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Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2017-07-03, 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sides

Yeah, this season was really good. I'm shocked that a lot of people have stopped watching the show..

I stopped watching because they spent too long making Peter Capaldi the focus. I have no interest in episode after episode of the Doctor wondering if he should help people. Obviously he eventually got over it and started getting on with the job, but don't blame the rest of us if we are not interested in watching a doctor who didn't know what he wanted to do.

The doctor is a hero, don't waste time trying to argue otherwise. We had literally 11+1 versions of him being heroic and it is boring to even contemplate trying to make him doubt himself.

BPD Renegade · 2017-07-03, 19:24

I've been watching, just not commenting.

The season finale was good, and the season definitely had its moments, but there were too many times where I was pulled out of it by the "in your face" pseudo-lecturing each episode. Some of the scenes were so forcibly PC, it dragged me out of the immersion. I liked Bill as a companion, but there were moments where it was clear the show was making political commentary about sexuality and acceptance and shoving it down the viewers' throats. The series was best when it didn't make a point of calling attention to the topic as something different and let it progress naturally. Bill and Heather's meeting and feelings towards each other in the first and last episodes were sweet and didn't seem strange at all. The misunderstanding by her landlord in "Extremis" was amusing. The cave scene with the Ninth Legion, however, felt awkward as hell.

I also didn't really enjoy the Master/Missy redemption subplot. Aside from leading up to the season finale and that twist, it didn't feel like there was a real point to it. The season finale and practically every episode could have happened without her existence or the vault, and while their ending was poetic, I don't think it was really worth leading us on for an entire season.

One thing I'd like to see next season is a return to the ship to rescue Nardole. It seems kind of cruel to leave him there as a babysitter with the Cybermen coming back in the future. Gonna miss him. The little guy grew on me.

GDB · 2017-07-03, 19:31

Implication is new showrunner wants to be less self-referential. I assume this means like seasons 5 and 6 where there were almost no references outside of its own "continuity", unlike Tenant (referencing Eccelson and old Who) and Capaldi (referencing basically everything).

MrTerrorist · 2017-07-16, 12:06

The 13th Doctor has been revealed!

GDB · 2017-07-16, 12:36

Well, not expecting this "experiment" to last too long. People accepted the Master doing it because he's not the main character, but doing it to the main character just feels like they're forcing "PC" rather than staying true to what fans want and the character as a whole.

Surprised though that they seem to think going even FURTHER away from the success of Tenant and Smith is the answer to "why are ratings going down?"

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2017-07-16, 14:21

It is most certainly a risk. But I guess it is something that is always done when trouble is afoot and not when things are going fine.

I don't mind the idea of a female doctor, my complaint is I am not sure this is done with the right mindset. The fact is those who demand a female doctor are mostly not even fans of the show. If they were hoping that the viewership would increase just from this, they are mistaken.

Ithekro · 2017-07-16, 15:07

I don't know, that smile at the end reminded me of Matt Smith's smile when looking at the redone TARDIS.

The idea of the Doctor being a woman is not new. They even did it for comedy in 1999 (written by Steven Moffat). The rumors that the next Doctor would be a woman I think started before Matt Smith was even cast....so 8 years ago for that concept, and nearly 20 for the idea that the Doctor could be a woman regardless. And that's not even getting into Romana and her rapid fire regenerations back around 1977 to all bipeds big and small, or blue, or possibly even a bearded lady if I recall correctly.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2017-07-16, 16:22

My opinion remained, that the best time for the Doctor to be a woman is when no one would care about it.

But well, the die is cast, what matters now as always, is the quality of the stories. But regardless there will be no sudden increase in audience by changing genders. That's never how it works.

Sides · 2017-07-16, 23:10

Hmm I don't mind a female doctor, but i wasn't expecting someone average looking. Nothing against Jodie Whittaker, but she is agood actress, but really normal looking.
BTW I am expecting menstruation and menopause jokes from now on!

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2017-07-17, 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sides

Hmm I don't mind a female doctor, but i wasn't expecting someone average looking. Nothing against Jodie Whittaker, but she is agood actress, but really normal looking.
BTW I am expecting menstruation and menopause jokes from now on!

I think they deliberately didn't want to hire anyone who is overtly attractive.

The fact is rule 34 will win no matter what, but BBC is trying not to help it too much. Regardless one of the most important requirements of a Doctor is being assertive when needed, and being too attractive gets in the way of that.

Doctor Who knows how to hire attractive people if they wanted to, as seen in the selection of female companions. So in this case they got exactly what they actually wanted.

Sheba · 2017-07-17, 02:24

Just what we needed, people going smug over the decision!

But would you think those people would celebrate it and be happy with it? WRONG.

Look, people were often, if not ALWAYS, unhappy with the Doctor changing actors. I mean, I really did get into it during Tennant days. I groaned a little when he got replaced by Smith. But Smith eventually grew on me. Capaldi is a little different because I knew the guy way before and wished he was as foul-mouthed. Was it the right time to cast a woman as the Doctor? I share the same sentiment as VCV. It should have been done before, or after this. WHEN WE STOP MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT GENDERS. When people will fucking stop whining about girls not having girls who kick ass or role models when they did since forever.

I just hope the actress step up her game and get into the Doctor's shoes very well. And that the show keep everything that made it so British. (hard to top space-worthy modded Spitfires here, for me)

PS: I wish we could round up all those fcking pretentious and smug hipsters who are pushing that narrative and send them all to Venus for forced labor.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2017-07-17, 02:47

Don't forget that the 13th doctor would also have to deal with a new set of writers. So we are not just dealing with a new doctor, but a new writing team as well. One way or another, things will be different. The only question is if people will blame the actress or the writer for what they don't like.

Ithekro · 2017-07-17, 05:21

Depends on what is perceived as being wrong. If the story is bad, it will be the writer fault, and several people are already skeptical about Chibnall. If the Doctor doesn't feel like the Doctor, they'll blame the actor unless the reasoning appear plot related, than it will be Chibnall again.

So far, no one has failed to be The Doctor in terms of the actors playing the part. I don't know how forgiving fans are about that, but that's an impressive amount of casting in no one cast as the Doctor has failed to pull it off. Even people who you wouldn't think as the Doctor can pull it off, like Richard E, Grant (the 2003 Ninth Doctor as well as the 1999 comedy bit version), and Jenna Coleman, who wasn't actually the Doctor, put could easily pull off the roll of Clara impersonating the Doctor to the point where she might as well have been the Doctor in a few episodes.

GDB · 2017-07-17, 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Don't forget that the 13th doctor would also have to deal with a new set of writers. So we are not just dealing with a new doctor, but a new writing team as well. One way or another, things will be different. The only question is if people will blame the actress or the writer for what they don't like.

Is it actually a new writing team? I thought only the showrunner was being replaced.

Ulin · 2017-07-17, 06:26

jenna Coleman would have been a wonderful doctor

I don't know, I don't want the whole show be about how the doctor is now a woman. If it is something that is as important as him/her being a redhead, everything will be fine

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2017-07-17, 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

the 2003 Ninth Doctor as well as the 1999 comedy bit version)

Talking about that, people have definitely noticed that in the 1999 skit, the 13th Doctor was a blond woman. And it was most unusual that BBC officially released the entire skit on their Doctor Who youtube Channel just in March of this year.

Sides · 2017-07-17, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I think they deliberately didn't want to hire anyone who is overtly attractive.

I was hoping they casted someone more unique, not attractive. My favourite was Tilda Swinton. To me the doctor was always someone that stood out, not average or "good looking", but somehow unique.

Dextro · 2017-07-17, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulin

jenna Coleman would have been a wonderful doctor

I don't know, I don't want the whole show be about how the doctor is now a woman. If it is something that is as important as him/her being a redhead, everything will be fine

I honestly think Jenna Coleman would have made a better Doctor than she did a companion.

GDB · 2017-07-17, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Talking about that, people have definitely noticed that in the 1999 skit, the 13th Doctor was a blond woman. And it was most unusual that BBC officially released the entire skit on their Doctor Who youtube Channel just in March of this year.

This actually makes me a LOT less apprehensive about this decision. I still don't trust the writers with how they've handled the majority of the last 4 seasons, but this makes the worry lower.

quigonkenny · 2017-07-18, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sides

I was hoping they casted someone more unique, not attractive. My favourite was Tilda Swinton. To me the doctor was always someone that stood out, not average or "good looking", but somehow unique.

Holy shit, Tilda Swinton as the Doctor... That would be glorious...

2017-07-16, 12:06	Link #624
MrTerrorist Takao Tsundere Cruiser Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Classified	The 13th Doctor has been revealed! <p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/nryiwb1gcBA">watch on YouTube</a>.</p> __________________

2017-07-16, 14:21	Link #626
Vallen Chaos Valiant Logician and Romantic Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Within my mind Age: 43	It is most certainly a risk. But I guess it is something that is always done when trouble is afoot and not when things are going fine. I don't mind the idea of a female doctor, my complaint is I am not sure this is done with the right mindset. The fact is those who demand a female doctor are mostly not even fans of the show. If they were hoping that the viewership would increase just from this, they are mistaken. __________________

2017-07-16, 15:07	Link #627
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	I don't know, that smile at the end reminded me of Matt Smith's smile when looking at the redone TARDIS. The idea of the Doctor being a woman is not new. They even did it for comedy in 1999 (written by Steven Moffat). The rumors that the next Doctor would be a woman I think started before Matt Smith was even cast....so 8 years ago for that concept, and nearly 20 for the idea that the Doctor could be a woman regardless. And that's not even getting into Romana and her rapid fire regenerations back around 1977 to all bipeds big and small, or blue, or possibly even a bearded lady if I recall correctly. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2017-07-16 at 15:45.

2017-07-16, 16:22	Link #628
Vallen Chaos Valiant Logician and Romantic Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Within my mind Age: 43	My opinion remained, that the best time for the Doctor to be a woman is when no one would care about it. But well, the die is cast, what matters now as always, is the quality of the stories. But regardless there will be no sudden increase in audience by changing genders. That's never how it works. __________________

2017-07-17, 02:47	Link #632
Vallen Chaos Valiant Logician and Romantic Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Within my mind Age: 43	Don't forget that the 13th doctor would also have to deal with a new set of writers. So we are not just dealing with a new doctor, but a new writing team as well. One way or another, things will be different. The only question is if people will blame the actress or the writer for what they don't like. __________________

2017-07-03, 19:24	Link #622
BPD Renegade Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: at port, docked	I've been watching, just not commenting. The season finale was good, and the season definitely had its moments, but there were too many times where I was pulled out of it by the "in your face" pseudo-lecturing each episode. Some of the scenes were so forcibly PC, it dragged me out of the immersion. I liked Bill as a companion, but there were moments where it was clear the show was making political commentary about sexuality and acceptance and shoving it down the viewers' throats. The series was best when it didn't make a point of calling attention to the topic as something different and let it progress naturally. Bill and Heather's meeting and feelings towards each other in the first and last episodes were sweet and didn't seem strange at all. The misunderstanding by her landlord in "Extremis" was amusing. The cave scene with the Ninth Legion, however, felt awkward as hell. I also didn't really enjoy the Master/Missy redemption subplot. Aside from leading up to the season finale and that twist, it didn't feel like there was a real point to it. The season finale and practically every episode could have happened without her existence or the vault, and while their ending was poetic, I don't think it was really worth leading us on for an entire season. One thing I'd like to see next season is a return to the ship to rescue Nardole. It seems kind of cruel to leave him there as a babysitter with the Cybermen coming back in the future. Gonna miss him. The little guy grew on me.

2017-07-03, 19:31	Link #623
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	Implication is new showrunner wants to be less self-referential. I assume this means like seasons 5 and 6 where there were almost no references outside of its own "continuity", unlike Tenant (referencing Eccelson and old Who) and Capaldi (referencing basically everything).

2017-07-16, 12:36	Link #625
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	Well, not expecting this "experiment" to last too long. People accepted the Master doing it because he's not the main character, but doing it to the main character just feels like they're forcing "PC" rather than staying true to what fans want and the character as a whole. Surprised though that they seem to think going even FURTHER away from the success of Tenant and Smith is the answer to "why are ratings going down?"

2017-07-16, 23:10	Link #629
Sides Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Edinburgh Age: 42	Hmm I don't mind a female doctor, but i wasn't expecting someone average looking. Nothing against Jodie Whittaker, but she is agood actress, but really normal looking. BTW I am expecting menstruation and menopause jokes from now on!

2017-07-17, 02:24	Link #631
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	Just what we needed, people going smug over the decision! But would you think those people would celebrate it and be happy with it? WRONG. Look, people were often, if not ALWAYS, unhappy with the Doctor changing actors. I mean, I really did get into it during Tennant days. I groaned a little when he got replaced by Smith. But Smith eventually grew on me. Capaldi is a little different because I knew the guy way before and wished he was as foul-mouthed. Was it the right time to cast a woman as the Doctor? I share the same sentiment as VCV. It should have been done before, or after this. WHEN WE STOP MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT GENDERS. When people will fucking stop whining about girls not having girls who kick ass or role models when they did since forever. I just hope the actress step up her game and get into the Doctor's shoes very well. And that the show keep everything that made it so British. (hard to top space-worthy modded Spitfires here, for me) PS: I wish we could round up all those fcking pretentious and smug hipsters who are pushing that narrative and send them all to Venus for forced labor.

2017-07-17, 05:21	Link #633
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Depends on what is perceived as being wrong. If the story is bad, it will be the writer fault, and several people are already skeptical about Chibnall. If the Doctor doesn't feel like the Doctor, they'll blame the actor unless the reasoning appear plot related, than it will be Chibnall again. So far, no one has failed to be The Doctor in terms of the actors playing the part. I don't know how forgiving fans are about that, but that's an impressive amount of casting in no one cast as the Doctor has failed to pull it off. Even people who you wouldn't think as the Doctor can pull it off, like Richard E, Grant (the 2003 Ninth Doctor as well as the 1999 comedy bit version), and Jenna Coleman, who wasn't actually the Doctor, put could easily pull off the roll of Clara impersonating the Doctor to the point where she might as well have been the Doctor in a few episodes. __________________

2017-07-17, 06:26	Link #635
Ulin Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Spain	jenna Coleman would have been a wonderful doctor I don't know, I don't want the whole show be about how the doctor is now a woman. If it is something that is as important as him/her being a redhead, everything will be fine