened in the series.

Or here's another one: Signum and Lindy's battle happens at the end of the movie and is what sets of the book.

Or how about this: Lindy and Signum's battle is interrupted by the rest of the Wolkenritter before Lindy can deal the final blow (similarly to how Vita was saved by Signum in the beginning of A's), and she gets driven back by [insert Wolkie here] and the battle proceeds from there.

See? It's not that hard.

And why would the fight need to be so polarized? I know Nanoha does powerlevels, but one of the thinks StrikerS emphasized was that powerlevels aren't everything. Whether Lindy has a higher mage-rank doesn't matter, what matters is the skill of the fighters in question. And no, that does not mean sword skill > all. A skilled caster can fight on equal level with a sword fighter, and vice versa.

Bottomline: If there is going to be a fight between Lindy and Signum, Signum's possible loss (and I do say possible because we have no clue how this'll end) hardly needs something that automatically signifies the end of the movie.

[Nanya01]

Or it does signify the end of the movie because Signum injured Chrono and he couldn't fight, so Lindy went all Mama Bear on Signum...

...

I want to see Mama Bear!Lindy now.

[Justin_Brett]

Read Infinity.

[Keroko]

By the way, when did Precia and Lindy have a beam-o-war?

[Justin_Brett]

Also, I saw Aki throwing a fit about this exact same thing on TV Tropes, and he got pretty much the same responses you gave him, Kero. Who says sites can't agree on something, eh?

[Nanya01]

Despite my rather... Immense dislike of the first movie, I did like the transformation they gave Fate and the looks of the devices...

Was there any word about the Wolkenritter getting a transformation in this movie or not?

[ditto526]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

And I thought I was the only one who had those problems with the first movie. (I have more complaints, but I won't get into it here.)

I will agree that the first movie had some problems, but demoting Yuuno is not a big deal (never liked him anyways)but i will miss the twins in the second movie, i am also looking forward to seeing Lindy in action, and last but not least, as far as the yuri aspect goes, they are giving the fans what they want, as this has always been hinted at, but also so has the Yuuno, Nanoha aspect, so not a big deal in my Mind

[Lycodrake]

Originally Posted by ditto526

I will agree that the first movie had some problems, but demoting Yuuno is not a big deal (never liked him anyways)but i will miss the twins in the second movie, i am also looking forward to seeing Lindy in action, and last but not least, as far as the yuri aspect goes, they are giving the fans what they want, as this has always been hinted at, but also so has the Yuuno, Nanoha aspect, so not a big deal in my Mind

...see, having seen the first movie, I call BS on cutting Yuuno out entirely being "not a big deal". Someone had to teach Nanoha magic, and RH certainly doesn't have the functions for anything of the sort. Simulated battle doesn't count, since that requires actually knowing the spells in the first place.
So saying that makes 0 sense to me. :/