Toradora! - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Nukerjsr]

HOW DO THESE EPISODES KEEP GETTING BETTER?! SERIOUSLY?!

I just could not believe how all of this stuff was pulled off in this one episode. I'm finally relieved that some synapses went off in Ryuuji's brain when stuff happened. You could really feel for him when you could see Minori wearing the hair clip and she claimed it as something "She would always keep forever." And he realizes the confession at the end...he's going to make it. He's going to turn into an awesome male lead! Plus, we really got to see his cleaning obsession first hand.

Yeah, this is a 10 from me. It was just so dramatic and done so well. I didn't expect it to all be wrapped up in one episode, but I just can't believe they could pull it off. All of that tension from all these characters. Especially since a gag character like Noto got into such an argument. It's really interesting to see the boys from Toradora! and the girls from Toradora! interact.

While several people are divided (or have divided from this episode) with Ami, I really loved her scenes. Particularly her one leading up to the fight. You could see her feeling guilty about what she did to Minori and how it affected Ryuuji. She REALLY wants to be with him in some form be it love or friendship, but you can't help but like that characteristic about her. She was incredibly brutal towards Minori, but you can't really blame her because she was disguising against everyone.

To those talking about a pseudo-confession, you could still see it there. Between the tension during the "girl-talk" you know at any moment that Maya or Nanako could of said something to confirm Ami's feelings.

You have to give the writers credit because of how this whole situation draws in everyone. Ami's friends are affected along with Ryuuji's and it's amazing to know about there situation. Maya is really upset because of her affection with Yuusaku while Noto and Haruta see it in a different way. Kitamura himself is really surprised at what happened.

Oh...this show is a gravy train riding on biscuit wheels...@_@

[Nenkitsune]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

eh i saw it as she was just looking away with disgust...maybe she knew, but my thoughts, if i WERE ami, would be, "why is taiga hiding anyway?". There's no legit reason for her to be purposefully hiding from them, so i don't see why ami would definitely jump to that conclusion...idk

that's the thing though. Ami doesn't really seem to think like that. Instead, if she KNOWS that someone is in there, she's going to somehow find a way to convey information to them in a subtle way (which she does a good job of) I mean, Taiga's towel and slippers were still there, NO ONE mentioned them, but Ami's got quite the sharp eye for things like that.

anyways, I really hope JC Staff does a good job and keeps this epic momentum going till the end. It'll be a real let down if the ending of the series isn't better than the ending of this episode.

[shojie]

i like the argument between Minori and Ami. It can't be compared to the fight happened between Taiga and Sumire..Coz the fight bet. Minori and Ami, includes their own feelings..For Minori that she's angry coz Ami always read her. And shot and bulleyes her weak point about her true feelings that she is trying to hide from Taiga and Ryuuji..And for Ami, that she's disgusted at Minori coz Minori always faking. or just maybe they hate each other coz they are the same. they see each others feelings for someone, ( that's why Minori said to Ami, " you are just pissed off because you're jealous!")and yet can't tell it to that person.Ami wants Minori to tell at Ryuuji's face that she doesn't like him so that Ryuuji will not hope anymore and won't continue to give efforts to aim her. That was a damned good dare that lead to a fight..

Well, i can say that this anime is full of sacrifices..Taiga trying to stop her love just for the sake of Minori and Ryuuji..and then Minori hides her feelings for the sake of Taiga..and the theres Ami in the picture that can't shows her feelings to Ryuuji coz she knows Ryuuji love someone, and she wants Ryuuji to figure it out who he really loves..

and i am really touched to Taiga's said to Ryuuji..that she really thought it was kitamura..coz its really hard.how can you easily forget and take away your feelings for someone when that person always there beside you and care for you?and when you go to school, you walk w/ him see him at class..and his house is just a neighborhood..and you have both circle of friends..geez, its really hard even with the help and bless of the God of Broken Hearts,haha..

though, i gave this episode a 9 for an excellent drama, fight and unknowingly confession..

[SakuraAyanami]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Why don't we argue about how convient it was for the hairpin to shine in the middle of the night during a damn blizzard?

What about the fact that Kushieda got punched so hard that the hairpin was ripped from her hair and landed FIFTY FEET AWAY from the fight?

Shit.

The answer is simple .................................................. .....................

Spoiler for answer:

A wizard did it

[Ultenth]

Ami hates Minorin because she willingly chooses to give up something that Ami would love to have, Ryuuji's love. It's the classic feeling of jealousy, mixed with anger that they would refuse what you would give anything for.

And yes, I thought it was fairly obvious that Ami knew that Taiga was somewhere nearby where she could here, if you didn't get that you simply either weren't paying attention, or are as thickheaded as most male anime lead characters.

[puppygod]

Oh, come on. Taiga slippers are near doors. Her wet towel is on the floor. She left bath earlier than other girls. There is no sign of her in the room. Which one is more rational explanation:
A. she put on other shoes and went somewhere, let's look for her
B. she's hiding in the closet for unknown purpose
C. she was kidnapped by aliens

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by puppygod

Oh, come on. Taiga slippers are near doors. Her wet towel is on the floor. She left bath earlier than other girls. There is no sign of her in the room. Which one is more rational explanation:
A. she put on other shoes and went somewhere, let's look for her
B. she's hiding in the closet for unknown purpose
C. she was kidnapped by aliens

There is one flaw in your logic, a Ryokan that provides slippers for indoors asks to take off their shoes at the main enterance of the building not at their repsective rooms.

[BetoJR]

I, for one, would think the most logical explanation to be that she changed shoes and went somewhere else. Really, hiding in closets is not something most people would do. Even in anime.

Anyway, this was a seriously good episode. Even being spoiled to the whole fight and sorta-confession, this was quite good storytelling. 10/10 from me.

[4get]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

Some feedback on Coalguys' subs:

Also from their subs, the moment I cannot stop wondering about: ~11:40

Minori sniffing something that looks like jar of cream. Then camera angle changes so it is not clear what is she doing with this yummy-scented thing, and Nanako tells her .. what?

Spoiler for Kushieda, that's impossible:

This line was partially overlapped with Maya's, it's hard to hear distinctly, but it sounds more like this:

[Kushieda sore bodi kuriimu da yo]

「櫛枝　それ　ボディ クリーム だ よ」

Kushieda, this cake is a lie! this is body cream.

So looks like Minorin's airhead level at that moment just went over 9000 and she was trying to chew on cream? %)

[BetoJR]

That would have been funny if put on the subs...

[Peanutbutter]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

I, for one, would think the most logical explanation to be that she changed shoes and went somewhere else. Really, hiding in closets is not something most people would do. Even in anime.

I think in Japan, real life or anime, if one has to choose between disobeying culture norms and doing the unexpected (while not breaking any cultural norms), one would do the unexpected.

As said, most likely, everyone's shoes may have already been deposited at the entrance of the place they're staying. And why would anyone bring a second pair of shoes?

Maybe I am reading too much into this. Still, I'm kinda curious to how the light novel addressed this part. But I dun wanna go into the novel thread as I may spoil myself on other future stuff.

[puppygod]

I just realized why dinner scene seemed strange...

Spoiler for pic:

They so do look like inmates in prison drama:


Next week on Prison Break...

[Bordix]

Lol, prison break and looks like their plain to escape

Spoiler for :

FAILED....(god, I can't stop laughing at their expressions here )

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by Peanutbutter003

As said, most likely, everyone's shoes may have already been deposited at the entrance of the place they're staying. And why would anyone bring a second pair of shoes?

Right... You've never been on a trip with girls, like, ever?
Some girls pack two pairs of shoes for each day they'll be gone - I don't really think it would be all that different in Japan, even with all the cultural baggage involved.

Like some said before, maybe we are reading too much into it. As for the towel on the ground, however... they wouldn't have focused so much on it if it didn't mean anything.

[typhonsentra]

It really is a lot of fun going through the show frame by frame analyzing all the subtle body language. JC Staff did such a fantastic job in all the timing with the dialogue. One particular scene I liked that I don't think has been mentioned yet is when Minori and Ryuuji are alone talking in the lounge area, Minori mentions that Taiga liking Kitamura is just a misunderstanding. When Ryuuji tells her that she really does like him his arm tenses up. It's a shame that angle wasn't ever explored more, him having to deal with the idea of her leaving him for someone else more seriously.

[Fran~]

Totally randon comment: Haruta is win... cocky when he was skiing, caring with Taka-chan at the dinner and when he said that if he were a girl, he would never rejected him and he is totally clueless about EVERYTHING...

Some happy life he has...

[Ryuou]

Yeah Haruta is pretty funny. About the whole Ami knowing Taiga was in the closet thing, I don't know, I didn't really get that impression. It is possible to leave the room without one's slippers for some reason. What that would be, I’m not sure. Depends on the person.

And I think I've been to that ski resort. I'll have to look at it again to tell which one it is exactly, but I'm fairly sure I've been there.

Edit: Hmm...I'm not sure if I've stayed at that hotel before (hard to tell with one picture/one angle), but it looks like they went to Shiga Kogen, my favorite place to snowboard. I love it there.

[k'2]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Totally randon comment: Haruta is win... cocky when he was skiing, caring with Taka-chan at the dinner and when he said that if he were a girl, he would never rejected him and he is totally clueless about EVERYTHING...

Some happy life he has...

yeah Ignorance Is Bliss .....LOL

[puretsundere]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Totally randon comment: Haruta is win... cocky when he was skiing, caring with Taka-chan at the dinner and when he said that if he were a girl, he would never rejected him and he is totally clueless about EVERYTHING...

Some happy life he has...

True, true. He does have a very good, happy life. I definitely would like it if Nanako or Maya ended up with Haruta. He deserves to end up with someone, right?

[Sinestra]

I must say i didnt expect a head on collision between Ami and Minorin it really is like being back in high school again. I can see why Minorin got upset and as i predicted Ami holding in all those feelings for Ryu and watching events unfold around her finally took its tool. To the fact that it came to blows this is the second fight between girls we have seen in Toradora it was not vicious as Taiga's fight but shit they did some damage. Minorin slapped Ami like shes a 2 cent whore. Minorin did make a good statement she Ami was jealous which is true to a certain extent. This make me wonder has Minorin known that Ami likes Ryu all this time but never said anything. Ami needs to get her feelings out before she explodes. We could see this coming though from the conversation when everyone was hiding in the closet. Many a word was spoken and it was easy to catch on to what Ami was implying.

The drama just continued to build leading to Taiga going missing. Leave it to Taiga to make a somewhat confession about her loving Ryu while in a daze with a head injury of course she mistook who she was talking. But her line about how Ryu would come and save her shows not only how much trust she has in him but she still relies on him as well. Ryu has cared for Taiga for a good while now he just did not recognize he feelings. I stated once more that I believed that at some point Ryu was more in love with the idea of liking Minorin than actually liking her. Matters of the heart are complicated especially if you dont know why you are feeling a certain way. It took something to jolt Taiga to acknowledge her feelings for Ryu and I feel Ryu just had his moment of awakening.

At his rate i dont know if Ryu will ever know what Ami feels for him unless she steps up and puts herself out there. Even if she is rejected if she does not get those feelings out they will fester and she will become more bitter and frustrated.

good episode things are wrapping up nicely we are in a full stride now. Lets see how Ryu reacts now that he knows Taiga's feelings for him.

9/10